Evidence of meeting #47 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kenneth V. Georgetti  President, Canadian Labour Congress
Steven Schumann  Canadian Government Affairs Director, International Union of Operating Engineers
Harold McBride  Executive Director, Operating Engineers Training Institute of Ontario, International Union of Operating Engineers
Mark Salkeld  President and Chief Executive Officer, Petroleum Services Association of Canada
Paul Taylor  Director, Human Resources, All Weather Windows

9:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Operating Engineers Training Institute of Ontario, International Union of Operating Engineers

Harold McBride

—nationally, is under the name of the Canadian Operating Engineers Joint Apprenticeship and Training Council. This is where we need the funding, to get the same criteria for testing on the east coast as on the west coast; we're all one unified body.

Unfortunately, the AIT agreement put the cart ahead of the horse. The AIT agreement says if you're qualified in any province, you can land in any province and do the work. We have issues with that in Ontario because we have compulsory certification for tower crane and mobile crane operators. When we made that compulsory, crane-related fatalities decreased 50%. That's huge. That's deaths. That's what compulsory certification did for Ontario. So we do have a problem with someone from another province coming into Ontario with a low training standard and no compulsory certification.

I agree, more has to be done as a national body to get everybody on the same page with the same high standards, not a low standard.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Mr. Cuzner's time is up, but does anyone else have a comment?

Mr. Georgetti.

9:30 a.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Kenneth V. Georgetti

I have just a quick one.

I don't know if you've heard from Bob Blakely from building trades or the provincial counterpart from New Brunswick about the Red Seal program. If you haven't, you should. It's interesting how it developed and how it works, and how it keeps that labour mobility at work. It's cooperative with the federal and provincial governments and industry and labour. It works really well, and they did it all privately.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

We now move to...Mr. McColeman?

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

That is my name, Mr. Chair, yes.

Would you like me to turn that for you?

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

We didn't have you listed, as such, but I do recognize you.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

Oh, thank you.

First of all, gentlemen, thank you for being here.

I have too much on my plate to be able to get it all in during my five minutes, so I'll quickly make some points and maybe you can respond. Here are the key points from the notes I made.

Mr. Georgetti says that literacy is the biggest need. Mr. Schumann says that we need workers now. There's a whole lot of discussion about how we get down to doing this, and I think that's where we should go.

I love Mr. Georgetti's characterization that this is everybody's responsibility. I totally agree. As a former employer, having brought several carpenters through the apprenticeship program in my company, I know it behooves companies to absolutely put people through apprenticeship programs. If you don't, then you're not going to have the workers on your team to expand your business.

So it's everybody's responsibility. From my perspective of my world, having led the Ontario Home Builder's Association in the mid-nineties, I believe the small entrepreneurial and the large residential contractors do a huge program in terms of putting people into apprenticeships, because, frankly, it makes you money when you do it. So it's happening from an employer's point of view.

That leads me to my ultimate question here. I just want to make a point. I represent an aboriginal community called Six Nations in Brant. It has 12,000 members. We have given to them in the last three and a half years, since I've been the member of Parliament, over $6 million-plus, for 12,000 people, in retraining programs and training programs.

The one I'll highlight is called Pipe Dreams. Pipe Dreams is a partnership with the union in the Niagara area. It brings people into Brantford, into a training facility, and trains them on welding. This is just aboriginal people; no one else can be part of it at this point.

So there are things happening on the ground. This is where the partnerships need to come together and understand what's happening. Instead of talking all about the theory of it, let's get down to it.

I want to ask you, from your perspective, particularly the construction union, what are you doing to promote, partner, and community-build with community colleges with the actual trainers? What are you doing? Are you out there advertising, saying that there are jobs available and that you're a vehicle to get people into jobs? Are you working with community colleges on curriculum?

As well, are you breaking down the provincial barriers yourselves? The provincial barriers are huge. Do you know that an electrician in Ottawa cannot work across the border in Quebec, but a Quebec electrician can come into Ontario and work? That's because of the union blocking them coming in from Ontario to Quebec.

