Evidence of meeting #3 for Justice and Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Sims  Deputy Minister and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Donald Rennie  Barrister and Soliciter, Senior General Counsel, Civil Litigation Section, Department of Justice

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Art Hanger

I'd like to call the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to order. I believe everyone has a copy of the agenda before them.

I would like to welcome the Minister of Justice, Mr. Rob Nicholson, and the Deputy Minister, Mr. John Sims, to our committee today.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the supplementary estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2008, will be under review. The minister and the deputy minister--and I know some of his officials are here--will be making a presentation. From there, there will be some questions.

I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Rob Nicholson.

I might point out that the minister has agreed to stay until our committee business is being attended to. That will be at 15 minutes before one o'clock. I'd just note, the agenda has him here from 11 a.m. to 12 p.m.

Thank you for extending your time, Minister. The floor is yours.

11 a.m.

Niagara Falls Ontario

Conservative

Rob Nicholson ConservativeMinister of Justice

It is my pleasure. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Once again I am pleased to appear before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to answer questions with respect to the supplementary estimates.

I am pleased as well, of course, to have the Deputy Minister of Justice, Mr. John Sims, with me.

Mr. Chairman, as you know, as Minister of Justice and Attorney General, I have made it a priority for the Department of Justice to develop legislation and policy that addresses crime more effectively and increases the confidence of Canadians in the justice system. This work fits squarely within the context of ensuring the accessibility, efficiency, and fairness in our system of justice; promoting respect for the rule of law; and providing legal counsel to the government.

In a broader sense, as minister of this government, I am also committed to the priorities of Canadians. This involves being accountable and spending taxpayers' money wisely, delivering real benefits to ordinary working people and their families, defending and advancing Canada's interests and values in the world, tackling crime, and making our neighbourhoods safer.

This last priority has been the focus of much of my work, in conjunction with my colleague, the Honourable Stockwell Day, Minister of Public Safety, and I'm pleased with some of the progress we've made. In the past 21 months we've passed legislation to impose serious penalties on street racing; we have passed legislation to end conditional sentences for serious personal injuries, and I wish that bill had gone farther, but nonetheless, Mr. Chairman, it is now the law of this country; we have invested in crime prevention community projects that target youth; and we've introduced a national anti-drug strategy with an investment of new resources in the amount of $64 million over the next two budget years.

We have remained committed to our goal of tackling crime, and we have continued to pursue this goal vigorously since Parliament resumed, because crime affects everyone, from families to businesses to entire communities. Time and time again, Canadians have said they want a strong criminal justice system, and in aid of that, we introduced the Tackling Violent Crime Act as one of our first orders of business in this new session. It reintroduces the significant crime bills that were extensively debated during the last session but never became law. These include providing mandatory jail sentences and creating tougher bail provisions for those who commit serious gun crimes; increasing the age of protection for sexual activity from 14 to 16; cracking down on drug and alcohol-impaired driving; and ensuring that high-risk and dangerous offenders face tougher consequences when they are sentenced and better monitoring of post-release to prevent them from re-offending again and again.

As you know, all of these measures were introduced in the last Parliament, and last night I was pleased to see that bill pass the House of Commons at the report stage with considerable support.

In addition, Mr. Chairman, as you would know, we tabled three new bills in the last week that seek to protect our communities on a number of different fronts. First of all, we introduced amendments to the Youth Criminal Justice Act that would include deterrence and denunciation sentencing principles and that would change the current pre-trial detention provision in the act, making it easier to detain youth in custody prior to their trials if the youth are a danger to society. These changes reflect the expectations of Canadians. They want to be assured that young offenders, just like adult offenders, will face meaningful consequences for serious crime.

Second, we tabled legislation that proposes mandatory jail time for people involved in serious drug crimes. We know that illicit drugs are dangerous and destructive. They are infiltrating our neighbourhoods, turning suburban homes into grow ops and crystal meth labs, and we know they are directly implicated in the deaths of many Canadians every year, many of whom are young people.

Drug producers and dealers threaten the safety of our communities. They must face tougher penalties, so we're proposing a one-year sentence if offenders are dealing drugs such as marijuana for organized crime purposes or if a weapon or violence is involved. There would be a minimum two-year sentence if they're selling drugs like cocaine, heroin, or methamphetamines to young people, or dealing drugs where youth congregate, or running a large marijuana grow op of at least 500 plants.

Getting tough on drug producers and dealers is part of our national anti-drug strategy that was announced in October. But we also want to prevent people from becoming enslaved by drugs and to free people from drugs when they get hooked. So this bill contains an exception that allows a drug treatment court to impose a lesser penalty than a mandatory minimum sentence if the offender successfully completes an approved drug treatment program and if the offence does not involve any of the aggravating factors such as violence.

In addition, Mr. Chairman, you would know that we introduced an amendment to the Criminal Code to address the growing problem of identity theft. This is a growing problem. It's estimated that Canadians lose $2 billion every year as a direct result of identify theft, so we are making it an offence to obtain, possess, or traffic other people's identity information if there is an intention to use that information to commit a crime. In my opinion, this is a very reasonable and important step forward. It closes a gap that exists within the Criminal Code. I've had law enforcement agencies across this country point out to me that yes, of course, for the person who is using a forged credit card, that is committing an offence in Canada, and it always has been. But those individuals who assemble that information, distribute it, or sell it to facilitate the commission of a crime have not been caught up to this point, and we have to get them as well.

Mr. Chairman, we're committed to protecting Canada's citizens, but we also are obligated to do our part in preventing crime. By giving options to young people at risk, we can help ensure that they are not drawn into a life of drugs and violence. So we've committed $20 million over two years to support community-based prevention and intervention projects that prevent youth from entering gangs and assist them in leaving gangs.

