Evidence of meeting #34 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was factors.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

  • Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Roger Préfontaine
  • Mary Campbell  Director General, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
  • Michel Laprade  Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Correctional Service Canada

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Ajax—Pickering, ON

There is another option before actually issuing a subpoena. The gentleman can be informed that if he refuses to testify, the committee will undoubtedly have him subpoenaed, that he has a choice to come voluntarily and if he doesn't he will be subpoenaed. If the situation is explained to him this way, surely he will make the right choice.

3:35 p.m.

Bloc

Maria Mourani Ahuntsic, QC

Can Mr. Préfontaine tell us exactly...?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

Go ahead, Mr. Préfontaine.

October 20th, 2010 / 3:35 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Roger Préfontaine

Mrs. Mourani, I issued an invitation to Mr. Small, the Assistant Deputy Minister, Adult Correctional Institutions for Ontario's Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Early this afternoon, someone in his office called me to say that Mr. Small was declining the invitation. That's all.

3:35 p.m.

Bloc

Maria Mourani Ahuntsic, QC

I see. Then a subpoena is in order, Mr. Chair! We have five days and not much time to waste. The gentleman must testify! Therefore, I'd like him to be subpoenaed.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

Did I know about this before?

3:35 p.m.

The Clerk

No.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

Then how did they know about it?

3:35 p.m.

The Clerk

Because I informed Madame Mourani's office that one of their witnesses was declining. That's why.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

Okay. I can follow this up again. I was unaware of this. We will follow this up again and perhaps at the next meeting discuss where we want to go from there, but I would like to explain it to him and see what his response is.

Go ahead, Mr. Davies.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Chairman, on a similar note, this committee published a calendar in which we all agreed as a committee to have one day to explore the Fadden issue. We had two witnesses scheduled for that. I understand that you can't subpoena a cabinet minister or member of Parliament, but you can subpoena--and we ought to subpoena--Madame Morin.

I want to express publicly here how disappointed I was yesterday that as a vice-chair of this committee I found out through the media that the minister was not appearing and that Madame Morin was not appearing.

When we left the last meeting, it was you, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. MacKenzie as the ranking Conservative, who said you would be checking with the minister and checking on dates. Nobody had the courtesy to this committee to even let me know that wasn't happening until a media release went out saying that the minister refused to appear.

3:35 p.m.

An hon. member

I have a point of order.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies Vancouver Kingsway, BC

This is a point of order that I'm raising right now.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

You can't do a point of order on a point of order.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Chairman, the day that we were to study the Fadden issue was not merely limited to two witnesses. It was a topic as well. We have to find another day. This day can't just disappear while we replace it with Bill C-5. That calendar schedule was agreed to by this committee. We all made compromises--