So I want to know what you're doing in terms of addressing the issues on the ground, daily.

9:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Operating Engineers Training Institute of Ontario, International Union of Operating Engineers

Harold McBride

These are good questions, in particular for first nations, Métis, and Inuit.

What are the operating engineers doing? Six years ago we were approached by the Government of Nunavut Board of Education, in particular to deal with the mining boom in Nunavut. To date, we've trained.... We're closing in on 700 Inuit in six years. We're enjoying an employment rate of over 90%. That's Local 793, in conjunction with the Government of Nunavut Board of Education and the Operating Engineers Training Institute of Ontario.

In regard to your question about Six Nations, yes, I'm very familiar with that program with Six Nations. Brandi Jonathan actually heads up that program. We've worked with Brandi for the past 10 years, and in particular in the last two years supporting that program by busing down 15 aboriginal students from Six Nations. We put them into a program, indentured them into apprenticeship, and they're now out in the workforce. We're just negotiating to do the same again for the third year.

Right now we're in partnership—to answer your question about partnerships—and very active with AECON. I hope everybody is familiar with AECON. We're working with Six Nations and Brandi Jonathan, the Ring of Fire, northwestern Ontario. The Ring of Fire is nine aboriginal bands. We're now creating a partnership with them to access the resources from the Six Nations aboriginals, the Ring of Fire, who do not necessarily have that expertise. We're putting together a proposal to train aboriginals to work in northwestern Ontario in the boom—the construction, the railway, the roads that are going to be going in for the billions of dollars' worth of projects.

So yes, we're very active. And let's face it, the most available workforce in Canada is the first nations, Métis, and Inuit. We've recognized that. Again, funds are crucial to make this all happen. Government support is crucial to make this all happen. Much of these programs are in-kind donations from our union, in particular, the busing, putting these students up, and giving them some short courses to get them indentured and interested in the apprenticeship programs we offer.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much for that.

Your time is up.

Do you have one comment, Kenneth?

9:35 a.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Kenneth V. Georgetti

I have one quick thing.

We are working as well with the CME, the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters. Small employers have a difficult administrative time with apprenticeship, managing the administration and having that step. We're trying to find a cooperative way to expand that economy of scale to give them the administrative support they need so they can take apprentices on without that burden, and it seems to be working fairly well.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your very frank and candid observations. Your points are well made. The committee will certainly take them into consideration.

Thank you for coming.

We'll suspend now.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

I call the meeting to order.

We're pleased to have with us today Mark Salkeld, a member of the Petroleum Services Association of Canada. In fact, he's the president and chief executive officer. We also have with us Paul Taylor, who is the director of human resources at All Weather Windows.

Each of you will be presenting, gentlemen, and then there will be questions from each of the parties going forward. We're dealing with a study relating to the current and anticipated skills shortages in high-demand areas and the difficulties faced by employers seeking to hire people for low-skilled jobs specifically in the service sector.

With that in mind, who is going to present first?

Go ahead, Mr. Salkeld.

October 2nd, 2012 / 9:50 a.m.

Mark Salkeld President and Chief Executive Officer, Petroleum Services Association of Canada

Thank you very much, and thank you for the invitation to speak before this committee. I appreciate the time you've taken to listen to the issues and concerns of the oil and gas services sector in addressing our existing labour shortages.

My name is Mark Salkeld. As mentioned, I am the president and CEO of the Petroleum Services Association of Canada. The Petroleum Services Association is the national trade association representing the service, supply, and manufacturing sectors within the upstream petroleum industry. The Petroleum Services Association represents a diverse range of 260 member companies, which employ more than 65,000 people contracting almost exclusively to oil and gas exploration and production companies.

