Justice Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2011

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I am very sorry, Ms. Morency, but I want to be sure that you understand my three questions, and so I will ask them one after the other. Perhaps you can respond in the time you will be given, and that way, it will not take away any of mine.

First, regarding the minimum sentences which were imposed in 2005, I would like to know whether the effect of these sentences on the crime rate has been evaluated. I understand that, of course, there was an effect on the number of cases which were prosecuted, but I would like to know whether there was a definite effect on the crime rate. If studies have been done on this issue, I would like you to provide them to us.

Second, you may have heard of the study carried out by Julian V. Roberts, which was undertaken by the Research and Statistics Division of the Department of Justice, and which was entitled “Mandatory Sentences of Imprisonment in Common Law Jurisdictions: Some Representative Models”. Could you please send enough copies so that each member of the committee has one?

Third, the study concluded that the majority of Commonwealth countries have a saving clause, which allows a judge, who feels that a minimum sentence would be completely unfair in a given case, who believes that the mandatory imposition of such a sentence would result in unfairness, to not do so and to provide the reasons for this, either in writing or verbally. Could you provide us with models of such clauses which exist in other Commonwealth countries?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Ms. Morency, you can direct that information to the clerk.

[Carole Morency]

If I might, I'll briefly respond on the first question. Did we undertake an assessment of any decrease in charging convictions of child sex offences since the 2005 amendments? We did look at the outcome, we did look at the number of cases. I don't have data or a study to provide to you. I think perhaps the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics may in their presentation be able to partially respond to that.

What I do have and can refer the committee to right now is the Juristat that the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics produced on child and youth victims of police-reported violent crime, 2008, and I'd certainly be happy to provide that to the clerk.

One thing I would note as a caution is it's often difficult to make a direct causal relationship between changes in the number of incidents reported and specific law reform measures, because we don't know if sometimes it's an increase in reporting or an increase in incidence or a decrease. But that's a caution that exists.

Secondly, as to the Julian Roberts study, we may not have original copies, but we may have the photocopies that we can provide to the committee.

On the exception clause, in terms of when courts in other countries may have an ability to not impose a mandatory minimum penalty in exceptional cases, we'll undertake to do our best to pull some of that together for the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

Mr. Comartin, until the bells ring you have the rest of the time.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I have just one question. It's an amplification of Mr. Menard's.

Did you do any analysis of the impact of mandatory minimums? I'm looking here at a comparative study in the jurisdictions in the United States where they have them--and they are as substantial as they are--versus England, Australia, and New Zealand, the countries that are closest to Canada. Was there any type of analysis done on that?

[Carole Morency]

No. There is a bit of work that this committee will know. Reference has been made to it on mandatory minimums generally. More specifically, it's under way in terms of firearms and the impacts they've had there. But I'm not in a position to be able to provide the committee with that information in the context of child sex offences, beyond our own looking at the numbers and the ones you will probably hear about on Monday.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

As a supplement to that, in advance of this legislation being drafted, are you aware of whether there has been any of that kind of comparative study done specifically on child sexual abuse?

[Carole Morency]

I have researched extensively in the area, and if it exists I'm not aware of it. It's possible.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

I want to thank all of our witnesses for appearing.

The meeting is adjourned.