Public Safety Committee on April 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 103 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. To prevent disruptive audio feedback incidents during our meeting, we kindly ask that all participants keep their earpieces away from any microphones. Audio feedback incidents can seriously injure interpreters and disrupt our proceedings. I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to the motion adopted on October 23, 2023, the committee resumes its study on the growing problem of car thefts in Canada.

We have, today, two panels of witnesses. I would like to now welcome our witnesses for the first panel. From the Montreal Port Authority, we have Félixpier Bergeron, director, port protection and business continuity; and Julien Baudry, director, public affairs. From the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, we have Anita Gill, director of health, safety and security.

Welcome to you all. Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks, after which we will proceed with rounds of questions.

I now invite Mr. Bergeron and Mr. Baudry to make an opening statement, please.

[Julien Baudry, Director, Public Affairs, Montreal Port Authority]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We are obviously pleased to be here to talk about a subject that concerns us.

The Montreal Port Authority has some 275 employees, and we believe that fighting crime is part of our social responsibility.

You can imagine that if Montreal is an important port in Canada, it is first and foremost because it is used to import essential goods and export the best we have to offer, and not to export proceeds of crime. Annually, the Port of Montreal receives and exports approximately 36 million tonnes of goods worth $151 billion. This represents 3.5% of Canada's gross domestic product.

It is important to know that these goods are transported in 1.7 million containers. These containers pass through the port and sometimes stay there for two or three days. So the port, like all other Canadian port authorities, is primarily a freight-transit site. No containers are filled on site and all containers that pass through have been previously sealed.

Of course, Montreal is often mentioned in connection with the export of vehicles. There are essentially two reasons for this: We are very close to the major urban centres of Quebec and Ontario, but we are also the main container port for supplying markets in Africa or the Middle East. According to Interpol, these two markets are among the destinations for these stolen vehicles.

Obviously, we do not work alone. Our responsibility is limited, but we work in collaboration with our partners. That is why the investments that have been recently announced in the Canada Border Services Agency, not to mention the renewed collaboration with our police partners, allow us not only to improve security, but also to assume our responsibilities.

Finally, I want to say that we do not want to stop there. We want to do more. That is why we are very pleased to take part in the committee's discussions today.

I now give the floor to Mr. Bergeron.

[Félixpier Bergeron, Director, Port Protection and Business Continuity, Montreal Port Authority]

The Canada Marine Act, which governs marine infrastructure, gives us powers and obligations. Under this act, we have a responsibility to ensure the overall safety of people and goods transiting through the Port of Montreal. We are not talking about the cargo inside the containers; we are talking about the container. This means that access to the port is monitored 24 hours a day, seven days a week, at all times. Any access to the port is monitored and logged.

Although we do not have the authority to inspect containers, we have launched and supported initiatives to help police and businesses conduct their investigations and activities. For example, in addition to the spaces we provide to customs officials, we provide the spaces, buildings and infrastructure needed for those people to carry out their operations.

More than 800 police and customs officers have access to the port at any given time. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP, the Sûreté du Québec, the Service de police de la Ville de Montréal and customs all have access to the port. Access cards have been issued to these agencies. More than 600 cameras are also monitoring the entire port, and the police has access to them to carry out their activities.

In addition, we are working with private companies that monitor or track stolen vehicles in the port using the famous Tag stolen vehicle tracking system. We have installed antennas for them. They are present in the port to detect vehicles. In collaboration with these companies, we are in the process of reassessing the number of antennas they need to more quickly and accurately identify vehicles. They currently have a certain number of antennas, but if we add some, we will be able to better locate trains and trucks. We are proud to be part of this initiative, which is currently being developed.

We have also launched a national program to welcome all companies with technologies similar to these antennas. We invite them to contact us so that they can install their antennas at no cost. We will provide them with the necessary urban or port furniture at no cost. This recent program is under way. We do not have any new data to share with you, but we are working on it.

We also have discussions with the Automotive Industries Association of Canada, in particular, to try to understand their needs and to find other ways to support their efforts against the scourge of vehicle theft.

It should be noted that the problem is not just at the Port of Montreal, even though that seems to be the case at this time.

We also have to think about setting up an organization that includes the 17 Canadian port authorities, or CPAs. Otherwise, the problem will move to another port.

We are open to the discussion to find solutions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you to you both.

Ms. Gill, please give an opening statement.

[Anita Gill, Director, Health, Safety and Security, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority]

Thank you and good morning.

On behalf of the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, thank you for the opportunity to address the committee today.

My name is Anita Gill. I'm the port security officer and director of health, safety and security for the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority. My experience prior to joining the port authority was over 18 years in law enforcement working as a peace officer in all three levels of government: municipal, provincial and federal. I then joined the port authority just over 10 years ago, and I'm currently leading programs in safety, security, compliance and administrative enforcement.

As Canada's largest port, the port of Vancouver is home to 29 major marine terminals across five business sectors, including four container terminals with a total annual capacity of three million TEUs. The port environment is a complex one with many stakeholders contributing to the movement of goods to support Canada's trade.

