Evidence of meeting #98 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fergus.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:50 a.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC
Consequently, the various recommendations that we make will be very important, since they will influence the way in which similar events or incidents that may occur are managed in future.
8:50 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
It will help guide future speakers and us clerks who support the chair in dealing with other decisions and points of order.
8:50 a.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC
Mr. Janse, I was involved in your interview for the clerk position, and, as you know, the questions I asked you focused on the importance of impartiality.
An MP rarely leaves his or her seat to immediately take over the Speaker's role. There is usually an intermediate step where that person takes on the role of Deputy Speaker in order to learn the job before aspiring to the speakership. The first thing that a new Speaker should automatically do is seek procedural advice from his or her right-hand person, which is to say, you.
Did Mr. Fergus consult you and request advice before he made his video, dressed in his Speaker's robes, standing in the Speaker's office, stating his name and specifying that he was addressing a partisan audience?
8:50 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
Thank you for your question.
As I said in response to a similar question from Mr. Cooper, no, I wasn't consulted. However, we clerks and House Administration people are usually consulted on matters of procedure and administration of the House; we aren't necessarily consulted on more political issues or matters related to the political parties. Questions regarding those issues are instead put to the employees who work directly for the Speaker.
8:55 a.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC
If you had had a closer relationship with the Speaker, since you'd been working together for only two months, and if he had come to you and asked what you thought about the idea of pleasing an old friend who was leaving politics and of pleasing yourself as well, what would you have told him?
8:55 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
As I told Mr. Cooper, I would have advised him not to make the video or at least to consult all the parties to explain the request that he had received and to seek their opinion.
8:55 a.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC
Our passing the motion signalled that we feel the trust of the House was undermined. I don't want to consider this incident as a minor one. What happened was serious, but I haven't heard the Speaker apologize for making the video. He told the House that he was sorry it had been misinterpreted.
Do you feel that the Speaker has apologized for his lack of judgment?
8:55 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
That's a tough question. It's up to every person to determine whether he offered an apology, an explanation or a combination of the two. That may be a question that you should put to the Speaker at 9:30.
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you very much.
Mr. Julian, you have six minutes through the chair.
December 11th, 2023 / 8:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Messrs. Janse, Bédard and LeBlanc, thank you for being here today.
The motion passed by the House refers to a serious error undermining the trust of the House in the chair. So this is serious. The committee has to take it seriously, and that's why we've asked you to be here.
Mr. Janse, you said that, if you had been consulted, you would have told the Speaker that he was going too far and that he should not proceed as he did.
I wanted to know if you were consulted after Saturday night, after the video was broadcast. Was there contact from the Speaker's office, the Speaker's staff or the Speaker himself, asking for advice?
8:55 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
Through you, Madam Chair, I thank Mr. Julian for the question,.
There were some exchanges starting that weekend between me and the Speaker's office in terms of what next, which led in large part to the Speaker's statement on the Monday morning when the House opened.
8:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Was it about the framing of the apology or the framing of the response, or was it an after-the-fact request for what the precedent is around impartiality and non-partisanship?
8:55 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
The discussion was largely focused on next steps, with the suggestion that if the Speaker so desired, he could make a statement at the opening of the House.
8:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Would you be willing to share those emails with the committee today?
8:55 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
If the committee directs us to do so, we certainly could.
8:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you.
You mentioned oral and written briefings. From the written briefing and how it touches on non-partisanship and impartiality, what was specifically shared with the Speaker when the new Speaker came in?
8:55 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
Again, as mentioned in response to an earlier question, I think that's a lesson learned for us.
I don't think there's much in terms of discussion on the impartiality of the Speaker in the written briefing materials we provide. It's never really been an issue in the past, but certainly going forward, I think we will be beefing up that section. It was pretty minimal.
8:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Would you be willing to share the written briefing to the Speaker with the committee today? I say today because the timeline is very short, as I know you are aware.
Would you be willing to share those briefings?
8:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you.
Thirdly, was the Washington trip scheduled under the former Speaker Rota?
8:55 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
No, this was a trip that the current speaker initiated upon becoming Speaker. I understand he had already hoped or planned to go to Washington and then made it into an official IIA-led exchanges visit.
9 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Do you know when that trip was initiated? How soon was it after the Speaker's election?
9 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
Pretty quickly after the Speaker's election, he mentioned to us that he would like to go to Washington during those dates. That put into motion the preparation for the trip in question.
9 a.m.
Acting Clerk of the House of Commons
Days or, I would say, within two weeks maximum probably, we were made aware of the Speaker's desire to go to Washington.