The energy services sector plays a significant role in industry, from the front-line in-field services to high-tech jobs such as online and real-time directional drilling jobs based in corporate offices. Our sector is becoming increasingly important, with the technology development and innovation taking place in our industry. The service sector and operators are collaborating on research and development that is resulting in game-changing technologies that are driving the continuous improvement in our operational and environmental performance.

According to the recent report of the Senate Standing Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources, current measurement of R and D activity does not fully capture an estimated additional $1 billion spent annually by energy companies in their labs and in-field experiments. Very often, oil and gas wells become the labs' on-the-job training.

Our industry is growing. However, this growth is being met with certain constraints, and the shortage of skilled workers is the single largest issue we face today. The upstream petroleum services sector is already experiencing a skilled labour shortage, which is expected to become even more severe over the next decade. Hiring requirements for the service sector alone are projected to be more than 5,000 new workers by 2015.

There are a few key challenges that are contributing to the workforce shortages. First are the changes in the traditional labour pool from which many workers would come to work in the energy services sector. In the past, for instance, the service sector was somewhat reliant on the agricultural industry, farmers in particular, individuals who are for the most part mechanically inclined, with skill sets easily transferrable and suited to the energy services. Their slow period during winter is our busy period, so it was a natural transition for many years. Changing demographics have caused this pool of workers to shrink, and so too is the changing nature of the work being performed by the service, supply, and manufacturing sector.

This leads to a second key challenge: the nature of the work. The type of work performed in the field by many of our member organizations is physically demanding, usually performed in remote locations over extended periods of time and in extreme weather conditions. As well, workers can be away from their homes and families for weeks at a time. The pool of potential workers willing to accept these conditions is becoming smaller.

Thirdly, not only is willingness lacking, but there is increasing competition for labour from within our industry and other Canadian industries, as they too are faced with increased labour shortages. Within our own borders, there is increasing cross-country competition.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

If you could slow down a little, it will help the interpreter. Take your time. We'll give you enough time to complete.

9:55 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Petroleum Services Association of Canada

Mark Salkeld

Okay.

Within our own borders there is increasing cross-country competition, with major projects coming online, such as shipbuilding on both the east and west coasts, mine openings, and other mega projects like LNG trains and pipelines, to mention just a few.

International opportunities as well continue to cause a drain on our skilled workforce, as workers seek opportunities or are recruited from abroad for both temporary and long-term employment. Canada's energy service sector workers at all levels, from field to engineering, are considered to be some of the most well-trained, safest, and overall best-in-class experts in the world, so other countries are on the ground in Canada recruiting on a regular basis.

The final challenge has to do with the energy services sector image. In many ways, the oil and gas services sector is hidden from the potential labour pool. Jobs in this sector do not hold the same reputation or are as visible as jobs with producer companies, for instance. In many cases, people are not aware of the energy services sector at all and do not know about the wide range of occupations that make up the sector, including the high-tech jobs.

Jobs in the petroleum services sector are incorrectly viewed by potential workers as unstable, cyclical, seasonal, unsafe, or low-tech. In reality, companies in the oil and gas services sector are earning well-respected and rightly deserved reputations for leadership in research and development and innovation. They are delivering ever-increasing highly technical products and services, but continue to battle against an image of employing mostly unskilled workers.

To overcome this challenge, the Petroleum Services Association of Canada has been working to increase the awareness of the petroleum services supply and manufacturing sector and the abundant opportunities that do exist.

The Petroleum Services Association recently commissioned a study to identify the most in-demand occupations and the potential labour pools within Canada where related transferrable skills to perform those jobs might be located. The most in-demand occupations identified by our member companies are heavy equipment operators, heavy duty equipment mechanics, welders, truck drivers, petroleum services operators, petroleum services semi-skilled workers, including labourers, helpers, and experienced rig workers, and chemical, mechanical, and petroleum engineers.

Of the more than 5,000 new petroleum services jobs to be filled by 2015, the seven occupations in highest demand just listed will represent 25% of that requirement. As well, hiring due to age-related attrition will continue to 2015 and beyond, which will be a driving force behind 9,500 existing jobs the industry will need to fill over the next few years.

