Public Safety Committee on April 18th, 2024

[Chief Inspector Michel Patenaude, Director of Criminal Investigation, Sûreté du Québec]

Absolutely.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to begin by saying hello to all members of the committee. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify today.

My name is Michel Patenaude. I have been the Director of Criminal Investigations at the Sûreté du Québec since last December. Prior to that, I spent most of my career fighting organized crime. I have been involved in that fight since 2005.

Vehicle theft is a growing concern in Quebec, where, like our neighbours in Ontario, we have seen a marked increase in this type of activity in recent years. Even if it is a property crime, public safety issues are starting to emerge, such as violence sometimes used to steal a vehicle or dangerous behaviour on the road, such as high-speed driving.

As committee members are no doubt aware, Quebec is the preferred transit point for the export of stolen vehicles from Quebec and Ontario, due to the strategic location of the Port of Montreal. To address the problem of vehicle theft, the Sûreté du Québec implemented provincial coordination measures in March 2022. The coordination began with the Rechercher initiative and continues to this day with other investigations. Over the past two years, this coordination has made it possible to develop partnerships with various key players, including the Canada Border Services Agency and the Port of Montreal. It has also made it possible to provide assistance to various partner organizations, including the Ontario Provincial Police, as well as municipal police forces in Quebec and Ontario. It made it possible to set up a team dedicated to collecting intelligence on exporters of stolen vehicles. This team is currently made up of police officers from the Sûreté du Québec, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the police services of the City of Montreal and the greater Longueuil area. In addition, since February 5, the Sûreté du Québec has been mobilizing some 30 members of the joint regional squad on the north shore of the greater Montreal area, on a full-time basis, in order to step up its efforts to deal with the problem of vehicle theft. Eleven municipal police forces on the north shore are taking part in efforts aimed specifically at exporters.

Over the past year, these measures have led to 43 investigations, 402 vehicle seizures, 202 container inspections and 11 arrests. The Sûreté du Québec also participated, along with the Ontario Provincial Police, the Canada Border Services Agency, the Service de police de la Ville de Montréal and the Équité Association, in searches conducted in the Port of Montreal as part of Project Vector, which was carried out by the Ontario Provincial Police. This project, which began in December 2023, resulted in the recovery of approximately 600 vehicles whose thefts had been reported. Finally, a virtual interprovincial and cross-border intelligence team on the export of stolen vehicles has been set up using resources from the Sûreté du Québec, the Ontario Provincial Police, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Canada Border Services Agency. Two Sûreté du Québec officers are also part of the joint team working against vehicle theft in Ottawa, which is led by the Ontario Provincial Police.

Of course, collaboration with our partners is paramount to the success of the anti-vehicle theft activities. As evidenced by actions taken in recent years, the pillars of strong and effective collaboration are the fluid and ongoing exchange of current intelligence, the establishment of joint teams, the conduct of ad hoc joint operations, and mutual assistance among partners.

Finally, after taking part in the National Summit on Combatting Auto Theft organized by the federal government on February 8, the Sûreté du Québec decided to follow the federal government's lead and organize a Quebec symposium on vehicle theft, to be held in Montreal on May 30. I would also like to point out that the Association des directeurs de police du Québec, the Service de police de la Ville de Montréal, the Ontario Provincial Police and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police are involved in organizing this event. The symposium will be an opportunity to bring together public and private partners and share ideas, in the spirit of collaboration and innovation, with a view to assessing the current situation of vehicle theft, identifying new prevention and enforcement approaches in order to optimize response capacity, consolidate existing partnerships and foster the development of new collaborations.

Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Patenaude.

Mr. Desmarais, please, go ahead.

[Yannick Desmarais, Commander, Section head, Service de police de la Ville de Montréal]

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for inviting the Service de police de la Ville de Montréal, or SPVM, to speak today. As the commanding officer of the investigation projects unit for the city's southern division, I am responsible for the SPVM's activities against vehicle theft.

