Evidence of meeting #70 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much.
We'll now move back to Mr. Hawn, please, for seven minutes.
February 12th, 2013 / 9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for being here.
I have a couple of questions, first for Ms. Sharkey.
You talked about the increased cost of the rent and so on of the RCMP building. Are you getting payments in lieu of taxes?
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I mean getting grants in lieu of the taxes you would otherwise collect—property taxes and so on—from federal institutions such as the RCMP.
9:10 a.m.
Deputy Mayor, City of Brooks
The rental cost of the building is absorbed in our tax base.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I understand that. Are you getting grants in lieu of taxes that you would otherwise collect?
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
That would surprise me.
What's the reaction of what I'll call the traditional residents of Brooks to the increase in policing because of the influx of foreign workers and so on? How is that going?
9:10 a.m.
Deputy Mayor, City of Brooks
It's always interesting when you have long-term residents and you have an influx of people and diverse cultures. This has come about over a time period. People are generally accepting and open. I don't really know if there's a correlation of the impact of the cost, though.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Okay. Let's switch back to Mr. Vrbanovic.
You talked about legislative changes. Are there any legislative changes that you would like to see that you've discussed within FCM that would make law enforcement simpler, more effective, or more cost effective?
9:15 a.m.
Past President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Mr. Hawn, I think it's fair to say that we leave much of the specific, legislative agenda to the federal government to deal with those issues in terms of crime specifically. Our focus is on the impact of any changes that happen and how they play out on our streets, in our communities, by our police forces who have to deal with it from a policing perspective, and what that means ultimately in terms of roles, responsibilities, and resources.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I don't want to put you on the spot, but do you have a suggestion of an outcome that you would tie back to a legislative change?
9:15 a.m.
Past President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
I do know, for example, that one of the things that our partner in this discussion, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, has talked about are efficiencies in the judiciary and looking at the ways our judicial system operates and how that can help address some costs around policing in our country.
For example, we have extended periods of time when officers are sitting and waiting for cases to come to trial and so on. That obviously is not the most effective way to deal with a police officer's time in a given day.
So that's one example that comes to mind. As well, I referenced the Prince Albert example earlier and looking at how different government agencies across all three orders of government can begin to work better together, recognizing that there are limited resources to deal with the challenges that we face. Whether it's dealing with policing, mental health, health care, and so on, we need to start looking at these things more comprehensively in order to more effectively use the taxpayer's dollar.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
So some of the changes we've made to the judicial system with respect to, for example, taking away the double credit for time while waiting for trial and so on.... Am I correct in reading into what you said, that anything to make the judicial system more efficient and timely would be helpful in terms of the extra work by policing to be part of that sometimes very laborious, ongoing process?
9:15 a.m.
Past President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
With all due respect, I'm not going to ....
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. But just in case they come out.
9:15 a.m.
Past President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
I'm not going to express an opinion on the specific example that you talked about. What I will say is that anything that can help the system run more efficiently, that keeps police officers on the road as opposed to sitting in courtrooms is one factor out of many that'll help us deal with this issue in our communities.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Time is money, and time is something you can't get back.
9:15 a.m.
Past President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
That's right. I'm sure that across this room, there's a wide range of opinions on how that time can be better used.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Speaking of that and best practices, lowest cost, and so on, a lot of that comes back to time. Police officers only have 24 hours a day they can work.
Do you have any specific measures that you have discussed at FCM that would point to saving police officers' time?
9:15 a.m.
Past President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
When you look at the kinds of things that police officers deal with on a daily basis in terms of addressing issues and challenges in the community, anything that can get them back on the road quicker is helpful. We've talked, for example, about some communities that have created integrated domestic violence units. In those instances, they've been able to bring various partners together to more effectively deal with the perpetrators of the crime but also to deal with victims of crime.
What's important to remember is that we as an organization aren't really focusing on the operational issues because we rely on the expertise of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, the CPA, and the police boards to really focus on that kind of information. We're really looking at how to focus on roles, responsibilities, and resources. I know I keep referring to that, but I think that really is the key message from us in order to make the best use of municipal tax dollars and tax dollars from the other two orders of government.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Is it fair to say that as a municipality probably your biggest responsibility is to deal with the victims, your citizens? You leave the law enforcement to law enforcement, but you pick up the slack on the victims' side?
9:20 a.m.
Past President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
We deal with all aspects of it, quite frankly.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much.
We'll now move to Mr. Scarpaleggia, please.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Thank you, Chair.
Welcome to the witnesses.
I would just like to clarify some points that were raised, starting with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. I believe you have a report which no doubt you mentioned, entitled “Towards Equity and Efficiency in Policing”. Is that correct?
The report apparently states that as an interim measure the Government of Canada should provide an equity and efficiency allocation to compensate municipal governments for their role in enforcing federal policing mandates, and provide sufficient funding for municipalities to meet their growing responsibilities.
In your presentation you mentioned in passing that municipalities have assumed about $500 million in additional policing costs which I assume you attribute to federal requirements they have to meet, or the requirements in criminal law that somehow they have to meet. When you talk about that $500 million in extra policing costs and when you seem to attribute that to a kind of federal driver, if you will, what are you saying? I'm not sure I'm clear on that $500 million of extra costs.