Human Resources Committee on Dec. 6th, 2023

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I have one other quick question.

We heard, particularly from Christine, that there are some things you don't have. It started off with data, research, etc. What other kinds of support do volunteers need? Are there supports that are particularly important when it comes to intergenerational volunteering?

[Christine Trauttmansdorff]

Data is a very important one, to understand the dynamics. I mentioned that the city of Ottawa has over a million people in it, and there's a lot of variety throughout the community. Older people are not a homogenous group. There are a lot of differences in terms of language, cultural background and ability to participate in activities. I think that data piece really becomes the basis.

We spend a lot of time thinking about inclusion and making volunteering not just accessible to people but truly inviting to people. I think that's another area where some of the deep research and policy thinking about equity, diversity and inclusion is. How to introduce that into the organizations that are hosting volunteers is something that small organizations can't do on their own.

There are a lot of things related to police checks, reference checks and the screening process for volunteering that are really sort of system-wide and need developed platforms established that can make that whole process easier, to make the whole onboarding process for a volunteer less threatening for many people who maybe haven't been through something like that before. It would also be smoother, more efficient and of lower cost for the volunteering organizations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Many thanks to the two witnesses for being with us today.

I want to acknowledge Ms. Campeau in particular. Thank you, Ms. Campeau, for accepting our invitation to appear before the committee.

I can tell my colleagues that Le Petit Peuple, which is in my riding, has a fairly unique mission.

Our committee's study is specifically about intergenerational volunteerism, not volunteer work in general. Le Petit Peuple is a good example of an organization focused on the objective of intergenerational volunteerism.

Ms. Campeau, you have already given us a few answers and ideas to explore in order to promote intergenerational volunteerism.

Can you think of any other tools? You talked about long-term funding and what is happening in Quebec, and rightly so. I gather that poses a particular challenge for an organization focusing on intergenerational work. It has an impact on the type of application, which seems to be more problematic.

Can you elaborate on that?

[Jeanne Campeau]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Chabot.

We are a very small organization and we do our best to keep going with what we have, but there are complications.

Since we have two very different client groups, we do not always meet a number of the criteria for grants, which are either for young people or for seniors. We have received funding under the New Horizons for Seniors Program and the Quebec Age-Friendly Program. Unfortunately, those contributions are for a limited time.

For a small organization, the greatest challenge is obtaining long-term funding. In my opinion, there should be programs specifically for intergenerational volunteerism, given its complexity. I think it is a fascinating solution, for both young people and seniors in our society.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

In practical terms, if there were programs specifically for intergenerational issues, that would answer the question as to which program could provide a grant. Organizations that focus on young people do not alway have the same mission as those that focus on seniors. The New Horizons for Seniors Program has very specific criteria, but they do not necessarily match those for young people. Your suggestion is a good idea.

Is it difficult to submit a program application? Would you recommend any technical or administrative changes?

[Jeanne Campeau]

It is actually very difficult.

For my part, I have been involved with Le Petit Peuple for about ten years, but have been its director for just a year. This year, I submitted at least ten grant applications. It is difficult and each application is unique.

Further, they have to be done again and again. New ideas for projects have to be presented even though we already have our project. We already have activities. We have a formula that works. We would simply like it to continue. In addition to being time-consuming, applications are labour-intensive. Given all the time we spend completing applications, we are unfortunately left with less time to help the community.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I have one last question.

We are starting our study, but one witness has already said there is a crisis in volunteerism. I thought that was a bit of an overstatement, but perhaps it is true. There is indeed a housing crisis, a public finance crisis and an economic crisis.

Ms. Campeau, would you say that the commitment to volunteer work has declined, among young people and seniors alike? The pandemic complicated matters, but I would like you to think further back. Is is easy to find volunteers?

[Jeanne Campeau]

There is definitely a huge drop in engagement among young people, families and seniors. I think it's mostly related to the economic situation.