As you know, vehicle theft is a problem that has become significantly worse in recent years. Montreal is one of the cities that has been hit hard. From 2020 to 2023, the number of theft cases increased by 147% in our territory, which is considerable. These thefts have a significant impact on the victims, both financially and in terms of their sense of safety. There is also a possible link between vehicle theft and gun violence. Suspects are often in possession of a firearm when they are arrested while perpetrating a theft or in the course of an investigation. Our intelligence and various investigations lead us to assume that they acquired these firearms with the significant profits generated by vehicle theft.

This situation has led us, as a police service, to review our ways of doing things and to put in place new strategies to curb this scourge. For example, from 2022 to January 2024, we collaborated on the Rechercher project with our partners at the SQ, the Sûreté du Québec. This investigation project allowed us to send a very clear first message to networks that specialize in exporting overseas, since 39 suspects were arrested and 565 stolen vehicles were recovered.

Still, the problem continued to grow. The shortage of new vehicles and the various breakdowns in supply chains that have not been resolved as a result of the pandemic created a situation where vehicle thefts remain very attractive to criminal organizations.

At the SPVM, our priority has always been to work with our partners. In 2022 and 2023, we continued to build on this approach, which has always produced excellent results. After discussing with our partners at the Canada Border Services Agency or CBSA, the SQ, the Ontario Provincial Police or OPP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or RCMP, and the Equity Association, we decided to pursue that approach further.

Theft rings move from one city to another and from one province to another. In order to destabilize them, we must be able to respond vigorously everywhere they operate. The National Summit on Combatting Auto Theft, held in February, confirmed to us that this strategy is the right one.

Just a month after the summit, we carried out a major operation as part of Operation Volcano. Together with the OPP, we arrested 34 vehicle theft suspects in Montreal to bring them to justice in Ontario. Operation Volcano gave us the opportunity to send another very clear message to criminals, which is that there is no border between our provinces and that, no matter where they are, we will arrest them. The arrested suspects were all residents of Quebec. They thought they could get away with stealing vehicles from our neighbours in Ontario. We showed them how wrong they were. This also allowed us to take our level of collaboration with the OPP to a new level. For weeks, our investigative teams worked together in the same premises. We had never seen such close collaboration between our two organizations before.

Closer collaboration between the SPVM, the OPP, the CBSA, the RCMP, the SQ and the Équité Association group has also produced very concrete results as part of Project Vector at the Port of Montreal. This joint project on the ground, which is ongoing, demonstrates the significant strength derived from our collaboration. Between December 2023 and April 3, 2024, nearly 600 stolen vehicles were intercepted at the Port of Montreal.

All these operations, which affect both the bottom and the top of the pyramid, weaken the criminal element. They also undermine the sense of impunity that had gradually taken hold in this environment.

At the SPVM, we also take action against these theft rings with our own investigation projects. For example, last February we disbanded an organization that specializes in stealing vehicles for resale abroad. Nine suspects were arrested and 55 stolen vehicles were recovered. Not a day goes by without our patrol officers on the ground arresting suspects. Also, prevention is key, so we have appeared a lot in the media and have been doing outreach activities in the community.

Our most recent statistics show a 30% drop in vehicle thefts in Montreal in the first quarter of 2024. It is obviously too early to call that a durable trend. However, I think it is the result of a combination of efforts by all partners involved, including police operations and public prevention.

However, in spite of good news, we should not forget that criminal groups are able to adapt. Vigilance and a proactive and agile approach with our partners remain essential if we want to continue reducing these criminal organizations' activities. In order for the reduction to be durable, we must keep up our efforts and continue working together from a national perspective.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Desmarais.

We'll now go online to Mr. Lamy.

[Guillaume Lamy, Senior Vice-President, Personal Lines, Canadian Operations, Intact Insurance]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. My name is Guillaume Lamy, and I am the senior vice-president, personal lines, at Intact Financial Corporation.

