National Defence Committee on Dec. 6th, 2012

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Do you mean for Petawawa specifically?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Yes.

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

I might have it in front of me.

In terms of the way our systems are set up for crises, we have the psychosocial services, which wouldn't involve a psychiatrist but another mental health professional. That would occur in the same day—to see a professional, not necessarily a psychiatrist.

Psychiatrist wait times in Petawawa for a routine case are now 16 days from referral.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

It's 16 days from—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Ms. Gallant—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Just one more.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Your time has expired. I am sorry.

Technically we're supposed to suspend at a quarter after. I know there are some burning questions here, so to be fair, I'm going to do two four-minute questions, one for the NDP and one for the government.

With that, Mr. Harris—Dan Harris—you have the floor. I am going to keep it tight to four minutes. If you want to pass it off, you can.

Then I'll come back to you, Mr. Alexander.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. There are too many Harrises.

Colonel, thank you for the testimony. I want to follow up on the other Mr. Harris' questions. You mentioned there have been significant improvements in Petawawa in the last six months, through hiring and changes to leadership.

Have there been any measurables put in place on the changes to ensure that what has been in place will lead to greater success?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

That's a great question.

The ultimate measure that we're working on right now is to put in place an outcome management system, to look in a systematic way at the actual clinical progress that people are making. We're working on that.

Today we were talking about the same thing—

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Great.

Is there anything—

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Wait times and things like that are the hard data we are using right now.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Is there anything written that you could perhaps provide to the committee?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Do you mean changes in—

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If there's a plan in place and you could provide it, that would be great.

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Sorry; do you mean for outcome measures or for the changes in Petawawa?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Both, if you have them.

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Sure.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

You mentioned that there are regular national meetings with medical officers. Mr. Harris was asking a question on whether problems have been identified at other bases. Have you put anything in place for those meetings to ensure problems that existed at Petawawa haven't happened elsewhere?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

There is a free discussion that occurs. All of our clinicians have different training, different experiences, and those kinds of things. We have uniformed clinicians and civilian clinicians. The way we work is that we bring people in to talk about the issues they have at hand. Sometimes it might be disciplinary issues with people who have mental health issues. In all of these areas we will discuss the clinical approach and how we, as medical folks, can best serve our patients.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I would hope that perhaps in that process there might be a bit more prompting. Folks generally won't mention when there are mistakes and things going wrong without some specific prompting.

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

You would be surprised. If you close the door—

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'm going to pass the rest of my time on to my colleagues to continue.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We can have Madame Moore or Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Can I clarify something, Colonel?

I know Mr. Norlock was suggesting that PTSD was new, and I suppose in the grand scheme of things and in the course of medical history, it's new. As you mentioned, in your generation of medical professionals PTSD has been recognized since the 1980s as part of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders—III, IV, and 5 anyway.

This is something that has been available throughout the last 10 or 15 years in military practices. Am I correct with that?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Yes.