Industry Committee on Sept. 28th, 2011

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Yes, the budget overview.

[Kelly Gillis]

The statutory vote of $0.2 billion would be for the employee benefits plan, equivalent to 18% of salaries, but it also includes a few other votes that are included in our main estimates. The small-business financing program the deputy mentioned previously is considered a statutory program, meaning that we get our authority through legislation to make those payments versus it being voted annually as an appropriation.

If you go into the main estimates, they're all listed one by one, line by line, on page 204.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Going back to the pie chart again and looking at the National Research Council of Canada, could you tell me if its labs are spread out across the country?

[Richard Dicerni]

Yes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Do the estimates break down the allocation assigned to each laboratory?

[Richard Dicerni]

I could check, or you could ask the NRC or we could send it to you. They have about 15 or 16 institutes. Some are based in Ottawa. For instance, its astronomy institute is here and so is its institute dealing with metrology. They have an aerospace institute based in Montreal. They have one dealing with grains based in Saskatoon.

So these are spread across the country. They are somewhat tied; there is one cluster associated with aluminum in the Saguenay region.

So yes, they do have institutes across the country.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How does the NRC administer these? Is there a person assigned or seconded from the NRC to each of these institutions?

[Richard Dicerni]

That is basically the bulk of what the NRC does. It is the major raison d'être over and above the IRAP program. The NRC fundamentally does two things: it runs these institutes seeking to enhance the connection between the private sector and themselves, and runs the IRAP program. That is the National Research Council's remit.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Do these institutes take in revenue from business in order to function?

[Richard Dicerni]

It varies. The aerospace one, for example, gets a lot of contracts from a variety of aerospace companies that want to test things out using its laboratories.

With other institutes, such as the one dealing with metrology—which is how to count—there's not a lot of private sector interest in that. So it's mostly funded through tax dollars.

So it depends on how close they are to the marketplace with regard to the nature of these institutes.

There's a new president at the National Research Council, John McDougall, who took over about 18 months ago. He is taking another look at how these institutes actually work and how they interface with the private sector, and how much money they are indeed able to get for their activities from clients in the private sector.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

If a minister, or the Prime Minister for that matter, had a question on a specific area of science, how would you go about finding the person who could answer his very technical and specific question?

[Richard Dicerni]

I would ask what the nature of the specific technical question was. The NRC does have a wealth of knowledge in 17 specific areas, but it doesn't cover everything.

The Government of Canada's granting councils fund 2,000 Canada research chairs in a wide area. Perhaps in response to the specific question in mind, we could say there's a researcher at the University of Alberta who is researching something pertaining to oil sands.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Dicerni, I'm sorry, but time has run out again. It's always our enemy here at the committee, as it is with every committee.

Now on to Mr. Brahmi for five minutes.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to turn to the deputy minister and go back to the questions raised by my colleague Mr. Thibeault.

My understanding is that there is currently no specific consumer protection structure at Industry Canada. Neither does it seem that there is a plan to develop such a structure in the future.

Could you tell me if there has ever been a structure like that in the past? During previous governments, is it possible that there was a structure that disappeared with the restructuring? Has there ever been a framework?

[Richard Dicerni]

There is actually a person in charge. It is the director general of the Office of Consumer Affairs. He has been in that position for at least five and a half years. I have been a deputy minister for five years and a half and he has since been in the same position.

In the 60s and the 70s, there was a Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs. The department was reworked in 1993 during the government reorganization, I believe. It was merged with three or four departments to create the Department of Industry as we know it today.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

In your view, have services been lost? Have consumer protection services been lost?

[Richard Dicerni]

As I have already told you, there have been no changes in the past five and a half years. So there have been no losses and no gains. We still have what we used to have.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay.

I would also like to talk about cell phone towers. We know that the role of the Government of Canada is to protect the health of Canadians. I understand that Industry Canada has invalidated some of the decisions made by municipal councils in the past. I have the Charlottetown example before me from Health Canada.

Does Industry Canada have a permanent structure that works closely with Health Canada? For example, is there a joint working group that looks at health issues as part of Industry Canada's actions.

[Richard Dicerni]

Yes, the group in charge of the spectrum and Health Canada consult each other rather frequently about the towers. The responsibility falls on Health Canada first. The department has to define the standards and Industry Canada makes sure those standards are implemented.

So yes, communication does take place. I am not sure if there is a permanent group of officials who get together every week, but I know that they communicate quite frequently. The question has been raised on a number of occasions previously. Over the past few years, Health Canada has reviewed its standards and Industry Canada has made adjustments accordingly. Fundamentally, Health Canada has the responsibility first.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Does the Minister of Industry have other sources of information? He could maybe see if other industrialized countries faced with the same problem have specific norms for their industry departments.

[Richard Dicerni]

In terms of setting standards for the antenna towers, we leave that up to the Department of Health, since it has an expertise that we don't have.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brahmi.

It's 4:48 right now and we're ending the second round with Mr. Lake. The third round will begin with another Conservative question.

Our guests need to leave at five o'clock, so I'm just wondering, Mr. Lake, if we could go to the witnesses' concluding remarks once you finish your round—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Yes, I could do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

—because it would be the government members who would have to suspend their questioning.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Yes, that's fair.