Evidence of meeting #52 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Jay Aspin Conservative Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Would this include the LES, the locally engaged staff?
10:15 a.m.
Inspector General and Chief Audit Executive, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes, it would. It's for all DFAIT personnel covered by our code of values and ethics and the policy against harassment.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Jay Aspin Conservative Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
In a sense, both of you regard leadership as key in this area.
10:15 a.m.
Inspector General and Chief Audit Executive, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Absolutely.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
Inspector General and Chief Audit Executive, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I think the tone at the top is always very important in influencing employee behaviour. The fact that our senior deputy minister, Mr. Rosenberg, has taken the leadership role on values and ethics sends a clear signal. The fact that he has created an oversight body within the department which people can go to directly and that he has delegated authority directly to my director is a positive signal.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Marie-Claude Morin
Thank you very much.
We will now go to the other side of the table.
Ms. Day, you have seven minutes.
November 29th, 2012 / 10:15 a.m.
NDP
Anne-Marie Day NDP Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you all for joining us today. We are really happy to hear from you.
I will have a few very specific questions for you, Ms. Doyon, but first of all, I will turn to the official from the Treasury Board Secretariat.
According to the survey that was conducted, 10,000 employees responded of the 12,211 male and female employees in your department. That is an excellent participation rate. Of those 10,000 employees, 28% of women said that they were subject to harassment, and of those women, 44% stated that they were subject to gender-based discrimination. That means that this struck a chord with 1,232 women of the 10,000 respondents.
We would also like to congratulate you on your awareness initiatives. That's very important in those types of situations.
I am really wondering about something. When the victims, the complainants, file a harassment complaint, the person who is the subject to the complaint is notified, correct? I am talking here about the person complained about.
10:15 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister , Human Resources Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, the person has to be informed.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Anne-Marie Day NDP Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Could that explain why some departments receive so very few complaints or why the complaints do not get very far? Do you think that this might be a factor?
10:15 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister , Human Resources Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It is certainly one of the reasons why the victims always think twice before they lodge an official complaint. The process is rather complex, as I explained. That is why, when people come to see us, we are always going to encourage informal conflict resolution as a first step.
Don't forget that we have two teams on the ground that will take the pulse of the situation. We have our informal conflict resolution team and another team, referred to as the employee assistance team. So we have two teams ready to intervene when difficult situations arise and people might be hesitant to file a formal complaint. We have a team that is going to address formal complaints, of course. However, if the person is not sure and wants to test the waters because they are afraid of all sorts of things, we have two teams to deal with that.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Anne-Marie Day NDP Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
I would still like to dig a little further into this. In Quebec, which is my province, if you want to complain about drug trafficking, for instance, you can dial a number to report people without being scared that you will be attacked in your home or shot the next day.
You do not have a confidential complaint mechanism that makes it possible to check if the complaint is valid or not, even before solving the problem. That does not exist. The person subject to the complaint is automatically informed.
10:20 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister , Human Resources Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It is not done automatically. I can let Charles answer your question, but, generally speaking, we will try to resolve the conflict. If there is an allegation, we will try to dig a little further into the issue. However, you can understand that the person against whom those allegations are made also has rights, and we cannot overlook them.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Anne-Marie Day NDP Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Yes, just like drug dealers have rights and we cannot overlook them.
10:20 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister , Human Resources Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, but it is because...
10:20 a.m.
NDP
10:20 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister , Human Resources Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
...it is not always certain.
10:20 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister , Human Resources Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, but it is not always certain that the complaints are founded. So we have to look at both sides.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Anne-Marie Day NDP Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
The same goes for drugs; the complaints are not always founded either.
10:20 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister , Human Resources Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That's right.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Anne-Marie Day NDP Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
But you can conduct a search.
Mr. Vézina, what do you think?
10:20 a.m.
Charles Vézina Director, Labour Relations and Ethics, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I could perhaps add that, in terms of the respondents, as Ms. Doyon said, we have to follow the policies and respect the rights and obligations set out by the Treasury Board. The person who is accused of harassment, or even sexual harassment—which is the topic of your current study—is presumed innocent until proven guilty. We must give them an opportunity to defend themselves against the allegations, once we determine that those allegations fall under the definition of harassment, as set out in the policy.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Anne-Marie Day NDP Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
I agree with you. However, in this system, the victim may decide not to file a complaint because the person subject to the complaint will be informed.
Do you have any numbers or comments on the people who do not file complaints? Do they say that they are not going to file complaints, because there are unions? We really have to talk about those things.