Public Safety Committee on Sept. 29th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Very quickly, please.

[Don Head]

There are several things that we can do if they refuse, including putting them in what we call a “dry cell.” That's where any of their bodily movements are captured and then we get to search it--not a very pleasant task for our staff to perform, but we can do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

It's a fascinating discussion.

My question really almost gets to the purpose of the study we're doing, because it sounds like you have everything pretty much under control, Mr. Head. You're taking new approaches to the problem of drugs being jettisoned into the yards. You're able to conduct urine tests. You're pleased that Bill C-10 includes a provision for penalties for those trafficking within penitentiaries.

So my question is, what more are you looking for from this government to make these places more drug-free?

[Don Head]

I think a big part of it is linked to the issue of offender accountability, because as long as we still have individuals who test positive in urinalysis it means we haven't accomplished our task fully, and if we miss one pill that comes in through the front gate and it results in somebody dying, or somebody getting seriously hurt, then we still have a problem.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

What do you mean by “offender accountability?”

[Don Head]

Accountability for the fact that they may have tested positive for urinalysis. The sanctions that are available to us, for example, in the current Corrections and Conditional Release Act were formed in 1992, and some of the sanctions there are not necessarily significant enough for us to deal with some of those behaviours.

On the criminal piece, I think there's a very good piece in Bill C-10. I really look forward to that piece being passed. But in terms of some of the lesser types of offences that may not go the criminal route, that are dealt with within our own internal disciplinary processes—

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I thought you said at the beginning it was sufficient. Somebody asked if the act was sufficient for you, the correctional act, I forget the long name of it.

[Don Head]

I said for the most part. There are other errors. There are some.... For example, the one member who asked the question about the searching and the body cavity searching, I actually thought the question was going to go in a different path, because there is an area we've had some issues about, doing strip searches of offenders who move from one level of security into another. We need to make some regulatory changes to make it very clear so that it gives my staff....

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

But the problem is by the time the offender gets hold of the drug, the drug has already crossed some kind of threshold into the institution. We're talking about people being addicted, whether it be to tobacco and so on and so forth, and the solution we are looking at really is more addict accountability. We're not talking about how the drug gets in in the first place.

Do you have any stats, for example, about what percentage of inmates have access to drugs? I think stats have been issued in the past. I recall a 12% figure or an 11.5% figure. I forget exactly what those figures are referring to. Would you have any insight into those?

[Don Head]

I think the figures you are referring to are the urinalysis positive results.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

So we've gone from 12% positive results to 11.5%.

[Don Head]

No. We were around 11% to 12% positive tests. We're down to I think it's around 7.5% right now who test positive.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

So that means fewer drugs are coming into the institution.

[Don Head]

It's indicating to us now that fewer inmates are testing positive, but still roughly 7.5% of my population are showing up positive when we do the random sampling. For me, that's still a significant risk.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

So it's still 7%. It hasn't changed.

[Don Head]

It has gone down from 11% or 12% to 7.5%. So for me that's a move in the right direction. My goal is zero. People may say that's overly optimistic, but to be honest, in the kind of environment I operate in, I have to have a zero goal.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Do you know how the drugs are coming in, other than being thrown over the fence?

[Don Head]

They are being smuggled in by visitors, family members, contractors. As I say, we have very few staff. We've just finished dismissing 12 staff this year.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

What level were the staff? What kind of staff?

[Don Head]

It varied. We had food service officers, psychologists, correctional officers.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

One issue you brought up was correction plans, which are very important to any inmate who wants to apply for parole, for example. He or she has to have completed a corrections plan. Is that correct?

[Don Head]

Yes. A correctional plan is completed for every inmate.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I'm told there are waiting lists for the correctional plans; inmates who would like to get on a plan just can't because of the waiting lists. Maybe there aren't enough personnel to put plans together. Where's the bottleneck?

[Don Head]

A very good question.

We have encountered some lengthy wait lists to get into the programs. As I mentioned briefly, the new approach to offering programs--the integrated correctional program model that we're piloting in the Pacific region and in the Atlantic region--is a way to get offenders starting their programs within 45 days of starting their sentence, as opposed to the 150 to 250 days after they started their sentence. We know that's a problem.