Human Resources Committee on April 12th, 2010

[Chief Robert Louie]

Housing is certainly a big, big topic. It guides council elections and it guides the will of our community. We are just in the process now of tabling a final community needs assessment, and housing is certainly part of that. So our council is focusing on meeting the housing needs.

What we have looked at in the past--and we see it across Canada--is that while housing needs are there, first nation communities like ourselves can't be the full risk-taker. We've seen that. I believe that the full 25% to 30% of the problems in Canada with housing are, where first nations are involved, in the CMHC housing needs and programs in having to offset the cost of the houses. It's a problem. I've seen first nations where if you guarantee too much at the governmental level to support the housing and if some of your members don't pay enough, it puts that whole program in the red and you're going to have economic problems. There will be spinoffs and it will affect your community services. It will affect whether or not you are viable as an entity and all those things.

So for us, we've looked at ways to counter that. We try to provide mortgage financing and have empowered our band members to actually mortgage themselves. We have created things like the A to A lease. An A to A lease simply allows a band member to create a lease in his or her name, and that lease is signed by him or her as the CP holder, the certificate of possession holder of the property. The banks now will look at that A to A lease and provide financing. It's only available if you're in land management or self-government right now. At least that's up to the present. That is a form of empowering the first nation person to create a mortgage and have a mortgageable financial instrument that allows him or her to build a house.

So for us, when we look at that, that works fine when we have CP lands. I mentioned that 80% of our lands are CP-ed out, where our individuals are empowered with the rights of ownership and they're viewed as if they were fee simple owners. It's a structure that works.

We have other programs such as our overall band subdivisions, where we have CMHC financing, where the band will actually put in the dollars and in some cases rely on the support from CMHC and the guarantees therefrom, and we'll put subdivisions in place. But our policy is one of entrepreneurial ownership. So in those types of subdivisions, what we put ourselves in is when that mortgage is paid off, one by one by one, in band subdivisions, those band members will eventually, for one dollar, at the end of that mortgage payout, then have their houses. Such members become entrepreneurial persons and it's viewed as fee simple.

So that works for us in those situations. In other situations where we have social development, recipients on welfare, those sorts of things, we have band housing, which will always remain band housing. We'll put in fourplexes or sixplexes or sometimes duplexes, and lower-income homes where we need to subsidize, and that will become housing that will never be owned by individual band members. It will always be owned by the band itself.

We have to have a mixture to accommodate the needs of our community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much, Chief Louie. We went well over on that one, but I think it was really important that we heard how you manage housing, because that definitely is one of the biggest challenges we're finding.

We'll go to Mr. Cannan now, please.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Chief Louie, for giving us some of your valuable time and sharing your wisdom and experience with our committee. We've had the opportunity to chat several times about the challenges of first nations communities across the country, and we appreciate your leadership of 18 years. I understand you just put your name forward for the next election, so congratulations, and I hope you'll be able to continue on with your success.

I just wanted to add a supplemental to my colleague Mr. Savage's comments about education. Maybe you could share with the committee some of the successes and the opportunities of the youth. Our fastest-growing demographic in Canada is young aboriginal Canadians. What we're looking at is how we can take that education component. We've had success in the community working with Okanagan College as well as UBC Okanagan.

Could you share with the committee how Okanagan Nation Alliance as well as the Westbank First Nation have been able to partner for post-secondary education for trade skills and training, so you have the labour, and you can give the education, which means employment, which provides for prosperity in the future?

[Chief Robert Louie]

Thank you very much, Mr. Cannan.

Yes, education is one of the hallmarks, one of the pillars, of what's needed in our community here, and yes, we do work with the Okanagan College, for example. One of our council members, Councillor Loretta Swite, is a board member there and has direct input into some of the planning and some of the priorities that need to be advocated. That direct involvement allows for the Okanagan College to hear our needs, I think, to hear about what needs to take place, and allows for it to help provide support.