Intact is Canada's leading and largest provider of property and casualty insurance. One in four Canadians from coast to coast count on us to protect their homes, cars and businesses. We play a critical role in managing difficult situations, including accidents and natural disasters.

I want to thank the committee for the invitation to appear today on this important issue.

Intact was pleased to have participated in the national summit on combatting auto theft. I'm encouraged that the discussions remain ongoing as we await the release of the national action plan.

I do want to acknowledge the additional measures announced in this week's budget 2024 that will provide law enforcement with additional tools to combat theft. Intact was pleased to see this continued momentum, and we look forward to future strategic measures.

As we heard at the summit, this is not an issue that the insurance industry, law enforcement, manufacturers or government can tackle alone. This is a national crisis that requires a whole-of-society approach to solve. We look forward to bridging the gap between discussion and concrete action to protect Canadians and promote the well-being of our communities.

At Intact, we have been at the forefront of the auto theft crisis, taking the initial calls and witnessing first-hand the impact of theft on our customers. For more than a year, we have been acting forcefully on multiple fronts to address this growing issue. This includes working closely with provincial regulators to raise awareness around theft trends; partnering with companies such as Tag to offer Intact customers the opportunity to install aftermarket tracking devices on their vehicles, sometimes entirely paid for by us, or at a preferred rate; and ramping up communication efforts through our broker channels to encourage customers to protect their vehicles.

Our efforts to date have certainly helped to prevent theft, but they do not address the source of the problem. The sad reality is that Canada has become a prime target for vehicle theft. As this committee has heard and as predicted, auto thefts have continued to be very high since the beginning of 2024. While this is a national problem, it is most prevalent in Ontario and Quebec.

The fact is that criminals, including those in organized crime, see vehicle theft in Canada as a low-risk, high-reward crime. The ability to steal vehicles is increasingly easy, and the penalties for doing so are not strong enough. Whether vehicles are exported or revinned, the profit margins are very high. We need to create the change that moves Canada from a target destination, where organized crime groups easily source vehicles, to a country where cars are too difficult to steal and export to bother trying.

What we've seen in the past couple of years is that theft is what I call a whack-a-mole problem. Targeting specific cars for protection only diverts thieves to another make or model and addressing the issue in one jurisdiction drives bad actors to other opportunities.

Intact recognizes that the cost of living remains top of mind for many Canadians. The unfortunate reality is that vehicle theft is a key reason for increasing premiums for all customers.

We all have a role to play in combatting this trend. This is not an issue that's going to subside without continued action.

From our perspective, continued investments in the CBSA are critical to enhanced investigative and enforcement work. We've seen the positive impacts of a coordinated approach between CBSA and law enforcement, which has led to recoveries and seizures at our rail yards and ports over the past few months, and even in recent weeks. This is very encouraging, but we know that there is more work to be done.

In looking at the U.S., we can see where a harmonization of export rules would provide an enhanced level of protection. For example, in the U.S., a vehicle must be presented 72 hours prior to departure as an export requirement. Introducing the same rule in Canada would allow for more vehicles to be searched prior to export, and ensure the actual VIN matches what is declared on the export declaration form.

We know that auto theft rings are thriving in the current environment because they are so adept at using technology to their advantage. The criminal landscape continues to evolve, and this underscores how important it is for us to always stay ahead of the curve.

The motor vehicle safety regulations have not been updated since 2007. This is an issue that urgently needs to be addressed since we absolutely need anti-theft technology and the latest safety measures to prevent theft.

Finally, information sharing is critical to combatting the trends we continue to see.

We welcome the recent investment directed to Interpol's joint transnational vehicle crime project. Continued targeted investments such as this will lead to the recovery of more stolen vehicles.

Data-driven partnerships and information disclosure between the public and private sectors has been successful in U.S. jurisdictions. Canada would no doubt see similar success by enhancing the sharing of data.

