Evidence of meeting #78 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Director, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Once the federal offer is made, it would be with a specific allocation, and it's based on the same funding level. That is what was announced in the budget. It's the same funding level.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
The question that has been asked about this new arrangement that was announced in the budget is this: if a province is experiencing some financial hardship now and it's not able to match the funding when it's one-third, one-third, one-third, would the money on the table from the federal government lapse?
11:50 a.m.
Director, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
That will be subject to the negotiations with the provinces and territories when they begin.
11:50 a.m.
Director, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
The government has indicated its intention to renew the labour market agreements in 2014. It intends to negotiate the renewal and transformation and introduction of the Canada job grant with the provinces and territories through negotiations over the next year. This is a partnership arrangement, and it will also do so in consultation with employers and stakeholders. That's what the budget has indicated and the government has indicated.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
That's about as good a non-answer as you can give. I commend you on that.
11:55 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
The 2008 report on the expert panel on older workers set out 13 recommendations. Are you comfortable identifying the ones that were moved on and the ones that weren't acted on?
11:55 a.m.
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
That report was published in 2008. The first recommendation was for an awareness campaign to promote the value of older workers, because sometimes they are discriminated against. The department undertook a number of initiatives. The department created the National Seniors Council to reach out, to consult. In 2011 HRSDC also announced a national consultation, as I mentioned, to reach out to employers and to older workers to understand the workplace dynamics and to look for—
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I apologize, but I have only one minute left. Are there a couple of the recommendations that haven't been acted upon? That might be best.
11:55 a.m.
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
A number of them were put in place.
As for those that were not acted on, there was a recommendation to launch a new national longitudinal survey of work-to-retirement transitions. That was not acted on, although we did finance a survey of older workers in 2008. It was not longitudinal, but a survey was done. There was a recommendation to establish a centre for the study of implications of the aging population. I'm not aware that this was acted on. There was a recommendation to test the viability and cost-effectiveness of a wage insurance plan. I'm not aware that this was acted on.
Those are examples of measures that were not implemented.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
A wage insurance plan, Mr. Cuzner, may be something you want to look into.
Moving on to our next questioner, go ahead, Mr. McColeman.
11:55 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
I'm just waiting for Mr. Cuzner to finish.
First of all, thank you, witnesses, for being here and kicking off this study and giving us the valuable background. Particularly, the notes here are very well done.
There's a popularized notion being debunked here when I read:
The labour market performance of older Canadians has been relatively strong over the past decade as they experienced low levels of unemployment and the greatest increases in participation and employment when compared to other age groups.
I almost think that there has been a message out in public that we have a category of individuals reaching this point in their work life cycle who, all of a sudden, are out there unemployed in mass numbers. Now they are unemployed, as your numbers indicate, but in fact they are performing better than other categories.
Am I correct in debunking the myth that is perhaps out there in the public realm?
11:55 a.m.
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
The fact that older Canadians are doing better in terms of employment is due to the experience they have and the employers' wanting to keep that experience. If employers face difficulties, they want to keep these workers. Often, they will let go the less experienced and the young people. That explains, I think, why older workers are valued and kept.
The problem is when they are displaced and lose their jobs, when they become unemployed. This is when trouble starts for them. When you look at how they will be able to find a job or how long they will stay unemployed, they do the worst. It is harder for them if they experience unemployment.
This is the point on which I'd like to focus. The spell of unemployment will be much longer for older workers. The loss of earnings, once they find a new job, will be more important. Their value will go down, and they're not able to find a job at the salary they used to have.
Losing a job has very dramatic consequences for an older worker.
Noon
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
I understand that and I appreciate it. Really, the nub of what our study wants to address is that very thing: how we can better provide supports to people to get through that very difficult transition in the latter part of their life.
Often their next job will be, as you've commented and as has been said today, in an occupation that does not pay as much. It's interesting to also hear you say that for quite a number of these people, as you found when you went across the country and consulted focus groups, maintaining income where it was is not as high on their list of priorities.
Is it fair to connect this, as you testified?
Noon
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
What I could say is that workers would like to find a job at the same wage. Employers will pay the prevailing wages, according to the market. If someone is displaced and has to upgrade their skills—this is just something that we observe—they are not going to be able to earn as much.
What you're raising, I think, calls into question the role of government. Where or how far should the government go in intervening in this area? The labour market allocates workers to where they're needed. A huge emphasis has been placed on improving the information we provide to workers so that they can quickly connect to the jobs that exist and that correspond to their skills.
The job alert system, which the department has improved, is sending messages every day to workers early in their process, so that they quickly find a job and get back to work. We know that the longer they stay unemployed, the more difficult it will be for them, because they're losing their skills as they are unemployed. We want to avoid that and make sure....
Perhaps what I can offer to you is that connecting people quickly to jobs is a way to mitigate the loss of skills and loss of earnings capacity. If they find a job quickly, employers are able to grow their businesses and these workers are able to continue exercising their profession, using their skills, as opposed to losing their skills.
Noon
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Of course, the trajectory of the shortage of workers in this country, both skilled and unskilled, is on an upward incline, from what we read from Statistics Canada and others, and we are predicted to be a million workers short, within the decade, of the requirements employers will have. When we travel across the country, there are already acute shortages in certain regions of the country, as we all know.
That being the context, is connecting employers' needs, as the budget initiatives have attempted to do, particularly the Canada job grant, going to...? I suppose you're implementing this and I guess your opinion isn't required here, but is it the thrust of this to connect them with the jobs that the employer needs done?
Is that correct? Is what we want to do when we negotiate with the provinces to say that we want good results from the jobs that are out there, and not only for older workers, but for disabled workers and anybody else for that matter who's looking for a job?
Noon
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I think this is correct. What's guiding the reform of transfers and the introduction of the Canada job grant is the desire to put employers right at the centre of decisions about what training is provided and to whom. It is reinforcing this training so that it's linked to real jobs.