Justice Committee on March 29th, 2007
Evidence of meeting #59 for Justice and Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sexual.
A recording is available from Parliament.
On the agenda
MPs speaking
Also speaking
- Paul Gillespie Consultant, As an Individual
- Lynn Barr-Telford Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
- Tamra Thomson Director, Legislation and Law Reform, Canadian Bar Association
- Margaret Gallagher Treasurer, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
- Kevin Kindred Branch Section Chair, Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Conference, Canadian Bar Association
- Judy Nuttall Coordinator, Affiliated with Citizens Addressing Sexual Exploitation, White Ribbon Against Pornography
- Steve Sullivan President, Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime
- Martha Mackinnon Executive Director, Justice for Children and Youth
- Karen Mihorean Assistant Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
- William Trudell Chair, Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers
- Jason Gratl President, B.C. Civil Liberties Association
- Kim Pate Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
- Andrew Brett Member, Age of Consent Committee
- Nicholas Dodds Member, Age of Consent Committee
- Dave Quist Executive Director, Institute of Marriage and Family Canada
- Daphne Gilbert Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
- Christina Godlewska Articled Student, B.C. Civil Liberties Association
10 a.m.
Conservative
10 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for being here.
I'd like to follow up, Mr. Gillespie, with you, and with Ms. Barr-Telford.
I understand and I agree with you that it's just about impossible at this point. But Ms. Barr-Telford, do we have any numbers at all? You gave us the percentage, that about 90% of the sexual assaults and exploitation of youth and children are by family members or close associates of family members, leaving 10% that are basically by strangers. Of that 10%, do we have even a rough idea of how much would be as a result of luring over the Internet?
Mr. Gillespie, as well, have you seen any statistics or any sense of that?
10 a.m.
Consultant, As an Individual
No is the short answer. Again, it's so new that the numbers would probably be less than, or just around, 100 cases in Canada that officers might have been involved in, cases of active Internet luring. Typically they're the ones we read about, or they're in the media. Again, it has just been a very much under-reported offence.
March 29th, 2007 / 10 a.m.
Karen Mihorean Assistant Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
All we have on luring are the actual numbers that Lynn gave you of charges from our police statistics. We don't have it broken down by relationship.
10 a.m.
President, Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime
Could I just quickly add a point there? I think when you look at how young people define their use of the Internet, if they've been chatting with someone for six months, he's not a stranger. He is a friend; he is someone they know. So how we might define “strangers” and how young people define “friends” and “colleagues” is quite different.
10 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Within the luring charges—and again, Mr. Gillespie, if you have any comments on it—is there any sense of how many of them, if you take the 100 cases, are domestic and how many are international?
10 a.m.
Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
No, we are not able to provide that information. The only information, as Karen mentioned, that we have at the moment is the number of offences of luring that we're able to present.
10 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Mr. Gillespie, have you any sense of, of those 100 cases, how many would be domestic and how many would be international?
10 a.m.
Consultant, As an Individual
I know there have been some international ones, which are, again, well publicized. The majority would be domestic. Certainly in the United States, where these types of cases have been investigated more thoroughly and with more experience than us for the last several years, they're typically out of state but simply within their borders. They're not very often international.
10 a.m.
Assistant Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
What we could do is look at the 116 cases of luring that we have, and if there has been a charge, we could look at the relationship through our police-reported data. We'd be happy to provide that to the committee if there is some information there. It's only 116 cases, though, that we do have since 2003.
10 a.m.
NDP
10 a.m.
Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
That would be information on relationship, not information on whether it was international.
10 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I understand.
Ms. Barr-Telford, with regard to section 159, on anal intercourse, I have statistics up to 2003-04, showing that in 2003-04 there were 78 not convicted and two convicted, so there were 80 cases in that year. Do you have statistics for 2005 and 2006?
10 a.m.
Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
No; 2003-04 is our most recent year of available data.
10 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Mr. Kindred, with regard to that charge, do I understand that the Bar Association's position is that it should be completely taken off the books, not just the age reduced to 16, if we go with age 16 on this bill?