Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 7th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We are finished.

I'm going to try to do a one-minute question for each party. That will finish up with this. You will have one minute for a question and answer.

Mr. Lukiwski.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

So I completely understand and the analysts understand, Mr. Rae, does what you're suggesting have the acceptance of Ms. Chow?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

No it doesn't.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

It does not.

So you two are not in agreement with Mr. Rae's proposal.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Can I explain why?

[An hon. member]

Probably not.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

First, I just want to make sure, you're not in agreement there. Also, your subsequent suggestions, Ms. Chow, do not have the agreement of Ms. Bennett. So we don't have any consensus here among the MPs on what we call the domino effect. That's important.

Just so you understand what we have been doing with the reports that we've been writing, if there is consensus among the members of Parliament regarding changes, we as a committee then tend to recommend those changes to the individual boundaries commissions. If we cannot find consensus among the MPs in question, all we can do is report what you are suggesting and allow the boundaries commissioners themselves to make the final determination.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

What I am suggesting, in a sense, is that the commissioners could judge on its own merit the community of interest in the St. Lawrence Market. They could then decide if we need to find other territory that Toronto Centre gives up. I'm suggesting there's one territory that could be given up without having any dramatic effect on anybody, but that's as far as it goes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Scott, a quick one minute question if you could, please.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Just very quickly, I wanted to follow up on what Mr. Rae was just saying. Do we have any sense of the rough population between Front and Gardiner for the market, and for the area that you were suggesting might be a semi-swap of population?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

My problem is that even though I agree in principle with what Mr. Rae is suggesting, I have to pick up a little area on the southern portion of the riding. By picking up that little area, you change the population. Yes, I do have the numbers. By changing the numbers, I need to do something else up here.

Since I'm picking up here—there's a substantial amount of condos in the area that he wants to pick up—I need something else on the north side, which is why I've gone off to Rosedale and taken out Rosedale, and gone off on the west side.

I do have the statistical numbers. If we are using this chart, this map, this boundary, the numbers work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Could I get you to submit those?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Yes, I have the numbers. I believe my staff submitted a document. It's just not translated yet. It was submitted in English.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Monsieur Dion, a quick one minute question and answer, please.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Chow, what consultations did you have?

Madam Bennett had consultations. In her letter written to us, she said that there was resistance to the idea regarding the midtown riding of St. Paul's, with the extension from Eglinton and Dufferin in the northwest to the foot of Bayview to the southeast. People do not accept Vaughan Road as a boundary, and the removal of Wychwood Barns was seen as taking the heart out of that newly vibrant neighbourhood.

What consultations did you have to be sure that this would not come as a surprise to many people?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

My problem was that when the commission came to town, Ms. Bennett and I actually supported each other's submission. Her riding was changed and my riding was changed. We supported each other and made a submission. Unfortunately, the commission took her advice. Because my riding is so huge, they chopped the southern end and changed the boundaries. I ended up getting Rosedale.

As a result, I wasn't able to have enough time, other than talking to Ms. Bennett, to talk to the rest of the association. I spoke to some individuals. Some of these individuals gave me this information, which is a long 10-page submission, that I'm putting in front of you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We are finished with this group. Thank you very much for coming today. We've got a lot of information and a lot of questions.

We will suspend for a few minutes while we change the panels.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We're still here on the redistribution for Ontario. We have another great panel of guests with us today. You'll each have five minutes or less to state your points and then we will ask you questions.

Mr. Devolin, I understand you're going first. When you're done, please point out who's going next.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Good morning.

Is this where I come to get flood relief for Minden? Am I in the right place?

First of all, I'd like to thank the commission for the changes they made between the first and second draft. My riding, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, is an amalgam of four different upper tiers. I have all of the city of Kawartha Lakes, formerly known as Victoria County. I have all of the county of Haliburton, and I have the township of Brock, which is in Durham Region. That's about 85% of my riding. The proposal is they stay in the riding and nothing changes, and they are all extremely happy. This is in contrast to the first draft, which had cut my riding in half.

The only piece I want to talk to you about today is the fourth piece of my riding. I have three townships in the county of Peterborough: North Kawartha, Trent Lakes, and Cavan Monaghan. Under the proposal that is currently on the table, two of those, the smaller two, are being taken out of my riding and added to Peterborough—

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

We're just wondering, we don't really have comparisons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

To see what the old riding looks like?

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Can we do it?

[A voice]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes, we'll do it.

Carry on while we're bringing it up for the guests.