Very short.
Evidence of meeting #46 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rural.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #46 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rural.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
The minister yesterday indicated in his testimony that he estimated a 1% savings for consumers for deregulation. Are you saying here today that if the regulation continues, at least in some format in this way, you'll actually provide more savings for the consumer eventually?
4:15 p.m.
Persona Cable
I can answer that.
I gave you the example that if we don't compete in markets, the consumer doesn't save 25%. That's a hard, fast example, and it happened this week.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Masse.
We'll go to Mr. Brison for five minutes, please.
February 21st, 2007 / 4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a couple of questions. I want to focus on rural Canada and specifically my riding of Kings—Hants.
According to a Library of Parliament document on local market share, in my area, in the Annapolis Valley, 96.9% of the market is with the incumbents.
I can't even get cable where I live. In fact, to get high-speed Internet, I have to install a dish. It is a different world, but it is a reality for a lot of Canadians who live in remote or small-town Canada.
In the Annapolis Valley and small-town Canada, what is the impact of this decision on prices in the short term? I'd also like you to consider what prices you see in the long term. Isn't there the potential for an inflationary effect? In fact with the big incumbents taking a more aggressive pricing strategy in the larger markets with more complete competition, is there a risk they may actually increase the price for local service in some of the other communities to try to compensate and strengthen their bottom line?
4:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
I think there's a distinct possibility that would happen. In fact the incumbent has already speculated about pricing going up in rural Saskatchewan to underwrite their competition in the major markets in Saskatoon and Regina. So I believe that's a distinct possibility, particularly if we, as the only logical facilities-based competitor, choose not to roll out our service in rural Saskatchewan.
4:20 p.m.
Persona Cable
The reality is that the incumbents do answer to shareholders. Through losing on one end, they're going to make it up on another. If they have a monopoly, I can guarantee you it's going to be made up.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I appreciate your views on the efficacy of the CRTC in terms of pushing for greater competition and decision-making compared to your views on the Competition Bureau and your expectation in terms of reaction time. Do you feel the Competition Bureau will be more or less responsive than the CRTC in terms of decision-making and the time required to make those decisions?
4:20 p.m.
Persona Cable
You know, I'm always fighting with the CRTC over something or another, but the good news with the CRTC and the Competition Bureau is that I understand the rules. The rules are set out.
What happened a couple of months ago, when the minister changed the rules basically overnight, was that the millions of dollars we've put in as an investment were put at risk. That's not fair. That's not the way to do it.
So I can live within the rules. I might not like the rules, and I do fight against them an awful lot, but I can live with that.
In terms of going into a new market, I don't think I'm going to rely on the Competition Bureau to solve my problem. I just don't think I would launch, because I can't wait five, six.... I think the Competition Bureau said last week that if they're really quick and on the ball they can turn something around in five months. Well, I can tell you, my business is toast in five months. I don't think I'll put my hard-earned dollars into that, that's for sure.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
In terms of the overall package of recommendations in the TPRP, would you feel comfortable with the overall package if we were moving forward with a reform of our regulatory approach of the industry? Instead of cherry-picking and overturning CRTC decisions, sort of systematically debilitating it through a series of ministerial decisions, would you feel comfortable with the overall direction of the TPRP report if it were done as part of an overall reform package?
4:20 p.m.
Persona Cable
Yes, I think I could live with that, quite frankly. In a managed fashion, and ensuring that new entrants into a market have some opportunity to get their feet grounded.... Other than that, yes.
I think this whole group is very pro-competition. That's our future. We want to compete; we just want to have a chance to compete.
4:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Barrett Xplore
I think there's a lot of good in TPR, but one of the observations on our part is that it does not speak to satellite.
The whole issue we're facing as an industry is continuing technological change. There are parts of this globe that will see wireless, broadband, and satellite broadband before they ever see a wired service. And the challenge for TPR or the challenge for any regulatory regime is how to ensure that you keep up with technology.
I think there is a significant miss there in that I don't see satellite mentioned extensively. In our view, when you look at the breadth of our geography and the dispersion of population over that geography, satellite has to play a key role.
Using the satellite example specifically or more generally, regulation must keep up with technological change.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
That approach would certainly be preferable to changing the rules retroactively after large investments had been made on our part and on the part of others.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Brison.
We'll go to Mr. Van Kesteren, please.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of you for coming out.
I want you to know at the outset that I'm very sympathetic to your cause--I'm a small business owner myself, and Mr. MacDonald, picked it, I'm a car dealer--but you have to help me understand something.
Believe me, when I hear your concerns my ears pop up, because as I said, I'm a small business owner. In our particular case, we're being forced to go image. That means we have to invest $1 million, $1.5 million just to make the place look pretty.
So I know about investing money. And we do the same thing, we look at the possibilities. But we have another scenario in our business: the customer can go to my store and get his best price, and then he can go to the next store.
So I'm familiar with that. What I don't understand is what's the difference in your business? Why can't you do the same thing?
If somebody calls me and says we'd like to...with this forbearance, folds...why can't you call them back, ask what they said, and say, “Well, you know, we'll do a little bit better”?
I don't understand that.
4:25 p.m.
Persona Cable
I find it hard to believe you can't understand that as a small business owner. If you're a small business owner, you would not invest in this business if you knew that your competitor could beat you every time, based on the rules. Why are you going to put the money in? Is it in the hope that the consumer is an idiot and he's going to move?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Why are you saying that you can't compete? And I'm not asking--
4:25 p.m.
Persona Cable
We have a set of rules in place now. I just gave you a great example from Sudbury. We just invested $8 million into a system. The customer phones the telephone company and says, I'm going to move to Persona. The telephone company says, no, don't bother. I'm going to give you 45 bucks up front. I'm going to drop your Internet service by 10 bucks. I'm going to drop your phone service by 30 bucks, and I'm going to drop your TV service by 13 bucks.
So unless you think the consumer.... As David Ogilvy, the great ad man, once said, the consumer's not an idiot, she's your wife. Consumers are smart. They say, you know, I don't think I'll go through the hassle of change; I'm going to save a whole bunch of money and I don't have to do anything other than make one phone call.