Human Resources Committee on May 1st, 2014

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Can you see the Canadian public is losing faith in this program? The program is such now that, when you mention temporary foreign workers to people, their hackles are raised. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the government has boasted about taking the shackles off and then, with the rules it has imparted, it comes back and it has to change them and fix them later. Now you're saying that we've tightened them up. The position of the government has been contrary. Can't you agree with that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Be very quick, please.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

What I can agree with is that there is no one temporary foreign worker program. There are a whole lot of streams. I make this point because I'm sure you would agree, Mr. Cuzner, that with a factory that has shut down in Canada, that needs repairmen from the U.S. to get it back online, it needs that work permit in a matter of hours or days, not months. But a fast food franchise in an area of high youth unemployment probably shouldn't be getting a temporary foreign worker at all. So I hesitate to make overgeneralizations. I think in some areas we do want, for the sake of our economy, efficient processing. In other cases, we want no process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you. You were a little over time, but that's fine.

We'll go on to Mr. Maguire, for five minutes.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, ministers, for being here this morning and making your presentations to us in this important area.

I'd like to ask Minister Bergen a question in regard to the issues of Canadians with disabilities.

Certainly the government has done more than any other government in trying to support that area, whether it's through the opportunities fund, the registered disabilities fund in which I know the former finance minister, Minister Flaherty did a great deal of work, or the existing labour market agreement areas for persons with disabilities. Our government has championed the rights of those persons.

Could the minister please tell the committee more about what the government is doing in ridings like mine for persons with disabilities in these areas?

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Sure. You know, I've been fortunate to have been able to travel across the country and see some of the great things that are being done with the opportunities fund, for example. I know Minister Kenney has been working hard on the labour market agreements for persons with disabilities, so he might want to comment on that.

The premise of the support we provide for persons with disabilities is twofold.

First and foremost, we want to make sure barriers are removed for people with disabilities to participate in the economy and in our communities. The expert panel on persons with disabilities found that there are about 800,000 Canadians with disabilities who want to be working, and we think that if people want to be working there should not be barriers in place to discourage them.

There are things like the opportunities fund, the accessibility fund, and the newest ready, willing, and able program that we're funding that are removing barriers by physically and logistically helping persons with disabilities find work and get back into the workplace. It's also about educating employers. When you talk about the labour market and where there are gaps, we know that persons with disabilities can help fill those gaps. It's about educating employers and helping them see the value. They're seeing it more and more. The evidence and again those who are participating in programs show the value of employing people with disabilities.

The second thing we're doing, which is something that I know we are all really proud of and something our former colleague Minister Flaherty introduced, is the registered disabilities savings plan, which is the only one in the world, that is providing an opportunity and a vehicle for families to save for their children or people in their families who have disabilities. It's an amazing program with a large amount of grant money available. We know there still are some things that need to be tweaked and fixed, and we're working together with the provinces to do that, but it's something that means parents don't have to worry about what will happen when they're gone, who will look after their children, and how they can save money. The registered disabilities savings plan is doing that. We feel it's our responsibility, and we've talked about it in previous budgets, to make it better and to promote it so that more and more families know about it.

We also just introduced in our last budget additional support for special Olympics. Again, this is an opportunity to remove barriers and help kids who are making such a great contribution and making all of our lives so much richer.

Again, we're working in a number of areas, primarily to remove those barriers and help people with disabilities get to work, help them access the community, and help families to support their dependants and their family members.

Did you want to comment on the labour market agreements?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes.

Labour market agreements for persons with disabilities—these are five-year agreements—expired at the end of March, at the end of this past fiscal year. We entered into discussions with the provinces in 2013 about their renewal. We indicated that we wanted to ensure that the dollars were being spent on their intended purpose, which is employment support for persons with disabilities. Quite frankly, we thought there was too much of a blank-cheque approach happening. Provinces were using these funds on anything remotely related to persons with disabilities, including offsetting their health care costs for care of persons with disabilities.

You know what? We transfer, I don't know, $30 billion, give or take, to provinces for health care. They should be taking care of health care with those dollars. The LMAPD dollars, we believe, should be dedicated to employment support, so we've tightened up that definition in the agreements. We had a little bit of pushback from provinces, but we didn't budge. I'm pleased to say that we're getting those agreements done, and we've signed several. We're confident that we'll have a full suite of 13 signed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much.

That ends the first round. Now we move to the second round of questioning.

Ms. Sims, for five minutes.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

[Inaudible—Editor]...the first hour.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Okay.

Madame Groguhé, go ahead.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your testimony.

Minister, I have a more specific question to ask you about the Temporary Foreign Worker Program.

It is clear that we all recognize that this program has derailed and been abused. Time and time again, you have explained that you wish to better control the program through investigations of certain fraudulent employers, because the number of cases has ballooned.

Could you tell us exactly how you plan to go about it? We have learned that at least 56 inspection officer positions were going to be cut. Does that mean that, in terms of staffing, there will not be enough inspectors to ensure that this program is set to rights?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you for the question.

Unfortunately, I do not agree with these numbers. They do not make any sense to me.

In fact, our government created a new Service Canada section to uphold the law. There are people who focus exclusively on this process. Our numbers do not match up with this allegation.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

In that case, would it be possible do know exactly how many people are working exclusively on these investigations?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I will be happy to provide the committee with that information.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you.

As I was saying earlier, you agree with me that this program is no longer working properly. Could you ask the Auditor General to undertake an independent assessment?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

If he wants to.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

You won't ask him to?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I don't think it is the government's role to interfere with the Auditor General's work. He is perfectly capable of choosing the files he wants to consider.

In 2009, the Auditor General at the time undertook a review of the program. I am pleased to inform you that the government accepted all the recommendations in her 2009 report. We have implemented approximately three quarters of those recommendations.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Apparently that has not been enough since 2009 to deal with the problem and prevent abuse.

Some very negative effects have been recorded and discussed, including an increase in unemployment levels in Alberta and British Columbia. Furthermore, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, 25% of the jobs that were created have been filled by temporary foreign workers.

How is your department going to correct the situation? What is your plan to deal with these negative repercussions?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

In November 2012, Minister Finley and myself undertook a series of consultations on the reform of the Temporary Foreign Workers Program. This led to the first step of our reform that we announced a year ago, in April 2013. It is a multi-stage process. It led to a decrease in requests for labour market opinions, among other things.

One year ago we stated our intention to begin the second stage of our reform. I am currently working on the details of that second stage. If you have any suggestions on how we can ensure that there is neither abuse nor distortion of the labour market, I would be open to hearing constructive ideas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

You actually have 15 seconds. Do you wish to use it?

Be very quick.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Several of my colleagues have spoken to me about the Skills Link Program. Many organizations have been participating in the program for a long time and they are dealing with unreasonable delays in the processing time for funding applications.

What measures do you intend on taking to resolve this problem as quickly as possible? When they contact Service Canada, they can't actually get any information.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Are you referring to funding applications under the Canada's Skills Link Program?

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

It is the Skills Link Program.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

At times, some MPs have asked me to accelerate the process, but I do not know what the processing time for these applications is.