PSAC member companies always strive to hire Canadians first and foremost. Many jobs in this sector normally require some entry-level skills as well as specific on-the-job training. Many of the skills in the highest demand are not acquired through post-secondary training, and it is our member companies who ultimately provide in-house training programs to prepare workers for their jobs and ever-advancing positions of responsibility. Although Canadian workers may hold the basic skills needed to perform these jobs, the challenges previously identified impact their willingness to accept the work offered. This is a significant factor behind why our member companies look to seek workers from outside the country.

The Petroleum Services Association applauds the action taken in recent months by all levels of government to address the skilled labour shortage but recognizes more work needs to be done. Areas where government can continue to assist include maintaining or creating tax incentives and/or other incentive programs to encourage the recruitment of workers from all regions of the country, reducing or streamlining regulatory barriers faced by employers when attempting to locate and retain skilled labour from outside Canada's borders, and encouraging consultation with industry to find mechanisms to help companies with U.S. or other international operations to bring existing experienced employees into Canada as a temporary measure when required.

The Petroleum Services Association of Canada welcomes dialogue with all levels of government on this issue, and I wish to encourage the members of the committee and all members of the House to continue to consult with industry and with the trade associations, so that together we can find the solutions that will help build the critical human capital needed to support Canada's economic growth as a whole, now and into the future.

Thank you very much.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you for that presentation and those suggestions. For sure, human capital is very important for our country to grow.

Mr. Taylor, go ahead.

9:55 a.m.

Paul Taylor Director, Human Resources, All Weather Windows

Thank you for the opportunity today to appear before the committee to discuss Canada's current labour market and its impact on our company.

All Weather Windows is Canada's largest privately owned window and door manufacturer. Our company was founded in 1978, starting with a 10,000-square-foot manufacturing facility in Edmonton, Alberta. It has since expanded to 1,200 employees located in 10 locations across Canada. Today, All Weather Windows has two leading manufacturing plants, in Edmonton and Mississauga, with a combined capacity of nearly 400,000 square feet. They produce award-winning window and door products for dealers, builders, contractors, and homeowners.

We also have a commercial division that supplies and installs curtain walls, window walls, and commercial storefront entry systems, which has allowed our company to diversify our operations into the commercial glass industry.

Based in Edmonton, Alberta, we have been recognized as one of Canada's 50 best managed companies for the last four consecutive years and as one of Canada's 50 most engaged workplaces for the last two years. We received the Energy Star Manufacturer of the Year award for windows and doors in 2010 and 2011.

The current labour shortage in Canada, and more specifically in the western provinces, has impacted our ability to fill critical positions. We have experienced difficulty filling many semi-skilled and skilled positions across our company. For instance, we have struggled to fill vacancies for skilled glass trades professionals in our commercial division operations. In fact, we have been unable to fill several vacancies for commercial glaziers in our Winnipeg, Manitoba, location for more than six months. In this particular instance, some of the difficulty lies in our inability to attract people to move to Winnipeg because of lower wages as compared to other parts of Canada, namely Alberta, B.C., and Ontario.

Additionally, we are having difficulty filling other positions, such as commercial project managers, maintenance technicians, and research and development specialists. The difficulty in filling these roles is a lack of candidates who have the required qualifications and experience to perform the duties required.

With respect to hiring for our production lines, we have encountered another issue. Due to the shortages in the labour pool, particularly in Alberta, we have been hiring people who speak zero English—not bad English, but zero English—which creates production, training, and safety issues. We have responded by pairing people with other employees who have the ability to translate for them, but this is less than ideal and is a consequence of the labour shortage.

The highlighted examples slow our ability to move forward with projects and initiatives.

