Public Safety Committee on March 18th, 2010

[William Baker]

I'll answer briefly, and then I'll ask Mr. Kirvan to respond.

Crime prevention continues to be an important part of the programming coming from the public safety portfolio. We are seized with the fact of the time it has taken to process requests for crime prevention projects. We've made some good progress on that recently, and we'll continue to look at ways we can streamline that.

Perhaps I'll ask Mr. Kirvan if he has anything to add.

[Myles Kirvan]

We've done much better in this current fiscal year over last year; we've spent about 50% more. We have not spent all the moneys available this year either.

We went through the repositioning and the three separate funds. That has taken its time in terms of our own officials adjusting to it, the review times and so on.

It's interesting. Honourable member Mourani raised a question about money, and this year there will be some money left. We have spent another $10 million over where we were last year.

Obviously I'll look into it, as I mentioned I would. But in talking about the next fiscal year, in terms of ongoing programming--these are multi-year agreements, and some of them are several years out, which was also one of the changes made--it may be that is accounting for more of the funds being taken, because we're trying to maximize our opportunities within the funds available in the next fiscal year.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

One last question. It's a yes or no answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Very quickly.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Is there money in this budget for compensation for Mr. Almalki, Mr. Elmaati, and Mr. Nureddin?

[William Baker]

Of course those are still active cases before the court. It would be improper for us to comment on that.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

So there's no money in the budget for that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We're going to go to Mr. Rathgeber, please, for five minutes.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And thank you to the witnesses for your time today and for your service to Canadians in helping to keep us all safe.

I want to pick up on a theme of questions commenced by my colleague Mr. McColeman regarding disaster response. I was certainly happy to hear the government's announcement this week concerning coordinating the efforts for disaster response.

I'm specifically going to ask a question about the estimates because I understand that's why we're here. Gentlemen, Haiti is no longer on the front pages of our newspapers, but Canada's commitment to rebuilding Haiti is long-term. Two figures caught my attention in the supplementary estimates, on pages 165 and 167 respectively. One is $1.118 million for the Canada Border Services Agency for rebuilding Haiti, and the other is $3.932 million for Haiti RCMP. My questions are to President Rigby and Assistant Commissioner Sweeney respectively. Could you enlighten me as to how those moneys are to be employed?

[Stephen Rigby]

Certainly, Mr. Chair.

In the normal course of events the border agency maintains a migration integrity officer in Haiti, whose job it is to work in the airport in Port-au-Prince checking documents, making sure the people getting on the plane are appropriately coming to Canada.

When the relief effort commenced, one of the things we did was to supplement that officer with two others in Haiti and another one in the Dominican Republic. The funds we saw through the supplementary estimates were substantially for the maintenance of those officers during the relief effort--the travel and support costs for them. There were also a few dollars for some of the coordination costs in Ottawa.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you.

[Deputy Commissioner William Sweeney, Senior Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

The money that is reflected in the supplementary estimates is associated with our immediate response to the disaster in Haiti, not our long-term commitment to restoring the police service to a level of competency and professionalism that can make Haitians proud.

The $3.9 million we spent was for the repatriation of the remains of our two members who were killed in the disaster; it was in relation to disaster victim identification and other immediate pressures that were facing our contingent in theatre. We had to bring people out--people who were traumatized as a result of the earthquake itself--and put people in.

More importantly, what is not reflected within the supplementary estimates is an increase in total of the Canadian police arrangement in providing services to Haiti. We've increased our establishment there to approximately 150 Canadian police officers, including providing a senior RCMP officer to be the deputy commissioner of operations in Haiti. It's a significant commitment.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you. Both of your agencies are to be commended for your rapid response in helping that country redevelop from the disaster relief.

Commissioner Head, I want you to further elaborate on a question from Mr. Oliphant regarding construction of prisons. If I heard you correctly, I don't think you said there wasn't going to be a capital plan for prisons, and I'm not sure I understand the correlation between the closure of prison farms and expansion of prisons.

Was it not your response or perhaps the minister's response that there was going to be capital spent on prisons in terms of renovation and retrofitting and bringing existing facilities up to health and safety standards?

[Don Head]

Yes, we do have some money available for us to address some of the health and safety standard issues, some of the maintenance issues. The answer is yes.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you.

Those are my questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you. You had one minute left, but we'll move over to the Liberal Party now.

Mr. Holland.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to the department officials for staying in the second hour to answer our questions.

Maybe I could start with Mr. Head.

In the e-mail that you had sent that I referenced earlier, when you referenced major new construction initiatives that you're going to be pursuing in the coming years, would it be correct to say that you weren't referencing new-build prisons over the next five years? Is that correct?

[Don Head]

Yes. The general communication that went out to staff was to talk about the efforts that we're going to have to put in place to address some of the refurbishing, renovation issues that are going on in the institutions, some of the temporary accommodation pieces. So there's nothing to imply that any new prisons have been approved.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Approved or planned? Is there any planning for new-build prisons that you've been involved in at all?

[Don Head]

There's nothing approved or planned at this point, no.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Perhaps I could ask you the question, then. Already the prison system is near bursting at the seams in many of the places I visited. There's going to be a massive influx. Even by your own e-mail, there's going to be a massive influx of new inmates.

Do you have an estimate of how many inmates there are going to be? Do you have a plan of where you're going to put them, and can you share both that plan and those estimates?

[Don Head]

We're still trying to assess what the actual numbers will be. There are several components that we're sifting through right now. We're waiting for the fiscal year to end to look at our population growth, because what we do is go back and look at our normal forecasts as they relate to just normal growth as a result of the flow that we've experienced over the years. We're assessing the impact of the bill tackling violent crime, and the Truth in Sentencing Act as well.

So we're not quite at the point where our numbers are finalized. Part of the job of the team that we're putting together is to help us to finalize those numbers and then the plans we're going with. So at this point we're in the early stages of bringing together our plans.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

There are many, many more pieces of legislation, so these numbers are only going to grow and grow. Already we're near a point of capacity.

Maybe you could do this. Do you have a deadline of when you're going to be able to provide those estimates and that plan, and do you see any possible way you can deal with that influx without building new prisons? Is that even conceivable?

[Don Head]

That's what we're assessing. There are several measures we're looking at right now, including temporary double bunking, the use of temporary accommodations, and the use of new living units within existing institutions. Once we've at least completed that short-term assessment, we'll then have a determination as to whether there is anything more needed.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

So in terms of a deadline, with all of these bills that are coming out and all of its implications for corrections, what is your deadline to have a plan and estimates?