As well, we provide support to our students. We have dollars that we look to in order to supplement our students getting into these programs. Trades and the apprentices needed are one focus, and there are the academics, of course. All of the areas have to be covered.

We work very closely, we believe, with UBCO, the University of British Columbia Okanagan. Even something like their addition here, where they now have an aboriginal centre component within the university itself, provides a means to address issues when and where they arise. The Okanagan Nation Alliance is a culmination of six bands in British Columbia, Westbank being one of them. We work very closely through that group to work and align ourselves with the Okanagan College, and of course UBCO, in some of the programming.

I think that input and that involvement of some of our cultural language speakers and so forth are important in the overall education system. I think that has met with a lot of success.

What's important is a lot of curriculum development. Some of that curriculum development to encompass aboriginal needs is something that now the universities and colleges seem to be listening to. I think we've made some strides and some headway at that level in incorporating it into the curriculum planning of the schools. I think those have all been positive things.

The youth and the support of the youth are fundamental, so when we have graduations, to have the councils there, to have the parents there, to have that recognition, those are all stimulants that show the upcoming youth how to say, “If they can do it, then we can do it.” There are steps in that regard. There are things like having the aboriginal graduation of Métis and status peoples and having the sharing of that celebration of success. I think those are all positive avenues towards education. We contribute dollars to help put on these events. All of them are stimulants to education.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

That's fabulous. I have the opportunity to work with Minister Stockwell Day, who's also your member of Parliament, as the band covers two ridings, and there's one of the opportunities I'd like to provide for the committee right now.

Mr. Lessard alluded to some of the residential development that you've had taking place. Maybe you could just share with the committee a little bit about some of the success you've had to date and some of the hope, opportunities, and economic development plans you have for the reserve lands.

[Chief Robert Louie]

Yes, I think we've had some fair amount of success.

I mentioned the 1.25 million square feet of shopping centres. We deal with thousands of leases. We now have between 3,000 and 4,000 leases that are in place residential-wise. We've just signed an MOU with a developer where the WFN will be a fifty-fifty partner for another shopping centre. The two phases will include 280,000 square feet. The WFN is a direct 50% co-venture partner in that. I think that's something that will work very well. The creation of those partnerships will be momentous, I think, for the future.

I'll mention as another example the Okanagan Lake Bridge development, and the partnering of WFN with the intersections, such as the Campbell Road interchange. That was a $15 million-plus project where WFN was the first in British Columbia, and maybe one of the first in Canada, that actually was respected...to administer the particular delivery of that project.

That was a big impetus for the next phase. Now we're handling a $41-million project on the Westside Road interchange. That's building an overpass over Highway 97, the main highway corridor through the Okanagan Valley, and having detour roads that will help divert traffic from the highway and give proper directions and easy accessibility. That project is being administered by our organization. Our objective, as with the Campbell Road interchange, is to deliver that project on time and on budget. Thus far we will meet that objective.

Those types of things create opportunities for us, we believe. This shopping centre that I talked about, the MOU with the fifty-fifty joint venture partner, will provide an avenue for that easy accessibility to that shopping centre and will hopefully be of benefit to the overall community.

These types of things provide economic development spinoffs. Tourism development is one example. Last week I attended ceremonies with West Kelowna, the new municipality here, and WFN donated approximately $29,000 to that tourism fund. We're working in partnership with West Kelowna municipality and with the regional district to promote tourism in the area. We even have an exact figure--24.86%--that represents tourism on the west side. That is a tremendous catalyst, and we're involved in that.

In terms of future planning, and how tourism will impact the overall community, there are spinoffs from that. Hotels, restaurants--all of these entities are beneficiaries. We're working closely in that regard. I think these are all stimulants in terms of what we're involved in and working toward on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much, Chief Louie.

Before we begin our second round of questions, I want to ask you if you're able to stay a little bit longer so that we can get a few more questions in. You are scheduled to be with us until 4:30. Is your time schedule pretty tight?