As I said earlier, we have young people of all ages, but especially young people between the ages of 13 and 17. For a few years now, these young people have been working as soon as they turn 15. They go to school and they work, so they don't have the time to volunteer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Campeau.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have six minutes, please.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

This study is about intergenerational volunteerism, so I am interested when I hear these unique aspects that differentiate between intergenerational volunteering and volunteering in general.

I'm going to ask both witnesses. Maybe I can start with Ms. Trauttmansdorff and then go on to Madame Campeau.

With regard to infrastructure needed and value to the volunteers, how does intergenerational volunteering differ from what you would consider regular volunteering?

[Christine Trauttmansdorff]

It's an interesting question, and it's one that I reflected on even in preparing for this, because I don't think about intergenerational volunteering as being something very distinct. There are many collisions and meetings that happen around volunteering, and they all need to be carefully curated and attended to in order to make sure that people have what they need in order to come together successfully.

In terms of volunteer management itself, I'm not in the business of volunteer management. We recruit volunteers and then put them at the disposal of the organizations we serve. The profession of volunteer management would be where those intergenerational challenges and opportunities.... The examples we heard from Madame Campeau today are really inspiring.

Developing those programs and thinking about what is going to make them work and what is appropriate to the specific context is very much the work of the organizations where volunteers are working. Volunteer management is a very specialized, unique kind of human resources management, except you're working to fill 40 hours of work. You probably have a couple of hundred people who are coming in to do a couple of hours every second week rather than a full shift. They're not getting a paycheque, so you have to think very carefully about what their motivations are, what kinds of rewards and recognition they want and what's going to keep them coming back.

Training is always a big thing, and that's something that I think is very specific to intergenerational volunteering around the use of technology and around communications.

One of the challenges we're trying to address is the need for more diversity around board tables in charities and non-profits. That includes youth, the experience that older people bring to a board table, and many other dimensions of diversity in order to make sure that, right at the top of the organization in terms of direction setting, strategy and priorities, those boards are really equipped to set the direction for the organizations in an appropriate way during a time when everything is changing.

I also think that, for youth participation on boards, where we think of that as being something more for older people, a particular challenge is making sure that youth are really welcome at those tables, that they get the support and the mentorship they need and that their voices are really heard.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

Madame Campeau, I wonder if you could share some of the differentiation factors in infrastructure and value to volunteers. I know you raised one, which was the funding mechanism. Could you share if there are others?

[Jeanne Campeau]

In terms of infrastructure, we need adapted buildings, which are equipped, for example, with ramps for people with reduced mobility.

One of our challenges is the availability of time slots for these two groups to meet. Those people do not have the same schedules. Young people are in school during the day, but older people usually show up during the day. Those two distinct realities require highly qualified personnel. Even in terms of the organization of activities, those are two categories of people who have very different objectives and needs when it comes to volunteering. So we have to align those two realities.

I've been with Le Petit People for a long time. We are talking about intergenerational practices, but, for me, that is still volunteering. However, it is difficult to compare it to other forms of volunteering, such as traditional volunteering.

Ms. Trauttmansdorff was talking about board tables. We work on youth board tables and seniors board tables. I think it would be really relevant to have a board table that could bring the two groups together to look at our distinct realities.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That's great. Thank you very much.

Just on that, talking about tables, Madame Campeau, you talked about community kitchens. You talked about food. I think there was mention of transportation. These are two topics that have come up in the past, which are the bus passes or the transportation piece and this idea of sharing food together.

I wonder, Madame Campeau, if you can talk about how the federal government could maybe assist in those factors that are enticing people to come together and that are needed to bring people together.

[Jeanne Campeau]

I want to make sure I understand your question. Could you repeat it?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Yes. I guess on a federal level, it's thinking about how we can help to entice intergenerational volunteerism to expand not just volunteerism in Canada but the value to the volunteers. I think we're trying to build connection, relationships and community sometimes.

