National Defence Committee on Dec. 6th, 2012

[MCpl Bill Nachuk]

I couldn't speculate on that. All I know is that I felt like I was targeted because I was having mental health issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. McKay, your time has expired.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

That's fine. Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

To be fair to the rest of the members, we have to keep moving along, especially since we only have another 15 minutes with these witnesses before we move to the next section of the agenda.

With that, Mr. Chisu, you have five minutes.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for coming before the committee. Thank you for your service.

From us to you, Bombardier, happy Saint Barbara Day; probably I will be able to tell you “more years to come” with these best wishes.

I would like to ask both of you this question. I was in Afghanistan in 2007. I understand that you were there in 2008. Can you describe your roles during the mission in Afghanistan and explain to the committee your respective experiences on deployment, if they are not too gruesome to tell?

[MCpl Bill Nachuk]

I'll start because I'm sure I haven't had as much as he has in this. It also relates to why I have what they call survivor's guilt.

Compared to my friends who I lost over there, I had it easy. I was in charge of the crypto. I was the one and only person involved with ensuring that all the crypto got out to all the FOBs and all the bases.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

So you were in Kandahar—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Could we ask for a translation?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Crypto is...? FOB is forward operating base; I understand that.

[MCpl Bill Nachuk]

Crypto? Sorry—

[A voice]

Signals—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I figured that, but I just wanted....

[MCpl Bill Nachuk]

Okay.

I was fortunate enough, whenever I had to go around, to be flying in a helicopter, but when we were engaged with ground air attacks, I felt helpless. I was basically at the mercy of the door gunners. It gives you a sense of no control. You're at their will. You can't do anything, right?

I feel bad; I have survivor's guilt because a lot of my friends died over there doing, I feel, a lot more important job and a harder job than I did, and I feel bad because here I am having problems.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I'm making a connection between your having a dog and also in Kandahar their having dogs and handlers to detect mines. The dogs were very much helpful for people. Actually, I remember that one dog was injured and was transported by helicopter, like a person.

[MCpl Bill Nachuk]

Their dogs are soldiers. Their dogs have ranks. They have service numbers. Their dogs usually have a rank higher than the owner, which protects the dog, because if the owner mistreats or abuses that animal, the animal has a higher rank than the soldier.

That's something that I think would benefit us: incorporating it into the dog program here and getting these dogs recognized as members of the Canadian Forces.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I'm making the connection between their dogs and these dogs that are helping you out in your recuperating from PTSD.

You mentioned the chain of command and so on. As an officer, my first role is to protect my soldiers, and even to take care of my soldiers. I would like to know what problems there are with the chain of command, because what you are reporting to me were disturbing events.

[MCpl Bill Nachuk]

Yes, sir, they were.

They even went as far as wanting me to cancel one of my regular appointments so that I would not miss our Christmas dinner. When I refused to do so, I was raked over the coals.

To me, my mental health and my regular appointments are more important than going to a Christmas dinner, which promotes, as we all know, drinking and everything else. I wanted to get away from that. I refused to go to Christmas parties—after hours, on our time—because alcohol was a big factor, and I was trying to get back on track.

Once again, because I did not want to take part in those functions while trying to get better, I was scrutinized and raked over the coals.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Has anything changed lately, or do you see a change?

[MCpl Bill Nachuk]

I've moved off of that base, thankfully. I go back there to visit. I see friends of mine.

If anything, sir, I can honestly say that I feel it's gotten worse in Shilo. Shilo is a very isolated base, for those who don't know. It's very isolated. There are a lot of problems down there because the troops are afraid to come forward.

That's why I feel, once again, this has to get pushed down from the highest levels in the CANFORGEN to say that this program is supported by the CF so that the soldiers are not afraid to come forward and ask for the help they deserve and need.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much.

[MCpl Bill Nachuk]

Thank you, sir.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Master Bombardier Logue, I'd like to ask you about your mission in Afghanistan. I understand you were in PRT, which is a much smaller base than Kandahar. How many people were there, around 300?

[Geoffry Logue]

Sir, I actually wasn't at PRT very much. I was a relief driver and gunner. I did a lot of dismounted operations. I was involved in several combat operations. I witnessed vehicles hitting IEDs. I was involved in several firefights with the Taliban.

I spent a lot of time predominantly in forward operating base Wilson, and I did a lot of operations out of Zhari-Panjwai, which, as you know, is probably one of the most dangerous areas.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Were you with the artillery or with another unit?