One of the many regulations governing marine security is the Marine Transportation Security Act and regulations that outline the security roles and responsibilities within the marine environment. These regulations set out requirements for all port authorities and the requirements for independent marine terminal operators regarding the security of marine transportation and the protection of critical infrastructure.

Each of the 17 Canadian port authorities are responsible for implementing security measures within its jurisdictional boundaries, exclusive of leased spaces. The responsibility for security within those leased spaces falls to each independent terminal operator that has entered into a lease with that port authority.

The RCMP and CBSA are responsible for border protection and transnational crime, while municipal police agencies respond to calls for service from the terminals. Last, Transport Canada determines which categories of persons are required to have security clearances within the marine port environment. For the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority region, we have 29 different law enforcement and regulatory agencies that have a mandate on our port jurisdiction, and we have ongoing relationships with these agencies.

Considering the complex environment I've just outlined, I have a few suggestions for us to share collectively.

First, the Marine Transportation Security Act was introduced in 1994, and the regulations followed in 2004 after 9/11. This provided us with the legislative framework for the security of our marine transportation system in Canada. As the regulation is currently under review, we would like to provide input through ACPA for government consideration to potentially expand its focus to assist with some of the challenges we're currently facing.

Second, we know that port authorities are not responsible for the interdiction of criminal activity, which falls clearly to RCMP and CBSA. However, port security and port policing exist on a continuum, and enhanced information sharing between law enforcement and port authorities is essential.

At the port of Vancouver, we chair the committee called the PIMSWG, which includes senior leadership from regional Transport Canada, RCMP, CBSA, Vancouver Police Department and Delta Police Department, as they're our two largest municipal police forces on port property. The committee allows for ongoing collaboration, and we've seen many joint successes over the years.

Our second recommendation is for government to reinitiate the national port security committee with ACPA and port authorities to allow for ongoing national collaboration on marine security and policing matters.

For my third point, I think we can all agree that law enforcement agencies have an obligation to protect the jurisdiction in which they serve, and we appreciate that they have multiple competing priorities to balance. Here in the Pacific region, the number one ask of our law enforcement partners at the PIMSWG was for the port authority to share the inner workings of the port of Vancouver: our terminal operations, our labour operations, trucking operations and the supply chain environment.

I'll share the wise words of a senior RCMP officer who said, “If we don't know what 'in place' looks like, how are we going to detect something out of place? That's police investigation 101.” That really resonated with us at the VFPA, so we worked with our labour partners: ILWU, B.C. Maritime Employers Association, cruise and shipping partners, trucking and rail partners, terminal operators and many other port partners.

The two-day, in-person course was co-created and endorsed by RCMP's federal serious and organized crime division, Pacific region, and CBSA operations and intelligence, Pacific region. It was delivered at a confidential level exclusively for peace officer members working at the port of Vancouver. It was well received.

Our third recommendation is that government consider similar national training for all law enforcement who have a jurisdiction within our 17 Canadian port authorities.

In closing, we at the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority are very pleased to see the leadership role that the government has demonstrated through the recent national auto theft summit and our subsequent engagement. We are encouraged by the recent meetings with Public Safety Canada and Transport Canada and their collaboration with the VFPA and ACPA on the auto theft issue in our country.

On behalf of the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to provide input today. I will be happy to take any questions the committee may have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Gill.

We're going to move right into questions.

Mr. Caputo, you're up first for six minutes, please.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I apologize to our witnesses today. This is my first meeting on this issue. I apologize if some of my questions are a bit elementary, because I'm just getting my feet wet here.

I was struck by Mr. Bergeron saying that all access points are monitored to the port. Is that correct?

[Félixpier Bergeron]

Yes.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Theoretically, any stolen vehicle is going through one of these monitored access points. Do I have that right?

[Félixpier Bergeron]

Yes.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Is there anything in place to figure out, as a vehicle goes through, whether it was stolen?

[Félixpier Bergeron]

If there are vehicles inside containers, they're inside containers. They cannot be seen. The container is sealed. We don't have the authority or power to open the container to see what's inside. It belongs to the CBSA.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

The containers are all sealed typically before they arrive. Is that right?

[Félixpier Bergeron]

Yes, they have to be sealed.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

In your experience, how often does CBSA go through those containers?

[Félixpier Bergeron]

I can't really say, but it's not much.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

How big or small are the containers that we're typically dealing with here?

[Félixpier Bergeron]

The containers are either 20-foot or 40-foot. Those are the two standards. There are some that are 53-foot, but they're rare.

They can fit two cars in a 20-foot container or four cars in a 40-foot container.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

At the point of entry, is it possible to determine what the actual cargo is? I assume it's not, because—

[Félixpier Bergeron]

No. We don't have access to that information.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Ms. Gill, you talked about the inner workings here and the necessity of training for peace officers. In your experience, as somebody who's done a great deal of law enforcement, is there one aspect of—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I have a point of order.

I'm sorry for the interruption. It's my understanding that ParlVU is not working and the audio is not being recorded. Can we just double-check that?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

The clerk is going to give us an explanation.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Simon Larouche]

We are aware of the issue. Right now the issue is with the English channel. The channels for the floor and French work. We have technicians working on it. We are recording everything.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Can our members hear? Is the Zoom still working? I'm worried about people online.

I just want to make sure.