Evidence of meeting #98 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fergus.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
It's unusual but not completely unprecedented.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Eric Duncan Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Was there any note of why the decision was made for last week and planned for last week, for those dates? The reason I ask is that in January, when our House is not sitting and the U.S. House is in session there, there are several weeks there that would not have provided a conflict.
Was there any discussion about moving that to January or a time when the House was not sitting?
9:05 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
I don't know how much discussion there was because I think there was an event that the Speaker had already planned on attending, so the idea was to build a visit around that. Again, those are perhaps questions better put to the Speaker at 9:30.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Eric Duncan Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Mr. Fergus attended a retirement party of some sort in Washington, D.C., for a Claus Gramckow. Were you aware of the Speaker's attendance as part of the itinerary for that trip?
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Eric Duncan Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Did you see the video or the excerpts of the comments he made at that party?
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Eric Duncan Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
I'll just remind everyone that he was speaking about his history once again in a partisan fashion, about his time as president of the Young Liberals and his election and how he was going to win that election back in that day, and sharing how Mr. Gramckow was connected in all that.
You mentioned the video was inappropriate in his role as Speaker. I would assume that his comments during a Speaker delegation to Washington, D.C., speaking at an event, public or a video, would be inappropriate.
Would you say that's another inappropriate comment made by the Speaker on this trip?
9:05 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
Excuse me, Mr. Duncan. I didn't say that the video was inappropriate. I said that I would have advised not to do the video—
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Eric Duncan Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
I'll reword my question to say you said he should not have done it. Knowing this, would your advice have been that he should not have made these comments at this event as well?
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Eric Duncan Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
If I were just to conclude on this, had you known ahead of time, you would have advised him not to make the video for the Ontario Liberal Party convention.
Would you have advised him not to make the comments that he made in his interview with The Globe and Mail, where he cited the Ontario Liberal Party as “our party”? Would you have advised him not to do that or to say that?
9:05 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
Again, normally we're not sought for advice in terms of political or party events. Again, I've never really been sought for counsel on a question like that. It's really hard to answer, to be perfectly honest, Mr. Duncan.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Eric Duncan Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
I think what I would say there, where I'm going, is that it's not only the advice to not partake in the video. It's the advice to not partake in Washington, D.C., at this retirement party, to go and speak in a partisan fashion about his history with the Young Liberals of Canada and so forth there, and again the advice not to engage in partisan matters by referring to “our party”, the Ontario Liberal Party. I just wanted to make sure we're on the record for all three of those challenges.
Thank you.
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you.
I have Monsieur Lauzon.
Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor for five minutes.
December 11th, 2023 / 9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses for being here this morning.
Mr. Janse, the House determined that it was important to address this matter promptly. Furthermore, the committee is responsible for making recommendations to the House. It is therefore accurate to say that the committee can't impose sanctions. Would you please tell us more about that process?
9:05 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
Madam Chair, I would like to thank Mr. Lauzon for his question.
As he said in response to Mrs. DeBellefeuille's questions, this committee may consider recommendations and select those it wishes to include in its report. The report must be tabled no later than Thursday, at which point it will be in the hands of the House. A motion for its adoption may be introduced, and it would be subject to debate. If the report were then adopted by the House, the recommendations that you would have included would be adopted as well.
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
You say we're in the midst of an unprecedented situation. Consequently, we don't really have any specific examples or precedents to guide us. You also say that, if the Speaker had consulted you, you would have recommended that he not make that video.
However, if it had been intended for a friend and hadn't been made public, and if it had served to thank only one person, would your hypothetical recommendation have been the same?
9:05 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
It's hard for me to answer your question because we usually aren't consulted on these kinds of situations.
If he had consulted me, I would have considered all sorts of details, including the identity of the recipient and what the Speaker was wearing when he recorded video. In that instance, I would have taken the precaution of recommending that he not make the video or that he consult the political parties to determine what they thought of it, as I've already mentioned.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Every MP, regardless of his or her role, whether or not it's the role of Speaker of the House, may make a personal video to thank and congratulate someone. We've all done it in the performance of our duties, whether for our political party or at the municipal, provincial or federal level. Why would the Speaker have to seek an opinion before sending that kind of video to someone?
That's where I draw the line.
Is there some provision in the Standing Orders of the House of Commons stating that the Speaker must absolutely consult you before recording a personal video for someone he or she admires?
9:10 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
That's a good question. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, there's nothing codified in the Standing Orders of the House concerning the impartiality of the Speaker. It's really been more a matter of practice for nearly 150 years.
Mr. LeBlanc, would you have something to add?
9:10 a.m.
Acting Deputy Clerk, Procedure, House of Commons
When you're the Speaker, there's an additional obligation to meet expectations of neutrality. Consequently, before recording this kind of video, you should ask yourself some questions. Who is the video for? What is the context in which the message is being conveyed? In what capacity is the person recording the video? Is the person doing it at home, normally dressed, or at the office in the Speaker's robes?
The situation could be interpreted differently depending on context.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Mr. Janse, I know that this situation is unprecedented and that we have no specific examples we can rely on. However, when Andrew Scheer was Speaker and sent $3,000 to the riding of Guelph in 2011, was he sanctioned?
9:10 a.m.
Michel Bédard Interim Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons
We have no knowledge of any sanction against Mr. Scheer when he was Speaker.