[Chief Robert Louie]

Madam Chair, I do have to leave in ten minutes. I have a roomful of our staff and outside consultants who are actually waiting for me to attend another meeting. Within ten minutes I have to attend that function. I apologize, but I have no choice there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Okay.

Well, I'm glad I asked, because we will begin our second round with three minutes each, I think, and try to get in as many questions as we can. We'll try to really keep to the time schedule.

Madam Minna, three minutes, please.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you very much. I'll try to be very brief.

I want to turn to the reserves. There are five reserves, and two are populated. We know the population on the reserves. How many members of your reserve, members who consider themselves to be part of your community, would be living in urban centres at this point?

[Chief Robert Louie]

I believe it's greater than 50%, so between 450 and 480. That's the latest statistic I can recall. Our total membership is actually 680, or maybe 680-plus right now.

Certainly more than 50% actually live and reside here on WFN lands.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

How many of your members are living in urban centres now and would relate to your community?

[Chief Robert Louie]

That's a little more difficult question. I apologize for not having the exact figure in my head. Over 50% actually live here on the reserve. I kind of contribute now to the thinking that it's more urban-oriented as opposed to rural. If we look across Canada, we have residents who live in Toronto. We have some in Texas. We have them all over the place. Vancouver is another spot. If I were to take a guess about urban versus rural, of our total population on and off reserve, more than 75% to 80% would be in urban-oriented areas. I'm sure less than 20% would be in remote rural areas.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

What percentage of young people go on to post-secondary education?

[Chief Robert Louie]

That figure is climbing on a yearly basis. I don't have the exact statistics, but our graduation rates from grade 12 are up quite dramatically and are approaching 60% to 70%. I believe we are now at least within ten percentage points of equalling the national norm for graduation. We're catching up fairly quickly with the program. So our community is really focused on graduation rates from grade 12.

On post-secondary education, I don't know the percentages, but we do have members now in law training, for example. Others have expressed a desire to go into the medical profession and I'm sure they are going to be there--dentistry, and that sort of thing. So it's growing dramatically.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thanks.

We'll go to Mr. Casson for three minutes.

[Rick Casson, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thanks, Chief Louie, for being here today. We won't hold you up and keep you from your important meeting with your developers. It sounds exciting. Let us know how that turns out.

[Chief Robert Louie]

Thank you.

[Rick Casson, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

It seems to me that the example you have set for your people is something that should be duplicated and repeated across the country. Are you aware of any mentoring at the leadership level by yourselves and others who have been successful? I don't think you take enough credit for what you've done there on a personal level and with your band council members. Without your leadership I don't think it would have happened.

On the whole issue of poverty, I think people need a hand up, and you certainly have created an environment where that's possible. So congratulations on that.

Do you have any thoughts on how this can be replicated and moved across the nation?

[Chief Robert Louie]

Thank you very much, Mr. Casson.

First, I thank you for your kind words.

Our objective for mentoring is to try to get more of our own membership at the management level. We're not all the way there yet, but we are moving in that direction. We have over 200 people who are employed directly with WFN, if I include the Pine Acres intermediate care facility. It's certainly a big area for employment. Through general administration, the work we have, and the various corporate entities we have, well over 200 people are directly under the employ of WFN.

As far as management, we work purposely to try to provide opportunities. As an example, our new director of operations is a band member who took the position as of April 1. Our existing director of operations will continue throughout and well into the summer months and will also be available to work on special projects that we've discussed with the outgoing director of operations. In our community health division, for example, one of our band members works as the overall manager. Others are in training. Our objective is to provide that opportunity to the next band member. Those are some examples.

We have a lot of experience in things such as shopping centre developments. One of the conditions we put in our joint venture partnerships is for not a lot but some money to show the intent that a band member would have an opportunity to learn about the leasing of shopping centres and how shopping centres work. It's a position we've intentionally tried to create to provide management opportunities in that field in the future.

