Industry Committee on Feb. 21st, 2007

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

My answer is yes and no. Our problem is a basic one, in that we feel that the Competition Tribunal is not the proper body to make those decisions. So to the extent that these pieces of legislation give responsibility for all competition issues to the Competition Tribunal, we will have to oppose them. Of course, if the legislation passes, we will certainly be more favourable to seeing compensation for consumers and small businesses. But as I mentioned, we believe that the Competition Tribunal is not the right body to deal with these issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. McTeague.

Mr. Vincent.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be sharing my time.

I would like to begin by thanking you for coming here today. It is as a result of your press conference in January that we are holding hearings, and hearing a number of other witnesses. Otherwise, things might have turned out badly, but in any case... I think that there is no doubt that you influenced the committee's decision to carry on with its study, to continue hearing witnesses. Thank you for that.

You mentioned earlier that, taken as a whole, the panel's recommendations form an interdependent balance. What concrete examples can you give us of recommendations that the minister did not choose, with the result that the balance needed for a truly competitive market may be compromised?

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

For one thing, the panel recommended a set of measures to protect consumers. An ombudsman and a user protection agency were proposed. Going back to the issue of complaints, the panel recommended a joint tribunal and not strictly a competition tribunal. Deregulation is dangerous when there is a company that is in a dominant position, and the panel would never favour that situation, whereas we feel that the minister... That is what could happen. In our opinion, this is a major problem.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Kotto.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, Ms. Rancourt.

You recommended that the minister's power to issue orders should be abolished. This comes under section 8 of the Broadcasting Act. Do you think that the existence of that provision means that the minister has to use it inappropriately, or should that power be maintained if it can be useful? I am referring here to what happened recently in the case of the Canadian Television Fund, with respect to broadcasting. In that case, the minister has the power under section 7 to intervene to issue a general policy direction to the CRTC. The minister was asked to intervene because the situation was getting serious.

In the case we are dealing with here, I consider that the minister's intervention regarding deregulation is problematic, but if the act had a provision that was used appropriately, would that not be a good thing? If we had a change in government tomorrow, for example—and this is hypothetical—we might have a new policy on this issue. If the new minister wanted to change the policy direction to the CRTC, would such a provision not be useful?

I would like to hear your comments on that.

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

The reason this power is dangerous is in fact that it can be used to change the law, as you have said, change the Canadian telecommunications policy instead of taking the legislative route. Moreover, it amounts to interference in the decisions of a body that has been created and that is quasi-judicial, independent and impartial, and those decisions are changed. Why create such a tribunal and then use a power that is not transparent, that is subject to pressure from lobby groups, that depends on the minister's ideological vision, to change decisions, policies and orientations that have been arrived at through the legislative process, which is the public and transparent approach that enables every person, every Canadian, to express his or her views?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have 30 seconds.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

That is fine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

If I understand correctly, if there were to be problems with the CRTC, you would ideally like to see the legislators being the only ones to be able to intervene, but only through legislative means.

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

Yes.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Very well. Thank you.

Mr. Carrie, it is your turn.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you very much for being here today.

How many actual registered members do you have in your organization?

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

We represent a number of family economy cooperative associations, or ACEFs, as I mentioned. They also have members—

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

—individual members.

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

We are a federation. So we are an umbrella organization. We do not have individual members.

Our mandate is not to represent members but to advocate for consumer rights.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I was just curious to know how many consumers you actually represent.

Where do you get your money from? Who funds you?

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

We get some funding from the Department of Industry, and some from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada.

I cannot give you any more details. I am not the accountant for the organization. I am not fully aware of all of our finances.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Fine. Thank you very much.

I'd like to give the rest of my time to Mr. Arthur, please.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Good afternoon, Ms. Rancourt.

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

Good afternoon.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You present your arguments in a very coherent, well-reasoned and eloquent way.

I want to know whether you are here as a telecommunications expert or as a representative of an organization.

[Marie-Ève Rancourt]

I am here as a telecommunications analyst for the Union des consommateurs.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

All right.

Did you develop the arguments that you have presented yourself, or are they the result of consultation?