Evidence of meeting #71 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Who asked that this publicly funded foundation be named after the former prime minister?
4:50 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
I do not know.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
In your experience, if you have been involved in the creation of foundations like this one, do you think it is fair that a foundation endowed with public funds meets certain criteria and certain commitments?
4:50 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
I do not have an opinion on that.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
As a former Clerk of the Privy Council, do you not have an opinion on the fact that foundations that receive public funds are not required to meet certain commitments?
4:50 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
Their commitments are set out in the endowment agreement. That is what we should focus on when it comes to performance.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
In the case of the Trudeau Foundation, you were no longer Clerk of the Privy Council when the endowment agreement was signed. On the other hand, have you been involved in other endowment agreements for other foundations?
4:50 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
No. I do not remember.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Okay.
On the other hand, would you consider it fair and appropriate that if the criteria and commitments set out in the agreement are not met, the endowment initially received by the foundation could be revoked?
4:50 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
I do not know. It is a legal question, I guess.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Is it a legal question, or is it a question of fairness and ethics?
4:50 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
It is your job to know that, madam.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Absolutely, and I am asking for your opinion as someone who has served for 20 years in the public sector.
4:50 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
If that money was stolen or something took place that was not compatible with the objectives at all, the answer would be that it could be revoked. However, quite frankly, everything I saw was consistent with the objectives of the foundation.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor again for two and a half minutes, please.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Cappe, I want to refer to something you mentioned that I found to be interesting. You made a distinction, and I want to know why you think that distinction exists. You made a distinction between a leaker and a whistle-blower in reference to your comments about the allegations of foreign interference and the participation of that by the Pierre Elliott Foundation. That's the kind of evidence I find to be quite interesting and the kind of perception and perspective that I think is very interesting.
Why do you say that?
4:55 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
A whistle-blower is someone who sees illegal activity and wants to make sure that it is dealt with. A leaker takes something that's a secret and releases it.
I mean, right now, if you're watching what's going on in the United States, a President of the United States has been indicted for taking secrets away from secret facilities. At least in his case, he keeps it in his bathroom.
In the case of the leaker, he took it out into the public. That's illegal. I mean, imagine if—
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
You're confident that there's nothing illegal. Even though you didn't serve there during the time of these allegations, you're—
4:55 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
I haven't seen the document. I don't know what it is.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
4:55 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
I read the article.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
4:55 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
I could be proven wrong.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
4:55 p.m.
Prof. Mel Cappe
I don't assume that it's illegal.