In closing, I want to thank the committee once again for the invitation and for keeping this critical discussion going.

Rest assured that Intact will always be ready to offer its expertise and resources to ensure the safety and resilience of the community and to protect Canadians from this public safety issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Lamy.

Were going to start the questioning with Mr. Shipley.

Go ahead for six minutes.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here this morning.

I'd like to start off with the two officers, if I may, and get their opinions on this.

We've heard that auto theft has shifted from being a simple issue of property theft to a complex issue of sophisticated, violent organized crime.

Can you describe how these dynamics have changed in recent years and what you're seeing on the ground in Quebec?

[Michel Patenaude]

They have shifted in Quebec. We haven't seen the same violence they are seeing right now with carjackings in Ontario, but we do see that the people who are executing the thefts on the ground are willing to put lives in danger to not get caught. We're seeing that.

One thing to keep in mind is that these organized crime structures that are going from the theft to the exportation overseas are very complex organizations, and they all have different roles and responsibilities in the organization. In terms of violence, we're seeing that it is more on the ground and it's more to evade getting caught.

[Yannick Desmarais]

At the Service de police de la Ville de Montréal, we see exactly the same things when it comes to gun violence: We seize firearms every day. In addition, as we know, a violent incident occurred yesterday and Montreal police officers had to open fire. An investigation is under way. This is obviously a very important situation for us, and we believe there is a connection with organized crime.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you for that. Hopefully those officers were okay, and they weren't hurt in that altercation you just mentioned.

My next question is for the gentleman from Intact, Mr. Lamy.

Mr. Lamy, I recently had a call from a resident in my riding who has a 19-year-old son who has been driving for three years. They indicated that their son had no tickets and no issues, but that their renewal for their insurance came up this year and it was going to cost an additional $70 a month going forward. When this resident phoned their insurance provider—and I'm not sure who their provider was—they indicated that the increase was strictly, and this was the answer they received, due to auto theft.

Are you seeing those types of increases, and is that the way this is affecting people who are already struggling with affordability issues across Canada?

[Guillaume Lamy]

That's a great question.

There are definitely affordability issues, and theft is one cause. We see inflation having an effect on insurance prices across the whole chain. Vehicles are more expensive and more expensive to repair, but obviously theft is one of the major drivers. We've seen the cost of theft really triple for insurance companies between 2018 and today. Just to put things into perspective, at the industry level—not just for Intact—it was $400 million in 2018, and it had gotten to $1.2 billion in the last year for which we have data.

Clearly theft is a key driver. That's why we need to address that as a root cause. At the end of the day, insurance companies are paying out for claims, but as you mentioned it is eventually the customers who pay for these through their insurance premiums.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

Just to clarify, you mentioned that from 2018 to today.... Did you say that insurance rates across Canada have tripled?

Was that your quote, sir?

[Guillaume Lamy]

No. My quote was that the cost of theft was $400 million, and now it's $1.2 billion. The cost of theft alone has tripled.

The insurance premiums have not tripled.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I'm glad we clarified that. Thank you.

You mentioned that your company is promoting tags. You did say you offset some of those costs to customers. Could you just expand on that?

Tag, to my knowledge, just shows the location of it. It's not going to do anything to prevent criminals from stealing cars. They don't know if it has a tag in there. How is that benefiting your company or the owner of the vehicle?

[Guillaume Lamy]

The thing is that, yes, they know there is a tag in there. When Tag installs—

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

How does the criminal know there's a tag in there?

[Guillaume Lamy]

I'm going to get to that.

Basically, Tag is an aftermarket tracking device. When it's installed in the vehicle, a little etching is done on the window of the car. There's what we call the sticker effect, when the thief sees the model they like and then sees it's protected by Tag, they go to the next-door neighbour who doesn't have Tag and takes that car.

We're seeing that only 1% of the cars that we've seen stolen have Tag installed. Of those, we were able to recover them 99% of the time. It's very effective. Obviously, it doesn't prevent theft, but there is a disincentive.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you.

