Human Resources Committee on March 15th, 2010

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I only have five minutes, I'm sorry.

I understand that, but what you're saying is that the board at this point has no say. It is not making any decisions.

[Karen Jackson]

Its role begins this fall--fall 2010--for setting the rate in 2011.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Okay.

I'd like to move on to another part. Given that 42% of Canadians have low literacy, how can any of you here explain the cut of $1.3 million in grants and contributions to organizations that provide adult literacy, literacy and essential skills? Given the 42% literacy problem, why are we cutting literacy by $1.3 million? From the policy perspective, can anyone answer that question? And the information is on page 14-14 and 14-9.

[Liseanne Forand]

I'll ask Mr. Saucier to confirm this for me, but my understanding is that this reduction in these programs has to do with some programs that were sunsetting and that have not been renewed, but it is in the context of a broader expenditure in these areas and transfers, etc. So I'll perhaps just ask Mr. Saucier to explain the difference between last year's main estimates and this year's estimates.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I know the difference, it says a $1.3 million cut.

What I want to know is, from the policy perspective, given the level of literacy issues in our country.... I presume some of you give policy advice and do policy development. What is the rationale for the cut, apart from the sunsetting? Programs always sunset, but then you renew them, because they're needed. So why were they not being renewed?

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

If you could answer that as briefly as possible, that would be good.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I have one more question and then I'm done. Or could I ask for that--

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Yes, your time is up actually.

[Liseanne Forand]

I will answer that briefly, Madam Chair.

The department is very aware of the concerns with respect to literacy, particularly with respect to attachment to the labour force. We have included programming having to do with essential skills and literacy with respect to our labour market program suite of programs, and I can provide further information on those particular programs.

So we are continuing to work, particularly with respect to programs that are delivered in the workplace for workers and people seeking training to get back into the workplace, to ensure that literacy and essential skills can be increased, particularly in order to make people eligible for ongoing work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Vellacott.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Thank you.

I think most of my questions, at least initially, will be directed to Sharon and then I'll have some on the matter of the EI and the labour shortages in the country.

First off, Ms. Matthews, there's been a renewal--of course, a good thing--of the affordable housing initiative and at the current funding levels until March 31, 2011. You mentioned here in your presentation as well some examples--these costs matched and delivered by provinces and territories--and you mention projects like Building for Independence in Dartmouth with long-term mental health illness there in respect to the portable rental units in that sphere of things.

First off, is that a growing need? Could you give me some idea--or maybe you can get back to us later by way of researching that a bit--what is the percentage of the total in terms of housing such as Building for Independence or others for those with long-term mental health illness?

I think it's how we are judged as a society when those most vulnerable among us, through no fault of their own--it's not like they can get skills training or anything that will suffice for them.... But I believe we need to take care of that. I'm just rather curious whether that's a growing need--some reports, anecdotal and research as well to indicate--and what is the percentage of the total?

[Sharon Matthews]

I'm afraid I couldn't give you a breakdown in terms of that client group. I can tell you, overall, that housing need from the census 2001 to 2006 marginally went down on a percentage basis and largely pretty well flatlined. In an absolute number perspective, I think it was marginally up. So you haven't seen a lot of change. Percentage-wise, it's slightly down, but I wouldn't be able to give you a percentage off the top. I could perhaps go back and ask our research--

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Could you do that? I'd much appreciate that.

[Sharon Matthews]

--and I'll see what would be available in the corporation.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

For sure. Those in respect to the long-term mental health illness out of the affordable housing initiative--if you could give me that, if that's a growing need and what's the percentage of the total, I would appreciate that.

[Sharon Matthews]

I'll see what we can have.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

The other question is at the end of your presentation, about the third paragraph from the end, where CMHC is administering up to $2 billion in low-cost loans to municipalities for housing-related infrastructure. It's not really a deep profound question, but what's the percentage of interest there, or how is that "low cost" determined.

[Sharon Matthews]

The interest has actually been quite good with this program. From a cost-benefit perspective, a municipality could save significant dollars. In the current market you're probably looking at about 1% or 1.5% interest savings. So on a $10-million infrastructure loan over a 15-year period, a municipality could save upwards of $1 million or $1.5 million. That is not insignificant to a municipality's bottom line.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

How do you calculate or determine that? Is it based on current Bank of Canada rates?

[Sharon Matthews]

We look at current and average rates out there. Every municipality is a little different as far as what rate they can get in the marketplace. We're estimating about 1% or 1.5% in the current market, but it would absolutely vary by jurisdiction.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Good.

On the labour issue, in my province of Saskatchewan we have some significant labour shortages. Despite the global recession we've had, some industries are having a rather difficult time finding qualified workers. I think the problem will only get worse as the economy recovers. It seems rather out of sync for some of the opposition parties to be calling for an unaffordable and irresponsible increase in EI when Canadians want to work. Employers, at least in my part of the country, desperately need workers.

I wonder if you can touch on some of the things that have been done and that you anticipate will be done in the days ahead with things like skills training, the targeted initiative for older workers, foreign credential recognition, and so on. We have a large aboriginal population in my province, so the aboriginal component is key. Lastly is youth. We always have to be doing what we can to make sure there are initiatives there too.

[Karen Jackson]

Thank you for the question.

Even as the government has implemented and is acting on an economic action plan in response to a recession, it is also important to keep our eye on the ball going forward. We know that there are skills shortages even now in certain occupations and professions in certain areas of the country. This presents a challenge going forward as well.

There are a number of things we are doing--for example, the investments in the skills training that the previous questioner asked me about. That money is being transferred to provinces where it's being spent on both EI and non-EI clients. The action plan put out an additional $750 million per year over the two years for those purposes--I've actually found my figures. That's going to provide up to 120,000 Canadians or so each year with the opportunity to upgrade their skills or train for jobs that will be in demand down the road.

You mentioned the targeted initiative for older workers. The economic action plan provided additional investment in that initiative too. The provinces and territories are in the lead in developing the projects, or working in communities to have the projects designed. The bottom line is that it's about trying to equip older workers with the skills that will allow them to fill jobs in demand and remain in the labour force now and into the future.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you for that.

Monsieur Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Very briefly, let's talk about the Canada summer jobs program for students. Some budgets are determined by geographic region and others by city.

How many cities in Canada manage a budget for the Canada summer jobs program outside Service Canada?

[Karen Jackson]

If I understand the question, most provinces in this country have their own summer programming for students. As far as how it gets delivered and whether it gets delivered individually by cities or municipalities, I'm not sure I can answer that.