Human Resources Committee on March 5th, 2013

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you ladies for being with us. Earlier we had only men, and now, we have only women.

We learned that the number of people with disabilities who had started receiving social assistance went up 38%. That appears to be the usual pattern after the age of 19. Education is important, but when people have trouble entering the workforce, it calls for more than just education.

Ms. Bergeron, you've already commented on this, and I'd like to know what the others think.

How can the federal government support the transition from school to the job market?

Yes, Ms. Beckett?

[Jean Beckett]

Yes, as I mentioned earlier, it's very difficult sometimes when people develop mental illness during their teens. It definitely interrupts education. They start to get better and are told they need something to do, so they end up volunteering instead of getting a paid job.

I've been volunteering now for 30 years. I need to be paid, as do people with mental health issues. We need paying jobs, and we need technologies as well. When people's education is interrupted, they not only miss the education piece, but they miss a lot of that experiential stuff that students go through. They become isolated and no longer part of the group. Anybody who wasn't popular in high school knows what I mean by that.

What we need to do is huge public education; yes, we need to deal with that. We need to address youth issues if we're going to deal with mental health issues, because they quite often strike in youth.

We also need to help people be connected with technology. Many people with mental health issues end up very isolated because they're living on income security programs that don't properly fund them. They end up living in a dump or on the streets, or they end up living in a house that you wouldn't wish upon your worst enemy, or they end up moving up north, where I am, and they live in hunt camps; they live in the bush and they live in substandard housing. That enables them to have a roof over their head, but it creates problems in and of itself, because there's no transportation when they live out in the bush, so they're really isolated.

People need connectivity. There are lots of programs in which we, as grassroots organizations, give refurbished computers to people, but they can't afford the Internet access, or the phone, or the BlackBerry. If we had programs that helped provide those things for people, they could further their education, they could volunteer, they could work.

What if every municipality in Canada put in $100 a year? How many municipalities are there?

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Ms. Beckett, we hear from a great many witnesses, and we've realized that disabilities run the spectrum. Witnesses have suggested that the federal government work with community agencies in order to better identify the needs that exist.

I'll give you an example of a completely different program, the Homelessness Partnering Strategy. Under that program, local communities work with the government. They are familiar with the local realities.

Could that kind of cooperative approach help people with disabilities?

[Jean Beckett]

It certainly would help, but it's no good without the consumer involvement. You really need to talk to the people. You need local participation.

As a national network, we have tried to network people across Canada so that they're able to have a voice. Unfortunately, as things go, as funding erodes and erodes, we have less ability to do that. The technology could help us, if we had the technology. It's very easy. We came here because we got an e-mail. If we can connect people, then things will work, but you have to do that locally, regionally, and nationally.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Both cases present specific needs. Episodic mental health issues come to mind, for example. There are specific needs in those cases as well.

How can the federal government know what those specific needs are if it does not communicate with groups on the ground?

Do you think partnerships with groups doing the work on the ground, who know the reality, could prove useful?

Ms. Bergeron, Ms. Flatt or Ms. Robbins, would you care to comment?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Madame Boutin-Sweet, your time is up.

I think Ms. Bergeron has a comment. Then we will move to Ms. Beckett or Ms. Flatt.

Go ahead, Ms. Bergeron.

[Diane Bergeron]

I think it's really important to work at the grassroots level with the organizations that provide service to people with disabilities, regardless of what the disability is. It's the people on the ground who understand best what services they need. It's the people who are providing services who understand how they can provide the service to those individuals. Absolutely, working right in the community and in partnerships with the community is the best way to go.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Ms. Flatt.

[Julie Flatt, Interim National Executive Director, National Network for Mental Health]

I would reiterate what Diane just said. That is part of our organization. We're trying to reignite our grassroots and develop the membership again so that we can get the interconnection with communities going to the national level. Then the national level comes to you. But we're speaking with one voice because we're all consumers. We very much want to get back to the grassroots, with the members telling us what their needs are in the communities, and us giving the information to you or whoever needs it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much. Does anyone else wish to comment?

I thought I heard Madame Boutin-Sweet say she liked the homelessness partnering strategy because of the local community interaction at the grassroots level. I did, so that's good.

We'll now move to Mr. Daniel.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the witnesses for being here.

My questions are going to be mainly directed to the CNIB folks. One of the things that's not clear to me is what sorts of jobs the people who are blind or severely visually handicapped are getting. You said 30% are being employed. What sorts of jobs do they have?

