Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 11th, 2023

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I did very much so.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

This is a role model, somebody you looked up to, somebody you aspired to be—am I correct?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That's correct.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

When somebody, particularly a family member, reached out to you and asked you to provide a video to your role model thanking him for his service, and you were under the impression or given assurances that it wouldn't be used publicly, is it fair to say that it seemed at the time, in the moment, to make complete sense to do that?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes. It did in terms of the context, but I also need to say, Mr. Gerretsen, through you, Madam Chair, that I did make mistakes. I should not have recorded that message in my Speaker's robes, certainly not in the Speaker's chambers, and, frankly, when I reflect upon how this could be seen as affecting my partisanship, I shouldn't have recorded the video at all.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Finally, I heard you say earlier in response to a question that you filmed the video between two meetings.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

It was a rushed deal with the assistance of—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You were in your Speaker's robes. You were at a meeting. You were on your way to another meeting. You said, “I need to film this video for my role model”—that's not what you said but I'm paraphrasing—so you went into your office, the video was filmed in one take and it was done. You thought that was the end of it. You thought it was going to be for a very private audience to thank your role model and then you departed to go to your next meeting.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That is correct.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

We will now go to Madame DeBellefeuille.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Fergus, you told Mr. Julian that everything happened very quickly and that you made your video between two meetings without giving it too much thought.

From what I understand, your employees didn't give it much thought either. You consulted no one because you didn't have the presence of mind to think that might not be something you should do. It happened quickly.

I'm sure you'll understand that, to my mind, you need to set an example as Speaker of the House. However, in my opinion, what happened doesn't augur well for the future because your work as Speaker constantly involves making quick decisions amid various stressful events and always drawing on the best advice. You must be above the fray. From what I see here, there was no thinking on your part.

What impresses me most is what followed, and I'd like to get an answer from you on this. How do you explain why you waited a week before apologizing for that serious mistake? It took a week for you to think, reflect and accept the fact that you had made a serious mistake that undermined the trust of the House. Can you explain that significant delay to me?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I believe I apologized at the first opportunity. I told everyone I spoke to that I had made a mistake and that I was apologizing for it. I told every parliamentarian that it never should have happened, and I apologized for it.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Pardon me, you said you apologized, but that can't be interpreted in the same way as what you're saying today. That has nothing to do with the apology you're making this morning. Now you are apologizing for making a mistake and saying you never should have done it.

Unless I'm mistaken, we didn't receive that kind of apology in the House. In your apology this morning, you fully acknowledged the serious error of judgment that you made, which is in no way comparable to what you said in the House. As far as I'm concerned, at any rate, it's as though you understood later the significance of what happened. There's a sign, if you have—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Please answer very briefly, Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I took the first opportunity, when I woke up Monday morning, to apologize to the House for my actions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Mr. Fergus.

Go ahead, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

This is saddening for Canadians.

I need to understand, having gone through what we consider to be a campaign for speakership. We have Speakers who offer themselves. They all talk about the role of the Speaker. They talk about impartiality and non-partisanship. I'm interested in your perception of impartiality and non-partisanship prior to your election and what you did following that to ensure a full understanding of impartiality and non-partisanship in terms of precedence.

I was disturbed by Mr. Janse's testimony that he had not been consulted in any way about the filming of the video. I need to know and I think Canadians need to know what steps you took after your election to ensure that the comments you made, which were very strong about impartiality and non-partisanship, were kept moving forward?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Madam Chair, through you, thanks very much to Mr. Julian for this question.

Every action or ruling that I've made in the House, whether they were from the chair or reflected in writing, were all based on consultation with our clerks' team to make sure that they were neutral, that they were impartial and that they were in the best traditions of the House.

Quite often you will have seen me stand up in question period and even consult the table to make sure that the decisions that I had rendered were impartial and that they were a reflection of the best of our parliamentary traditions. That was always done. Every decision that I made was in that regard.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I don't understand why you didn't consult the Clerk and the legal team that we have for the House of Commons about the video. Why did you not do that?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That is a mistake that is clearly my fault. I saw this at the time...it has taken me to understand how this does not do well. However, I took it at the time that I was making a tribute video to somebody who was leaving a post, someone I had had a deep relationship with in the past.

I'm sorry I made that video. I acknowledge it was a mistake, and that is why I have set up processes to make sure that it can't happen again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

We're going to finish the second round of five minutes.

After Mr. Berthold and Mrs. Romanado, we will begin a round of questions in which each person will have six minutes of speaking time.

Mr. Berthold, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Fergus. We are here today to talk about judgment. I believe that's what has held our attention. The House has previously acknowledged this. I'm going to read the first part of the motion that was unanimously passed by all parties.

That the Speaker's public participation at an Ontario Liberal Party convention, as Speaker of the House of Commons, constitute a breach of the tradition and expectation of impartiality required for that high office, constituting a serious error of judgment which undermines the trust required to discharge his duties and responsibilities…

All 338 members voted in favour of this motion. How can you exercise proper judgment and fail to accept the verdict of 338 members?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much for that question.

Mr. Berthold, I acknowledge my lack of judgment in filming that video. That's why I'm here to apologize and to discuss the actions I will now be taking to ensure that I don't make this kind of mistake again and also—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I want to talk about the past. With your permission, I want to discuss the incident. Is this the first time your judgment has been questioned this way?