It would be like a home alarm system. A lot of people just put the stickers in their windows whether they have an alarm or not. I see what you mean by that. Thank you.

I think I'm getting short on time.

I'll go back to the two officers.

Mr. Desmarais, recently Yves Francoeur, the president of the Montreal police officers union, told La Presse that sentences for auto theft are minimal and that everyday police officers in Montreal are catching individuals, who are punished with sentences of just a few months.

Do you agree with Mr. Francoeur that we need stricter sentences for these crimes?

[Yannick Desmarais]

Obviously, as a police force, we will always be open to longer sentences.

In February of this year, we conducted an operation in which we arrested nine people and seized 55 stolen vehicles. The two main people in this case are still being detained. For us, that is great news.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Mr. Schiefke, go ahead, please, for six minutes.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Before I begin asking questions of our witnesses, whom I'm very grateful have joined us today, I just wanted to put onto the record these three paragraphs.

In 2005, a Department of Justice report found evidence that “minimum sentences are not an effective sentencing tool” and don't offer “any increased crime prevention benefits”. In 2007, the parliamentary information and research service found that, “existing research generally does not support the use of a mandatory minimum sentences for the purpose of deterrence”.

Most recently, in 2017, a Statistics Canada report concluded that, “Research in Canada and the United States has found no evidence that [mandatory minimum penalties] have deterred crime; rather, some studies suggest that [mandatory minimum penalties] can result in overly harsh penalties and disparities” that “actually increase recidivism”.

I'm going to be forwarding those three reports to our analysts in the hopes that we can reference those during the report that we will be compiling.

Having said that, I will now ask my questions. I would like to thank our two witnesses for being here in person, as well as Mr. Lamy, who is participating in the meeting by video conference.

Mr. Patenaude, congratulations on the symposium you will be organizing on May 30. I may be there if I receive an invitation.

I am proud to be part of a government that is trying to tackle the problem of vehicle theft by investing in the Canada Border Services Agency, the people who work on the front lines at our borders, and in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to reverse the cuts that were unfortunately made under Prime Minister Harper.

In fact, we know very well that you are the ones doing the work on the ground and serving Canadians. In your case, Mr. Patenaude, you serve Quebeckers, while Mr. Desmarais serves Montrealers.

I'm trying to find an underlying challenge here that brings it all together. There's been this frame that this is a Canadian problem, but we know, looking around the world, that thefts have doubled in the United States. They have gone up significantly in Italy and in Europe as a whole. New Zealand actually has the record for the most thefts per capita. It's skyrocketed around the world.

I'm trying to find out what the problem is that we need to be attacking, aside from finding solutions like investing in the CBSA and in our police forces to catch the criminals and get those cars back.

Something I brought up in previous committees when we had testimony from auto manufacturers was this: Are cars just easier to steal right now? We had testimony from some police officers who said they're catching 18-year-olds and 17-year-olds. My honourable colleague from the Conservatives mentioned that a 15-year-old was caught stealing a vehicle by purchasing something on Amazon for $100.

This is a question I have for both of you, as well as for Mr. Lamy. Is part of the problem that it is just easier right now to steal vehicles?

I'll start with you, Mr. Patenaude.

[Michel Patenaude]

I think that's one of the problems. I don't think there's a silver bullet. I don't think there's one solution. There are many facets to this problem, and that's why the partnerships are so important.

Definitely, it's easier to steal. The technology is definitely a problem. One of the four recommendations by our president of the ADPQ is to legislate the automakers. At the Sûreté du Québec, we have many private and public committees that we sit on. We discuss different problems in terms of what we see and observe, and we share with them to work towards solutions.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Desmarais, do you want to add anything?

[Yannick Desmarais]

To answer part of your question, last year there were 550 arrests. Fifty percent of the individuals arrested were between the ages of 15 and 25.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

That is incredible.