Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 11th, 2023

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Mr. Fraser, you are an experienced parliamentarian; you are a member of a legislative assembly; you are very familiar with the requirement of impartiality imposed on the speaker of such an assembly.

How do you explain that Mr. Fergus agreed to make the video dressed in his Speaker's robes, in his Speaker's office, introducing himself as the Speaker of the House of Commons rather than just as your friend, and that he sent you his message from Parliament Hill? How do you explain that your friend decided to make that video?

[John Fraser]

With all due respect, as I said earlier, I've known Greg for over 30 years, and for a period of time we were very close. A family member, my wife, asked Greg to give a personal tribute. He provided a very kind and personal tribute. I'm really grateful for that. Again, I regret that it has caused any hurt or harm or undue attention.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

I am speaking to a parliamentarian who is familiar with the requirements of impartiality that the office of speaker of a legislative assembly demand.

The tribute Mr. Fergus paid to you seems to have touched you deeply, but he did it as the Speaker of the House of Commons. He spoke his message as the Speaker, wearing his Speaker's robes, in his office at the House of Commons, which is located on Parliament Hill. Do you understand that this is not just a slip?

He agreed to pay tribute to his friend as Speaker of the House of Commons. That creates some confusion. Do you not think that the line between friend and Speaker is being blurred here?

[John Fraser]

Thank you very much for your question.

I think if we go back to where this all started, I'm not privy to all the exact details of the conversation that occurred between Linda and Mr. Desfossés, so I can't give you what happened on the other end. All I can tell you is what I saw, what I heard and what I know.

I know my friend was asked to do something for me. He did something very kind, and I really appreciate what he did. I regret that a request that was put forward to my friend to do something for me has gotten to a situation right now where it has obviously caused some harm and some hurt and undue attention.

That's the answer I can give you on that. Thank you.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Mr. Fraser, did you, as a parliamentarian, not find it curious, were you not a bit alarmed, to see your friend pay tribute to you in his robes and in his role as Speaker of the House of Commons in a video played at a party meeting? Were you not told that Mr. Fergus had got himself in a jam? Obviously that was going to get out.

That is contrary to the impartiality that the Speaker of the House of Commons must maintain. Did seeing Mr. Fergus in his Speaker's robes not sound a bit of an alarm for you?

[John Fraser]

The first I saw or knew of this video was literally minutes before I had to go and deliver a speech that I had been working on for a week and a half.

All of the video was a surprise to me. I really didn't think about it much after that, because I had to go say thank you to a whole bunch of people, not just the people in the video but the people who have helped me along the way. I won't get into party politics here, but it was a really important speech for me and the last time I would ever do it. That's what I promised them. Never say never, but it was a very important speech.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Mr. Julian, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Fraser, it is obvious that your wife wanted to do something to pay tribute to you in as striking a way as possible. I quite understand all the work that went into the video. However, it is important for us to get some answers.

I think you just answered, with the question from Madame DeBellefeuille, that your reaction in terms of the video was.... I gather that you didn't really have time to absorb it because you were preparing to give a keynote speech. Is that fair to say? You absorbed the emotion but not necessarily the details.

[John Fraser]

There is some emotion in it, but everything is just flicking by you, and then you literally have to turn around, get up on stage and deliver a speech that I wish I'd had more time to work on, without getting into the details of it, and to practise.

It was a busy week for us. We were doing midnight sittings, and we had a by-election on the Thursday. That whole week is a bit of a blur leading up to Saturday. I was a bit tired, not overwhelmed, but I felt emotional over it. Then, after you were done, there was a whole other thing that was going on that weekend with a lot of media interviews. It just blew right by me.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

It's fair to say that it didn't register with you that Mr. Fergus was in his Speaker's robes and in the Speaker's chamber.

[John Fraser]

Of all of the things that were processing in my brain at the time.... There was a lot there. To give you the short answer, no.

I'm sorry. I give long answers—just ask any of my colleagues.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

That's fair enough.

[John Fraser]

We all have to fill the clock.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I come from B.C., and we have different rules in terms of the provincial legislature. In terms of the Ontario legislature, what are the rules around the Speaker's impartiality, the use of the Speaker's robes and the Speaker's chamber?

[John Fraser]

I couldn't tell you what the rules are for that. I know Speaker Arnott fairly well. I have an office just down the hall from him.

I'd have to refer to what I'm pretty sure would be in the Standing Orders. Although I've spent 10 years there, the Standing Orders are not something that I've thoroughly studied, so I can't tell you the answer to that question.

I see what you're getting at.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

If you saw the current Speaker in the Ontario legislature in their robes in their Speaker's quarters offering greetings or even an homage to a Conservative convention or that video played at a Conservative convention, what would be your reaction?

[John Fraser]

I can only speak to what my experience is. My experience was that my family asked a close friend to do something very special for me, and that is what he did. I appreciate it very much. That's a question best answered by Mr. Fergus—Greg—and his office.

That's what I can say about that. That's what that video means to me. That's what I see when I see that video. I really very deeply appreciated it.

All of us, I'm sure.... For everybody who has listened, seen the video or has the transcript, I think the message he was delivering was very clear.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

The Ontario leadership convention was livestreamed. Is that right?

[John Fraser]

It was livestreamed, yes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Was it livestreamed on Friday as well?

[John Fraser]

There was no Friday. As a normal course of events.... We used to have delegate conventions that would be like an AGM. We would go Friday, Saturday and maybe Sunday morning.

This was literally an event that went between 12 and six in the afternoon. It was an error in communication that it was to be December 1. There was no December 1.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Was there no event at all?

[John Fraser]

There was no event.

The error, I think, that occurred is that.... At most of our conventions—and I'm not sure about your party—usually, if somebody's outgoing, something will be done on the Friday night. However, there was no Friday night. That's the confusion. That's what caused the confusion with the date.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay, but the intent of Saturday was always to be livestreamed and broadcast with the leadership—

[John Fraser]

Very much so, yes.