We still have a long way to go. We still need post-secondary training and business attributes, but we're getting there. Those are forms of mentorship that we find are working.

In our constitution, for example, when we have self-government, we have to balance the issue of human rights with regard to employment. One of our objectives in the community when there are opportunities is to give first nations members at Westbank the first chance. We then look at other families of first nations and other first nations people in the area.

For example, a lot of labour is involved in our contract for the Campbell Road interchange. A requirement put into the provincial contracts was that 10% of all labour and employment had to come from the Westbank First Nation. It had to at least be available. We built the same thing into the Westbank interchange. Those are avenues we've worked on.

For Walmart, Home Depot, and the other shopping centre retail outlets on the reserve, we don't have an actual policy saying they must do that. It's not in a contractual binding agreement for some of the leasing arrangements. We very quietly talk to the management at Home Depot, Zellers, and Walmart. If there are an opportunities, we ask them to look at employing first nations people. We'll help those individuals get to the needed levels to be good employees for the businesses.

Through those things, I think we help in mentoring and working towards employment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thanks, Chief Louie.

Do we have time? Can we have one more question and answer?

[Chief Robert Louie]

Yes, by all means.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

That's great.

Madame Beaudin, please.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, Chief Louie, for joining us today.

We have very little time. Two issues concern me, as they do you. In order to help out people in a community, we need to start with the young children. Earlier, you stated that you have an early childhood centre targeting infants. I was wondering if the centre also addresses the needs of children aged five and under. I'd like to know if any of your activities target children aged five and under. How many children are there in this age group on your reserve?

You also mentioned problems with parents suffering from drug and alcohol addiction. I believe you also said that on the economic front, you operate a casino. I was wondering how you reconcile everything. How do you reconcile drug and alcohol addiction problems with the operation of a casino on the reserve, and with your desire to help young children? What is your plan of action in this regard?

[Chief Robert Louie]

Thank you very much. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough. I'll go with that last point first, if I may.

Gaming is something that we do not have at this point in time. We have an ambition to carefully look at that and perhaps at some point in time be involved in the gaming industry. I used gaming as an example of success in other provinces and other areas, but we're not quite there in that facility. So I can't comment too much more on that.

On the early child centre and the developments there, the child development centre is focused on under five years of age right up to the kindergarten level--just the preschool level. Yes, we do have children under five years of age. The childhood development centre, quite frankly, used to be open to all of the public with our first nation children involved. Over time it's evolved to where we focus now on the WFN first nation community children.

The need is so great in that area, we've had to supplement. But we do that with eyes wide open. It costs more to operate than we can provide in actual raising of dollars. Therefore we need to find other programs and other ways to assist, and that's what we willingly do.

The dividends, I think, are very important, because the thinking we have there is to provide the opportunities for that early learning. A lot of the kindergarten children come out of that early childhood development centre with knowledge that helps them in that first grade level. I think it's really important to focus in on that younger age.

I've seen communities in the far north, for example. Fort Nelson is one of the communities where I've seen the mothers with the babies in the classrooms or in the facility in the community centre, and their other children are perhaps enrolled in the school. But it's one of invitation, it's one of inviting in that community in Fort Nelson that really works. It has the parents directly involved at the school level and feeling part of it. They don't feel that they come just to simply sit there, drink coffee, and have a babysitting service.

It's an environment that has to be created whereby the young children, the babies, and so forth have that comfort. They have the knowledge that their parent or the school system or the first nation community is there to help them. I think that's the feeling that has to be attributed from early birth right through.

In some cases it takes training of the parents, because alcoholism and drug abuse is where I think the real poverty lies. It's within families in that situation. So that has to be focused on. It's a big challenge, I think, in Canada to make sure that's a focus. If you don't start at that very early age, I think communities will have less advantage and it will be more difficult to get individuals out of that poverty.