[Diane Bergeron]

I don't have exact stats. What I can say is that the majority of the people I know work in situations where computer technology is important. The majority, as far as I can tell, would be around office work and working within organizations. It doesn't stop people. The technology now is so amazing. People with disabilities are doing so many things. I know in the United States there's a medical doctor who is visually impaired. We have two partially sighted researchers in Canada working in research for cancer. There's really no limit to what someone with a visual disability can do if the technology is there to help.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

The CNIB has been involved with the World Blind Union in creating Project Aspiro. It's a career planning and employment website for people who are blind or partially sighted.

Can you tell us a bit more about this project? When did the CNIB launch this website? How many people may have actually visited the website?

[Diane Bergeron]

Project Aspiro was jointly funded between, I believe it was, the Ontario government, CNIB, the World Blind Union, and one other partner that I cannot remember off the top of my head.

It's a website that employers and employees who are blind or partially sighted can go to for information about what employees may need if they have vision loss. It's also for employees to understand what they can do to make themselves more employable and give them more skill sets. It's an online resource that provides education and awareness to both employers and employees. I don't have the stats on how many people have visited it, but I can get that for you.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

How many blind or partially blind individuals do you think will find employment through this assistance program of your website?

[Diane Bergeron]

I would like to believe that 100% who are looking for work will find employment, but I don't know because I'm not really sure how many individuals have gone on it. The key to any educational or awareness website is that people need to go there to find out the information.

We are promoting the website, but it was only launched last October, I believe. Like anything, it takes time for that information to get out into the community and for people to get out and use it as a resource.

I can't help but think that anybody going on there will learn something that will hopefully translate into jobs.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Does the website provide information, for example, on tools and resources that employers need to have to be able to confidently hire people who are blind or partially sighted?

[Diane Bergeron]

Yes, there is a link there for employers, and it talks about adaptive equipment, accommodation needs. It does some sensitivity training and it provides resources for employers to be able to go on and see different ways to accommodate people with different types of vision loss.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

One of the things we've heard about many programs, including some of the apprenticeship work we did earlier, is the importance of mentorship. Presumably, mentorship is also good for folks with impaired visual issues. Do you have a mentorship program where you can actually help people who are already in a job, or help people who are not?

[Diane Bergeron]

We don't have a formal mentorship program, but within the CNIB itself—and we hire people with vision loss—we do help support each other, and also out in the community on an informal basis. We're starting to put together a youth council for CNIB. There are already a couple started in some of our divisions. We're trying to work that out across the country. Part of that youth council is looking at mentorship within board structures and so on. That's providing our youth with mentorship to learn some of the soft skills that are necessary. But at this point, that's all I know of that we have.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

We'll now move to Ms. Charlton. Go ahead.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thanks to all of you for being here today. I really appreciate your presentations. I think even for people who don't believe that a diverse society necessarily strengthens our community, who have a rational self-interest, ought to be taking an interest in these issues, because any one of us could be disabled at a moment's notice.

I want to explore that thought a little bit. Although we don't get very solid data anymore, particularly since the suppression of the PALS, do you have a sense of whether it's easier for folks who become disabled while they're already working, whether accommodation is more readily made?

When I think about people in industrial plants, for example, who end up being injured on the job, if they have an active union, accommodation is more likely than not made for those individuals, and they're able to continue to participate in the workplace, whereas employers are much more reluctant to make those accommodations at the front end. But that's purely impressionistic, and I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[Jean Beckett]

For people with mental health issues, that isn't always the case. I do a lot of volunteer work, as I mentioned, and I sit on boards of directors. I have been on boards of directors where I've seen bylaws that state that you must be of sound mind to be on that board, so people look at me funny if I mention a mental health issue. This is the challenge we face. I think you're right that it's easier once you're in the job, but I think that depends on the job as well. Unfortunately, for a lot of people with disabilities, the jobs we get are front-line, menial jobs, where you're just a pair of arms and legs, and if you develop a problem you're out the door and somebody else will take your place.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thanks.

I think to some extent that speaks to the other part of my question, and perhaps I'll turn it over to Ms. Bergeron. From your experience, is it easier for people who work in a unionized environment to be accommodated than it is for folks who, as Ms. Beckett just said, are first in, first out in relatively menial jobs?