Evidence of meeting #85 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
November 28th, 2023 / 4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome. It's nice to see you here in person.
I just want to piggyback on some of the questions you were answering from the other side.
For the open work permit, if you had the ability to amend or or suggest some improvements, what would they be? I would like to hear from both of you.
4:15 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
This opportunity to come to Canada is voluntary. I think that has to remain that way. They are aware of what they are going to be paid and what their job responsibilities are. I believe going forward that this is a necessity.
Currently, if there are problems and it's not working for the employee as far as safety or such concerns, there is that toll-free number and the opportunity to move to an open permit within the sector. These are things that I wouldn't want to lose.
4:15 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
I would take agriculture out of the program completely. There is so much negative connotation and baggage that surrounds it through use by other industries that I think we need a stand-alone agriculture and agri-food program. Then you would be able to create a program that is specific for agriculture.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Thank you.
This program was created for vulnerable workers, which is obviously not everyone, but there are some employers who have abused their power. How else would you suggest that these vulnerable workers are supported? What other program would you suggest?
4:15 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
I'm not sure, to be honest. I think if they are given an open work permit, there already are systems in place to facilitate them moving to different employers or to get help. If they need help, they can reach out to get it. So I'm not exactly sure.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Ms. Brekveld, for the migrant worker support program, what measures would you like the federal government to implement for migrant workers so that they can be aware of the open work permit as well?
4:15 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
CAHRC's research is continuing on that through the national workforce strategic plan. I believe I'll be better able to answer that after those results have come out.
Again, I do believe that it really does have to benefit the employee and the employer. The opportunity to continue to grow the sector will be reliant on a labour force that we don't have enough of right now.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Do you believe employer-specific work permits, when coupled with increased measures to protect temporary foreign workers, are necessary in certain circumstances?
4:15 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
There are current processes in place that protect the worker and also help the employer ensure that they have the workforce they need. If there are problems and the employee is vulnerable and not in a safe situation, there are processes as well so that they can get out of that situation, and that's appropriate.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Do you believe these were in place before any of the instances happened where employees were vulnerable to being harmed by the employers?
4:20 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
I'm not sure what specific situations you're talking about.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
The ones you just mentioned; some other processes were in place before, but those didn't work. What else do we need to do to actually make sure that we protect these foreign workers?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
I would love to continue this conversation. CAHRC is eager to be part of the conversation with government on ways forward and ways to continue to improve the program.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Thank you.
We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Last week, we had representatives from the Union des producteurs agricoles, which represents Quebec's agricultural producers and which I imagine you are familiar with.
They told us they were in favour of an open permit, but sectoral and regional. Such a permit would allow a temporary worker who isn't attracted to large urban centres to work in Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, for example, but also to change location.
Would that make sense?
Earlier, you told us that this could be problematic for rural areas and urban centres.
4:20 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
I think the program you're speaking about is SAWP. For that industry, for the work they do generally, there's a lot of time required and then it gets quiet. Having the ability to move around from job site to job site would be of benefit, but that would be specific to that. For us, that would not be beneficial, because our seeding time in the spring and the harvest are the same as for everybody else.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
All right.
You told us you've never heard of any stories of mistreatment because of closed permits.
Am I misunderstanding or is that what you told us?
4:20 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
Not that I'm aware of; whether it's a Canadian citizen or a foreign worker, I am not aware of anything in my area.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
You strike me as an informed person who reads newspapers and watches television, and you also seem really knowledgeable about the program, among other things.
Yet you tell me you've never heard of temporary foreign workers on closed permits being abused by employers.
4:20 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
I didn't say that. I talked about my area.
Let's take a step back here. Sensationalism sells. You hear about it. There must be instances, otherwise these...wouldn't be happening. As Ms. Kwan mentioned, there are instances where these...have happened, and I hope those employers are dealt with swiftly.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
You never hear about the situations where everything's going great, where there's nothing but good news and the foreign workers have almost become members of the family. We mostly hear about the other stories. They may be sensationalized, but do you agree with me that one case of abuse is one case too many? If the current situation with closed permits allows for just one case of abuse, wouldn't you say we need to get organized to change the program?
4:20 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
It's interesting that, when you watch the news, the first 28 minutes out of a half-hour program is all negative news. Then, they top it off with a happy story so you can go on your—
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Thank you very much, Mr. Possberg.
I'll now go to Madame Kwan for her time.
You have two and a half minutes. Please go ahead.