In response to these challenges, we have undertaken several different strategies to try to fill these roles, with varying degrees of success. Some of the strategies include using job boards and newspapers. We have had mixed results filling positions through these traditional job posting methods. We use national websites, such as Workopolis and Monster, industry associations, niche websites, such as Kijiji and craigslist, and job aggregators, such as Indeed and Simply Hired, to name a few. Our recruitment efforts in newspapers have declined substantially over the last two years due to the high cost and the low degree of success in filling vacancies.

Employee referral and word of mouth tends to be our best and most reliable source for filling production-related positions. It has resulted in many professional-level hires as well. In fact, approximately 65% of our production worker hires come through this channel.

We have filled a few positions this year using agencies, although this tends to be the most expensive recruitment method. It usually costs between 20% to 25% of the starting employee's first-year base salary. Search firms, as well, appear to be having greater difficulty finding qualified applicants to submit to us.

We have had some success recruiting through more professional social media networking sites, such as Linkedln. This pipeline seems to be better for recruiting for more senior-level roles in our organization.

We have built some relationships within the local community that have helped us to recruit recent Canadian immigrants. An example is the Edmonton Mennonite Center for Newcomers.

We have post-secondary partnerships. We have been working with post-secondary institutions to ensure that graduates coming from these schools have the skills necessary to immediately enter the workforce. We have supported both the technical colleges, such as the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, and the universities, such as the University of Alberta, through scholarship programs and support for internships.

As well, due to the diversity of the employees we recruit, we have also worked with NorQuest College to help facilitate English as a second language classes—or ESL—for some of our production staff.

With respect to foreign worker recruitment, we have failed at two previous attempts to acquire labour market opinions, or LMOs, to hire skilled labour. Each time we failed because the wage we were offering for the position did not meet the prevailing wage as calculated by HRSDC. We are again in the process of completing an LMO to give us the ability to recruit commercial glaziers internationally.

With respect to career fairs, we are taking part in a Working Abroad Expo, along with other construction and manufacturing employers from Alberta and Manitoba, on October 6 and 7 in Dublin, Ireland. We are hoping to recruit skilled labour in the glass trade for our commercial business.

All Weather Windows applauds the recent changes announced by the government, including changes to the temporary foreign worker program and the fast-tracking of the LMO for select employers. That said, we believe more could be done to create a modern and supportive framework to help fill our need to hire semi-skilled and skilled labour, including the following.

Expand pathways to permanent residency by expanding the Canadian experience class to give low- and semi-skilled temporary foreign workers the right to apply for permanent residency after three years of work experience with his or her employer. Consideration should be given to employer recommendations, satisfactory background checks, appropriate prior experience in country of origin, and minimum language proficiency requirements.

Create a process to notify employers of any changes to processes or information utilized in the calculation and submission of their initial LMO application. This gives employers the opportunity to update applications and avoid costly delays, particularly in the case of prevailing wage rates.

Implement a timely and responsive appeal process, with a full detailed report, for employers and temporary foreign workers—or TFWs—who are denied applications, while remaining responsive to industry-specific labour shortages.

Amend the advertising criteria for LMOs to allow companies from the same sector to advertise jointly rather than as individual organizations.

Consider broad information sources in determining the appropriate salary or wage level, including the industry sector surveys that often can be provided by employers and employer associations.

Temporary foreign workers should be allowed to enter Canada with nominal paperwork and delay. Also, pre-qualified trusted companies should be provided the ability to be exempt from the bureaucratic processes that delay entrance today.

The immigration system must be more efficient in selecting the qualified personnel that industry needs and in streamlining them through the immigration process.

These policy changes will help create a more flexible and responsive labour pool of domestic and foreign-trained workers that will allow not only our company, but others as well, to fully capitalize on the economic opportunities before us.

Thank you. I look forward to our discussion.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much for that presentation.

Before we start, I just want to mention to committee members that I want to suspend a bit early today to discuss future business and some witnesses, which we need to prepare for the clerk. But we'll talk about that at the conclusion of this particular segment of our committee hearings.

We'll start with Mr. Cleary.

Go ahead.

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing before the committee.

