Evidence of meeting #85 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Absolutely. For temporary foreign workers, the problem is that they often don't.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Madam Kwan, you are almost at the seven-minute mark.
Mr. Maguire, we'll go to you for five minutes.
November 28th, 2023 / 4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to both witnesses for your excellent presentations today. I have a couple of quick questions that you can both answer.
I just wanted to know if you are aware of any farmers who have asked the minister to introduce open work permits.
4:05 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
No.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Are you aware of whether the Liberal government has asked any farmer for their thoughts on introducing open work permits?
4:10 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
I am aware of conversations in the industry about it, but not with individual farmers.
4:10 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
I didn't get a phone call.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
We talked about costs.
Mr. Possberg, you got into this a bit. Can you please explain the costs and the time associated with applying for the LMIA, recruiting the workers, bringing them to Canada, the housing, the flights and all the rest of it? That's what I think my colleague was asking about with the costs of it. Those are included as well.
Can you give us a rough idea of that?
4:10 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
It takes a substantial amount. We've been doing this for 15 years. It gets easier over time. We have a process in place. The work permit also costs money and takes time.
For recruiting, we have a website and we have a bit of an international reputation. That, again, goes back to abuse. You build this reputation up in today's world with social media, and it doesn't take much to lose that reputation. That's another reason why you try to keep it up.
You can't measure the opportunity cost of not having a worker at the time you need them there, if they were to step off that combine or off their air drill. It's significant. It's significant enough in agriculture, where margins are as thin as they are. There isn't enough margin there, especially to have a potential half-a-million dollar piece of equipment sitting idle without someone to operate it.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
It's the time frame of getting a crop in, off and that sort of thing. I'm familiar with it.
One of the major concerns being raised about introducing open work permits is the unpredictability and the risk. There's the risk that workers are immediately changing jobs once they arrive in Canada. I think you may have alluded to that.
I wondered if you could share your concern about that.
4:10 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
We start the process in September or early October in order to get approval for the LMIA. We then try to sort through the applicants. It takes a lot of time and effort to go through them, depending on where they're from. We may not get the final work permit approval until March or April. We then pay for their flight. They arrive. We have the housing in place already, because we've had to get the housing inspection.
We already have a significant amount of money invested in that potential and in that individual. If we were to lose that individual because they got an open work permit, any other farmer could just go and wait at the airport, and as they are pulling their bags off the carousel, offer them a bit more and they could go. They wouldn't have to go through the process.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
There is significant investment, but again, it is all intended to be good for both the employer and the employee.
For the employee, we want to ensure it's a nice home and a good place to live and that all of the pieces that are required by legislation are there. For the employer, we have such a need in this industry—a 28,000-worker shortage, and that's even with the current temporary foreign workers coming in—that there is a desire to invest in our workforce who is coming.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
With an open work permit, are you concerned that the workers might leave rural communities and try to find jobs in larger centres?
I think you alluded to that, Mr. Possberg.
4:10 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
It's kind of interesting that in Saskatchewan, we are growing as a province, but it's through Saskatoon and Regina. Our rural population continues to decline, and I would expect the same if we had the open work permits.
We need foreign workers because of our population density. We have such a low population density that there are very few workers.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Yes, that goes back to your presentation.
If the government created these sectoral open work permits, meaning that the worker would still have to be employed in the same type of job but with a different employer, do you have concerns that other companies would try to poach these workers?
4:10 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
Definitely. We already have a process in place that allows them to switch employers, as long as that employer has a valid LMIA. I don't see the reason to switch to a sectoral work permit.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
I have one last thing. The Canadian Bar Association has recommended that workers, in their own language, have access to clear and transparent information about their rights under the temporary foreign worker program.
I believe this is a good idea. Do you support that recommendation?
4:10 p.m.
Kenton Possberg
I do. It's already a requirement under the program, if I'm not mistaken.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Thank you. The time is up.
Ms. Brekveld, could you provide a quick answer?
4:15 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
I am aware of it in Ontario, so I assume it's available in the language of choice in other provinces.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal