Evidence of meeting #59 for Justice and Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

  • Paul Gillespie  Consultant, As an Individual
  • Lynn Barr-Telford  Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
  • Tamra Thomson  Director, Legislation and Law Reform, Canadian Bar Association
  • Margaret Gallagher  Treasurer, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
  • Kevin Kindred  Branch Section Chair, Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Conference, Canadian Bar Association
  • Judy Nuttall  Coordinator, Affiliated with Citizens Addressing Sexual Exploitation, White Ribbon Against Pornography
  • Steve Sullivan  President, Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime
  • Martha Mackinnon  Executive Director, Justice for Children and Youth
  • Karen Mihorean  Assistant Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
  • William Trudell  Chair, Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers
  • Jason Gratl  President, B.C. Civil Liberties Association
  • Kim Pate  Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
  • Andrew Brett  Member, Age of Consent Committee
  • Nicholas Dodds  Member, Age of Consent Committee
  • Dave Quist  Executive Director, Institute of Marriage and Family Canada
  • Daphne Gilbert  Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
  • Christina Godlewska  Articled Student, B.C. Civil Liberties Association

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Art Hanger

Thank you, Ms. Freeman.

Mr. Comartin.

10 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here.

I'd like to follow up, Mr. Gillespie, with you, and with Ms. Barr-Telford.

I understand and I agree with you that it's just about impossible at this point. But Ms. Barr-Telford, do we have any numbers at all? You gave us the percentage, that about 90% of the sexual assaults and exploitation of youth and children are by family members or close associates of family members, leaving 10% that are basically by strangers. Of that 10%, do we have even a rough idea of how much would be as a result of luring over the Internet?

Mr. Gillespie, as well, have you seen any statistics or any sense of that?

10 a.m.

Consultant, As an Individual

Paul Gillespie

No is the short answer. Again, it's so new that the numbers would probably be less than, or just around, 100 cases in Canada that officers might have been involved in, cases of active Internet luring. Typically they're the ones we read about, or they're in the media. Again, it has just been a very much under-reported offence.

March 29th, 2007 / 10 a.m.

Karen Mihorean Assistant Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

All we have on luring are the actual numbers that Lynn gave you of charges from our police statistics. We don't have it broken down by relationship.

10 a.m.

President, Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime

Steve Sullivan

Could I just quickly add a point there? I think when you look at how young people define their use of the Internet, if they've been chatting with someone for six months, he's not a stranger. He is a friend; he is someone they know. So how we might define “strangers” and how young people define “friends” and “colleagues” is quite different.

10 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Within the luring charges—and again, Mr. Gillespie, if you have any comments on it—is there any sense of how many of them, if you take the 100 cases, are domestic and how many are international?

10 a.m.

Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Lynn Barr-Telford

No, we are not able to provide that information. The only information, as Karen mentioned, that we have at the moment is the number of offences of luring that we're able to present.

10 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Mr. Gillespie, have you any sense of, of those 100 cases, how many would be domestic and how many would be international?

10 a.m.

Consultant, As an Individual

Paul Gillespie

I know there have been some international ones, which are, again, well publicized. The majority would be domestic. Certainly in the United States, where these types of cases have been investigated more thoroughly and with more experience than us for the last several years, they're typically out of state but simply within their borders. They're not very often international.

10 a.m.

Assistant Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Karen Mihorean

What we could do is look at the 116 cases of luring that we have, and if there has been a charge, we could look at the relationship through our police-reported data. We'd be happy to provide that to the committee if there is some information there. It's only 116 cases, though, that we do have since 2003.

10 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Thank you.

10 a.m.

Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Lynn Barr-Telford

That would be information on relationship, not information on whether it was international.

10 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

I understand.

Ms. Barr-Telford, with regard to section 159, on anal intercourse, I have statistics up to 2003-04, showing that in 2003-04 there were 78 not convicted and two convicted, so there were 80 cases in that year. Do you have statistics for 2005 and 2006?

10 a.m.

Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Lynn Barr-Telford

No; 2003-04 is our most recent year of available data.

10 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Mr. Kindred, with regard to that charge, do I understand that the Bar Association's position is that it should be completely taken off the books, not just the age reduced to 16, if we go with age 16 on this bill?