Mr. Salkeld, I wrote down one of your quotes here. You talked about how your members would look to seek workers from outside the country.

Mr. Taylor, just a few moments ago you said that temporary foreign workers should be allowed to enter Canada with minimal paperwork.

So you both acknowledge that you need temporary foreign workers.

I want to read you a quick quote, and then I'll get right to my question. The quote is only one line:

We’ve been able to document literally hundreds of cases of temporary foreign workers who’ve had their rights in the workplace ignored and undermined: everything from wages that have not been paid, or where they wound up paid less than they were promised, hundreds of cases of workers being asked to pay exorbitant fees to brokers for the privilege of getting a low wage job. In some cases workers were brought in to work in the service sector, paying $6000 to a broker. These fees are illegal but they’re being charged anyway.

That quote is from a gentleman you probably know. His name is Gil McGowan. He is the president of the Alberta Federation of Labour.

According to some statistics we've gathered, in terms of the dramatic growth of temporary foreign workers, we've gone from 20,000 five years ago to.... It peaked as high as 65,000 in 2009. So when this man, this Mr. McGowan, talks about foreign labourers and the experience in Alberta, he probably has a good idea of what he's talking about.

My question for both you gentlemen is this. From that quote, we understand there have been a number of problems with the bringing in of temporary foreign workers. What are your solutions to these problems? How do you get around them?

10:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Petroleum Services Association of Canada

Mark Salkeld

I read a very similar report by the University of Alberta and was very disappointed by that outcome.

One circumstance I can relate is where a PSAC member company recruited out of Mexico. We brought in experienced rig hands from Mexico. They were paid Canadian wages. They stayed in camps up in Fort McMurray, wherever the work was. They were given their days off on a regular basis and sent home, and they returned, like with any other Canadian crew working in a similar circumstance.

Absolutely, I can't deny the fact that I've read all sorts of reports as well on the abuse. A solution is to closely monitor the companies that bring in those workers and understand exactly what they're doing. I believe that report also recommends more frequent inspections or follow-ups by the regulatory bodies that give the permissions initially, to ensure the treatment of these labourers—labourers, or however they're working.

From my experience on the petroleum services side, it's a very hard, arduous process to go through. When you get through it, you look after those employees so that they return.

10:10 a.m.

Director, Human Resources, All Weather Windows

Paul Taylor

Yes, I would agree with what Mark said. Our experience, even my previous experience before All Weather Windows, in bringing in temporary foreign workers is that you want these people to stay, so obviously it's really important that you provide a safe, great workplace for them.

Part of what I recommended in my recommendations at the end was having trusted companies, those companies that have been found to use the system correctly, that have treated temporary foreign workers correctly. Those are the ones that should benefit from bringing in temporary foreign workers in more of an expedited process, as compared with people who haven't been proven to use the system correctly, as Mark alluded to in an example.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Given the fact that, as Mr. McGowan said, there have been literally hundreds of cases of temporary workers who’ve had their rights abused, is it fair to say that before we increase the temporary foreign worker program or before we bring in more temporary foreign workers, we should actually tighten up the rules, take a better look at this program to see how it's working and whether it's actually working for the workers who are being brought in?

10:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Petroleum Services Association of Canada

Mark Salkeld

What I'd recommend is that we look to Canada first, look to employ Canadians first, and then look to temporary foreign workers as an alternative. I agree. Tighten it up, monitor it.

It's not an easy process now. We have a number of member companies that have gone through that whole LMO process and failed. We recommend an accelerated LMO process for those member companies that have had success, such as this company with the Mexican workers that I mentioned.

Absolutely, it needs to be looked at, because there is abuse. That's just not right, and it's not good for our reputation, so I strongly recommend that.

But first and foremost, let's look to first nations. Let's look to Canadians and get them employed, because there are a lot here in Canada, across this country, who are unemployed and need work first.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Thank you.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you. Your time is up.

We'll now move to Mr. Shory.