There are two factors that seem to come back. There's this need for transportation, such as bus passes or access to bus passes. The other one that comes back is around food. You mentioned community kitchens, but you also mentioned sharing food preparation skills. I'm wondering if there is a place here for the federal government to assist, through those two channels of food and transportation, to make intergenerational volunteering a success. It's a big question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Please give a short answer, Ms. Campeau.

[Jeanne Campeau]

It depends on the grants we obtain. For example, for transportation, we were able to buy a van, but the number of seats is limited.

Furthermore, I don't think I have as strong a volunteer base as the other witness, but I would say that, because of the housing crisis and the fact that food banks can't meet the demand, people sometimes have trouble feeding themselves and are less likely to volunteer. They will start with trying to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. So it all depends on our funding, mainly because our services are free. All the services we provide to seniors are free.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Campeau and Ms. Zarrillo.

Mr. Aitchison, you have five minutes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to focus on something Ms. Trauttmansdorff said.

You referenced something that a previous witness from Kelowna mentioned around the food bank. I've heard it many times as well. It's not just in the volunteer sector but also in all kinds of sectors. There are painfully long applications for funding programs. We talk a lot about the CMHC around here, as an example.

I was looking at your organization's annual report. There are a number of different organizations listed there—Employment Ontario, Ottawa Community Foundation, United Way, Canada summer jobs, Ontario Trillium Foundation and the City of Ottawa. I'm assuming that there is a long, painful application process for each of those. Even with some of the corporate sponsors, there's probably an application process as well.

This is one of those areas where I recognize that government does play a role in assisting community organizations. It's not a bad thing, but I am still a Conservative. I'm always looking for ways to do things better, more efficiently and more effectively. We can do more with less, for example.

I note that you worked in this place at one time, so you understand a little bit how it works. Do you have any thoughts on what you might do differently? How could you structure a system where there were fewer applications or trusted organizations or whatever it might be? Can you give us some thoughts on that?

[Christine Trauttmansdorff]

Yes. Thank you very much for that question. It's a really important and fundamental question.

I think the charitable and non-profit sectors in Canada should be seen and perceived as partners to government. We're helping to deliver services and programs to fill gaps and to respond to local needs. Only someone who's really based in that community has the networks to bring together the resources in that community to address a need that a government, especially the federal government, could never tackle.

“Trust” is a really important word. I think the big issue is multi-year funding. Every grant I have, except for one, is for one year or less. Your timing horizon or planning horizon is always short-term. There's no such thing as a permanent job. Every year starts with zero in the budget. You have to build it up over the course of the year. That uncertainty just takes a toll.

The time on the grants is brutal. Madame Campeau made reference to filling out the form. There's no relation between the amount of money involved and the amount of time involved. If anything, they're in inverse order to each other.

The other thing is the difference between the time you hear about the possibility of having that money and start planning what you could do with it, the time you put in the application, the time you hear back that you've been successful, and the time when the money actually lands and you're able to start. That can be a year in time. That's not a planning horizon that a really small organization like mine can work on. It doesn't bring out the best in any of the organizations that those funding sources support.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I wonder if you could elaborate a bit on some of the work your organization does. I'm not familiar with Volunteer Ottawa. I'm from a smaller community. We certainly had programs, periodically, that would help train volunteers. Oftentimes, the local chamber of commerce would initiate something like that, for example. They did a one-off type of program.

I'm assuming your organization.... I'm looking through it here. There are members. Is there a membership fee for being a member? You generate revenue that way, as well, I take it.

[Christine Trauttmansdorff]

That's right.

When we talk about members, most of the time we're talking about our organizational members. There are, more or less, 1,400 charities in Ottawa. About 300 of them access our services directly. Many more use them indirectly, as well. They pay a membership fee to have access to our recruitment platform, our matching platform, our education programming and all of the events we hold. Individuals can be members, as well.

A lot of the training we're providing.... Earlier, I mentioned the staffing and recruitment challenges in the entire not-for-profit sector, not just in volunteer centres—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. There is no interpretation.