Evidence of meeting #38 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was children.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]
I think maybe yes, at some point that's probably the best choice the parents can make, but I was not provided a choice. I was torn away from my children, and while I was in jail, I nearly went crazy thinking about where my children were and what happened to them. I couldn't stop thinking about that. I knew nothing about my children and my only thought was, “How do I get my children back?”
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you, Madame Bérubé.
I believe Madam Rashevska would like to add something in answering your question, Madame Bérubé.
Go ahead.
12:10 p.m.
Legal Expert, Regional Center for Human Rights, Save Ukraine
Thank you so much for this opportunity.
I would like to add some details to the case of Mr. Mezhevoj. He has three children who were unlawfully deported together with other children from Mariupol, first to occupied Donetsk and then to the Polyany sanatorium in the Moscow region. Then some of these children, the so-called group of 31, were directly transferred—
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Excuse me; there is no translation. I would like to ask you to repeat your words when the translation is on, please.
12:10 p.m.
Legal Expert, Regional Center for Human Rights, Save Ukraine
The three children of Mr. Mezhevoj were not the only ones who were accompanied in the—
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Can you lift your microphone a little bit, please?
It's better. Keep going, please.
12:10 p.m.
Legal Expert, Regional Center for Human Rights, Save Ukraine
The three children of Mr. Mezhevoj were unlawfully deported from Donetsk to the Polyany sanatorium in the Moscow region, together with other children from Mariupol. Some of these children were transferred to Russian foster families for foster care. Some of them were transferred to—
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Just a moment, please. We are having trouble with the translation.
They are asking you to lift the microphone again, please. It has to go a little bit up.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Mr. Chair, they're saying it's the quality of the signal.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Unfortunately, our interpreters cannot do the translation for you.
I'm sorry. I'll ask you not to continue. We have no interpretation—
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Chair, on a point of order, it's very unfortunate that this happened, but maybe we can advise the witnesses that they can send written responses to questions. We will very much read and reflect on written follow-ups sent by all of the witnesses.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
It's a great idea.
I believe you can send a written response to the committee. We would welcome that.
12:15 p.m.
Legal Expert, Regional Center for Human Rights, Save Ukraine
Mr. Chair, can I answer in French?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Unfortunately, no. Most of the members speak English. Please send it in writing, if you don't mind.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
I have a suggestion.
If she speaks Ukrainian, the Ukrainian interpreters' audio seems to be acceptable. Perhaps she could speak in Ukrainian and let the interpreter....
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Can you please speak in Ukrainian? We would like to see how it goes.
12:15 p.m.
Legal Expert, Regional Center for Human Rights, Save Ukraine
[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]
Can you hear me now?
12:15 p.m.
Legal Expert, Regional Center for Human Rights, Save Ukraine
[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]
Here's what I wanted to say. Mr. Mezhevoj's three children were deported to the Polyany sanatorium, in the Moscow region, together with other children. We called them “the group of 31”. Among those children, there were some who were first fostered in Russian families. Others were fostered in Russian orphanages.
Filipp Golovnya was there in the care of Maria Lvova-Belova, as well as Bohdan Yermokhin, a boy who recently received a draft notice to join the Russian army. Once he is 18, on November 19 of this year, he will have to go to the Russian military office, and it's very likely that he'll be sent to the battlefield in Ukraine.
Bohdan has a sister in Ukraine who has all of the documents to get him back home, but at the same time, Bohdan tried to cross the Russian border, where he was detained at the personal order of Maria Lvova-Belova by the Russian FSB, so we are fighting for these two weeks before Bohdan turns 18 in order to prevent them from drafting him into the army, violating all the rules of international law.
We are working on getting other children back who are also about to turn 18.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you.
Now I would like to invite Madam McPherson to take the floor for seven minutes, please.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I also would like to express my gratitude to all of the witnesses, particularly the children who shared their stories.
This is harrowing testimony for us to hear. Like many in this room, I am also a mother. I listened to the testimony of Ms. Bodak and thought that my son is 16. I can't even imagine the horror that you've had to endure, to hear that they put a hood over your head and....
I'm also so impressed with how strong your testimony is and that you're able to come here and share your thoughts and your stories with us.
I am also trying to understand how it is that the children on this call were able to get back to Ukraine and that so many of the Ukrainian children who were taken have not been able to return.
I would start with the parents.
If I could ask Ms. Bodak to begin, I know how hard you fought to have Vladyslav returned to you. From your perspective, what are those things that we can assist with? How did that happen? Was it luck? Was it hard work? Was it a combination of all the things being aligned? I would like to hear your perspective on that.
12:15 p.m.
As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]
I had no idea how to get him home until I received information that there is an organization, Save Ukraine, and that this organization helps to bring back Ukrainian children. I contacted them and I worked with them. When I was on my way, I was working with Save Ukraine, and they were with me from the beginning to the end. Prior to that, I had no idea how I was going to be able to bring my son back.
Basically, my son, who had already worked with them before, recommended to me to talk to them and to work with them. Now when I know about similar situations, I always provide the name and number of this organization, Save Ukraine, and I recommend getting in touch with them and working with them.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Mr. Mezhevoj, could you give us your perspective on that?
12:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Save Ukraine
[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you for your question. We cannot let you know how we are doing this in Belarus or Russia. It's confidential information that has a high degree of risk for those people who help us rescue these children.
Please know one thing: Russians are doing everything in their power to prevent these children from returning to Ukraine. Parents or people who have parental rights have to go through interrogations and lie detectors and have to provide DNA samples.
The oldest of such cases are controlled personally by Madam Lvova-Belova. Madam Lvova-Belova was talking about a group of 31, and how Filipp tried to escape. Russians understand very clearly that all these children are witnesses of war crimes, so it's easier for them to send these children to the Russian army to be killed on the battlefield, or they prevent them from leaving in other ways, because they know these children have a lot of information and stories they can share. They have stories of war crimes, so all Ukrainian children who are there are being threatened and frightened. They are given all kinds of motivations to stay in Russia and are provided with untrue information that it's dangerous to go back to Ukraine.
There is one boy who is 14 years old now. He was 13 when he ended up in occupied territory in Russia. He was given a Russian birth certificate, but he didn't want to take it, so he returned it. For that action, he was persecuted. He was issued a new Russian birth certificate, but it was not given to him; it was in his file. When he was 14 years old, he was forced to receive a Russian passport. He didn't want to receive a Russian passport, but when legal representatives came to pick him up, they were not allowed to take him to bring him back to Ukraine.
I cannot tell you specifically what steps we took to bring him back to Ukraine, but it's a very complicated and difficult enterprise, and a very risky one.