I'll give you an example. In my area of Niagara, in St. Catharines, I announced with my colleague, Stockwell Day, a $1.7 million project that will work with at-risk youth who are in conflict with the law or involved with gangs in an effort to reduce gang-related activity.

Crime issues vary from province to province and from region to region. This is why I believe community-based programs work best. To further their success, my department seeks additional funding of $53 million so that our government can continue to provide support to the provinces and territories, which form an integral part of our country's justice system.

The next steps I would like to indicate to you are with respect to the Youth Criminal Justice Act. This is the 100th anniversary of the first youth criminal justice system in Canada. It's the fifth anniversary of the Youth Criminal Justice Act. I think this is an appropriate time to commence a review of how this country deals with young people. So in addition to the amendments we introduced in the House of Commons to the Youth Criminal Justice Act, we will be launching a broader review of the youth justice system, and we will provide the details of that review, including its scope, in the near future.

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to point out that there is another anniversary coming up. Next month will be the first anniversary of the creation of the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions as a separate entity from the Department of Justice. We've taken this step in the interests of accountability and to make absolutely clear that criminal prosecutions are independent from political influence. We continue the process of selecting a permanent director for this office and hope to make an announcement very soon in this regard. As Attorney General, I will be appointing that individual, and that choice will be referred for approval to a committee of Parliament.

As we move forward, I will continue to work hard in my role as Minister of Justice to ensure that the government's tackling crime agenda progresses through Parliament so that we can all enjoy safer streets and more secure communities.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to thank you and your committee members for the important work you do.

The Department of Justice is instrumental in the government's work in responding to the needs of Canadians. Our many programs and initiatives require collaboration, of course, with our provincial and territorial partners as well as with municipalities and other government departments. For it to continue its work in making Canada's streets safer and communities safer, and to improve our justice system, the department will need to continue to receive funding.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for affording me the opportunity to make some opening comments. If the committee has any questions, I would be glad to take them.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Art Hanger

Thank you, Minister.

I know the committee does have some questions.

Mr. Savage, with the Liberal Party, you have seven minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll probably split my time with Ms. Barnes.

Minister, it's nice to see you.

I went through the estimates, and I have a question. I recall hearing that there was a poll done in the last year on whether or not Canadians support capital punishment. Is that here in the estimates?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

No.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Wasn't the poll done?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

You asked if it's in the estimates and the answer is no.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Was there a poll done?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

We'll check and we'll get back to you on that.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

It seems to me that the poll was done and it got some attention. I wonder why a poll would be done on whether or not Canadians prefer capital punishment.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

The deputy is not sure whether a poll was done, but if it was, we'll get that information.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

I'd be interested in that. In light of what's happened recently in terms of our change of policy in terms of advocating for those on death row around the world, it concerns me that a poll would be done on Canadians' preference for capital punishment. It should be in here somewhere, and if it isn't, I wonder if you actually got the results you wanted. So I would like to get some more information on that poll.

You mentioned youth criminal justice, which is a big issue in my riding, as it is for Canadians across the country.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

And it is in your province.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

It is an issue in my province and in my riding. You have been down on a number of occasions, and you've referenced Justice Merlin Nunn's report--

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Yes.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

--a number of times in bringing forward recent legislation, legislation that I, in general, support and want to see come to this committee.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

This is good.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Justice Nunn specifically said in his report that the Youth Criminal Justice Act is basically a very sound piece of legislation, to quote him directly. Do you agree with that?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I believe that a separate youth criminal justice system is a good idea, and it's one that I support. I support the principles contained in the Youth Criminal Justice Act. You're quite correct that we have made some changes to them, and one of them is in direct response to the Nunn report that was tabled in Nova Scotia.

Again, I indicated to you that I believe it is an appropriate time--on the fifth anniversary of this bill--to have a comprehensive review. I can tell you as well that one of the number one issues raised with me as justice minister when I've gone across this country is the whole question of the Youth Criminal Justice Act. I support the concept of a separate youth criminal justice system, and I always have, for that matter.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

You would agree with Justice Nunn, and with me, that the Youth Criminal Justice Act is a sound piece of legislation.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I think it's a sound piece of legislation that needs improvement.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Okay.

Thank you.

I'll pass my time to Ms. Barnes.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Sue Barnes Liberal London West, ON

Following up on that, Justice Nunn had more than one area that he considered important for implementation and correction inside that Youth Criminal Justice Act. I wonder, Minister, if you could explain why you chose only one out of a number of recommendations to follow up on.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I get all kinds of suggestions, as you might guess, with respect to the Youth Criminal Justice Act.

I wanted to address one of the specific concerns that Mr. Justice Nunn was asked to look into, and that was the whole question of pre-trial detention. This was as a result of a very tragic incident that took place in Nova Scotia that resulted in the death of a woman by an individual who had been picked up and released and picked up and released. Quite apart from my belief that a complete review of the law is necessary, I felt that it was important to make sure that this was in there. So we introduced that particular amendment, as you know, in Parliament.

I was quite pleased that the new Attorney General of Nova Scotia, as well as the previous Attorney General, both publicly indicated their support for our actions on that. While some of these things are controversial, it's my hope that this particular piece of legislation, as we've introduced it, can move expeditiously through the parliamentary process. I'm pleased that at least your colleague, Mr. Savage, indicated that he generally supports what we're doing. Again, I hope that translates into moving this as quickly and as expeditiously as possible though the parliamentary process.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Sue Barnes Liberal London West, ON

Yes, and I wouldn't want to misquote Mr. Savage. He was showing concern and support for those recommendations of the Nunn commission, and also showing concern, at the same time, that Justice Nunn had said that it--