Justice Committee on Feb. 9th, 2009

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

So we do have a plan to move forward.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Yes, it's to move forward on it.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Excellent.

The second question I had was on the $85 million over five years for an aboriginal justice strategy, which we have moving forward. I'm assuming that education is a key component of this strategy.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

There's no question about that. Of course we have a constitutional responsibility with respect to aboriginal Canadians. Therefore, as part of our ongoing efforts to work with them and assist those individuals who come into conflict with the law, we have the aboriginal justice strategy.

I can tell you that when I became justice minister a couple of years ago and was looking very carefully at all the different programs and where the money from the Department of Justice was spent, this actually caught my attention from the positive feedback I received on it. It was a hands-on attempt to break the cycle of an individual who finds himself or herself caught up in the criminal justice system. This is exactly what we want. I indicated to you that we're working with over 400 aboriginal communities across Canada. Again, I get good feedback on it.

I think most Canadians who would have a look at that and take a fair-minded approach to it would agree that this is exactly what we should be doing. Again, it was one of those programs--one of many, quite frankly, we're involved with--that caught my attention at a very early stage in my role as justice minister and one with which I've been very, very pleased.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

On the link to the program and the amount of money in the program, I have several first nations communities in my riding. As well, I served on the aboriginal affairs committee in the last Parliament. This was a big issue. It does seem as though there's been an increase in funding for this program over the last several years. That's something that's very much appreciated by first nations.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

There has been, Mr. Storseth, and why not? Again, I think this is money well spent. I think it touches so many different aspects of an individual who gets caught up in the criminal justice system. This is money well spent. This is exactly what we should be doing.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

My last question would be in regard to your consultations you've had on the Youth Criminal Justice Act. I believe you were in Edmonton. In our area we had some very positive feedback. It's certainly a little different from what I heard from Mr. Murphy.

One of the things I heard brought up a few times was concern about bullying and how it could be looked at within the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Have you had a lot of feedback on that in your consultations, not just in the Edmonton area but across the country?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I can't say that I've heard quite a bit about that. I've heard about many of the causes of youth criminal justice offences, going back to problems with fetal alcohol syndrome and what a terrible role that plays in the lives of some individuals. I've heard a wide range of opinions on that, but the accountability and seriousness with which groups take the whole issue of the youth criminal justice system came through loud and clear.

I've heard from many groups that for non-violent, particularly first-time offenders, the system works well, but there is concern. In the Nunn report the concern, among other things, is about individuals continuously being released, and not enough being done to intervene with individuals who, for whatever reason, are out of control. For their protection and the protection of society, intervention needs to take place.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

We have one more question on the government side for five minutes. Who will take that?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

I have one more question to the minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Mr. Moore.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Minister, thank you for being here today and for your time.

You mentioned, in your opening remarks on legal aid, the permanence and stability of the funding going forward. I'm wondering what the feedback has been that brought us to that point. I know in the past there were issues with the provinces, where they were unable to count on their federal counterparts in that way and for stable, long-term funding. I'm wondering about this change in focus in this method of funding.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you very much for the question.

As I indicated to you in my opening remarks, legal aid is a vital component of the criminal justice system. While I appreciate that it's administered and for the most part funded by the provincial governments, it is a vital component of what we are doing in making sure that an individual gets the kind of representation they have to have when they're tied up with this. Sometimes, and not necessarily for bad reasons, temporary funding is put out just to see how a program is going to work, whether it's valuable. That's legitimate.

I think it's important, to the extent that we can, to provide long-term, stable funding that can be counted upon by, in this case, the provinces, rather than have the door open on a regular basis to see whether in fact that level of federal government support is going to be there. The provinces have to be in a position to be able to plan their financial future, their budgetary measures, and they have priorities. Of course one of them is legal aid.

So I think this is a better way to do it, to establish that this is permanent funding and something that can be counted upon, because again, having access to legal counsel is an essential component of fairness within our system. We are pleased to work with our provincial and territorial counterparts on that and we'll continue to do so.

The Constitution of this country provides that the administration of justice is given to the provinces, but the actual passing of Criminal Code changes is to the federal government. While there is that split, it's still a partnership. We all have a stake in seeing that the system works.

As I said, I think we can take a great deal of pride in this country in our criminal justice system. That's not to say we don't have changes or we shouldn't have changes. We are absolutely committed, as we were in the last Parliament, to make sure there are those changes to the criminal justice system. As I indicated to you, we will be coming forward with more changes. It's my hope that this committee doesn't get bogged down in political gamesmanship. I certainly hope we wouldn't get into that. I hope the committee can work constructively to move forward with a number of these initiatives that Canadians are asking us for.

We can take a great deal of pride in some of the things we have done. Raising the age of protection from 14 to 16 is very, very important. I think it sends out the correct message to those individuals, for example, who are in the business of molesting and taking advantage of young people. I think we can all take some satisfaction that we've helped to get that through.

But there are other things we have to move on. As I indicated to you, identity theft is one of them, and changes to the laws with respect to auto theft. There are gaps in the law right now. We have to plug up those cracks in the system and make sure that our laws are up to date.

On the one hand, the provinces administer these laws, but again, we're the ones who bring forward so much of what they have to deal with. This is one of the reasons I am in consultation on a regular basis with my provincial counterparts, because I know they're the ones who have to administer the laws that we pass. It's been a good relationship, and I look forward to continuing to work them, as I look forward to continuing to work with you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Minister, thank you for your appearance here, and Mr. Sims as well.

We'll let you get on your way. We will have you back again, as I'm sure you expect. We look forward to continuing dialogue with you.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you very much, and good luck on your deliberations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Before we deal with the motions, what is the will of the committee? Typically we would now approve the supplementary estimates. There are a number of motions I would typically call for. Is that the will of the committee?

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

All right.

You'll note that there are four motions before you. I will move to votes 1b, 5b, and 30b under Justice.

JUSTICE

Department

Vote 1b--Operating expenditures, and, pursuant to paragraph 29.1(2)(a) of the Financial Administration Act, authority to expend revenues received in a fiscal year, and to offset expenditures incurred in the fiscal year..........$9,262,349 Vote 5b--The grants listed in the Estimates and contributions..........$16,000,000

Courts Administration Service

Vote 30b--Program expenditures..........$1,349,175

(Votes 1b, 5b, and 30b agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Finally, shall I report the supplementary estimates (B) for 2008-09 to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

Unless you wish otherwise, what we'll do now is move on to the motions that we have before us. There are actually five motions that have been tabled with the committee. What I was hoping to do is deal with the motions where there appears to be immediate consensus; we can dispose of those right away and then move on to the more contentious ones.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I would suggest that there have been some discussions and that Mr. Moore's motion on impaired driving is probably one that would not require a lot of debate. That's just a guess, but perhaps that could be taken first.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Let's take that one first.

Mr. Moore, do you want to formally make that motion?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

I move the motion.

We've had some discussion in the past about impaired driving, and it continues to be a number one criminal cause of death in Canada, so I do wish that we would report some findings out of this committee. We did hear evidence on drug-impaired driving, but it would be good for us, as the motion says, to study impaired driving generally and to make some recommendations as a committee. I think it's an appropriate subject matter for us to be studying.