Status of Women Committee on Nov. 29th, 2012

[Marielle Doyon]

Yes. You will understand that it is difficult for us to say that we have numbers on something that is not official; we do not.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Especially not management.

[Marielle Doyon]

However, what is certain, as I told you, is that we are using a very multidisciplinary approach in our department. We have a number of ways to take the pulse of the organization. That is why we have provided our managers with a type of guide—I talked about it in my remarks, as you might recall—to help them assess the situation. If we have heard rumours that there might be problems, we will often go and see the manager to advise them to make an organizational diagnosis to see if there are problems within the organization. We will not necessarily tell them what we know or who the employee is. Without accusing anyone, we will tell them that there might be some problems within the organization. We will make some suggestions and help them carry them out, without making an accusation, because we don't have anything at that point to accuse someone.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Would you say that the current harassment policy is effective?

[Marielle Doyon]

For our department, based on what we have and what we know, we feel that it is effective. However, we are very open to any suggestions for improvement.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

What initiative would you propose to improve the system?

[Marielle Doyon]

At the moment, the Treasury Board has already proposed a new policy and we have made a commitment to follow it. As I said, our procedures will be fully aligned with this policy by January 2013.

We want to strengthen the message that people can come to see us as soon as there is a small problem, because we are part of the solution. That is what we did with the survey. Four actions have already been suggested through the survey to get the message across to the employees. We have already started the awareness sessions, because we really feel that we should focus on prevention. Of course, when action is taken and allegations are founded, we have to intervene. But we really feel that, since our organization has 12,000 employees, prevention is the answer. That is why we have published the standards of behaviour at the same time as our code of values.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I have one final question for you, Ms. Doyon.

Is it just the person at the top who meets with the victims or is there a tripartite committee or another type of committee?

[Marielle Doyon]

Union representatives are always...

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

They are always present?

[Marielle Doyon]

...invited if the person wishes to invite them. It is up to the individual to decide whether they want to be represented by their union or not.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you.

It is Ms. Ambler's turn now.

You have seven minutes.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you very much to our witnesses for their fascinating testimony today.

I'd like to begin with Madam Langan-Torell. I want to ask a question regarding cultural diversity. You mentioned a couple of times that you strive to address this in the policy and in dealing with sexual harassment in the workplace. You deal with a unique and demanding environment internationally. You're dealing with many cultures, and I understand that you would want to respect that you're dealing with different environments culturally, but I would like to know exactly what that means and how it plays out on the ground in the real world, the piece on respecting cultural diversity.

Would you like me to expand the question?

[Pat Langan-Torell]

I can attempt to answer.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Okay, thank you.

[Pat Langan-Torell]

As you said, our environment is unique. It's absolutely fundamental to the system's working properly that each of our missions works properly, and fundamental to that is having all employees engaged and fully respected for the work they do.

When we send our diplomats out to a post, they have to be cognizant of what the differences are wherever they're going in the world. The world is diverse, so it's not the same training; it's very much tailored, depending on where they're going.

The key to it all, just as it is here in Canada, is respect. What we've tried to create and needed to create is that sense of respecting diversity, of embracing diversity, because it builds strength. It's an actual asset for us. If that becomes the modus operandi, it's easier in a way. It almost sets the stage for it to be applied more universally.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

My concern is more with the fact that you may use different approaches in different places. How can you ensure consistency of results when you do that? When a different approach is required because you're considering cultural sensitivities, how do you ensure that standards are not lowered? How can zero tolerance still be enforced if definitions of sexual harassment are different in different cultural environments?

[Pat Langan-Torell]

They are not. Everything is by the Canadian standard in a Canadian mission. Our definition of sexual harassment is what....

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

It's applied internationally.

[Pat Langan-Torell]

It's applied universally across. When I meant tailoring, I meant not just in terms of harassment issues, but the entire cultural aspect. It's very different, for instance, dealing in China from how you might in Latin America. There are different approaches to work. Something as easy as using a BlackBerry in a meeting is fine in Latin America, but it may be offensive in a Nordic country. It's those kinds of things.

The point is more to underline that it's respecting those differences and adapting to them, but the standard is the Canadian standard across our missions around the world.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

That's very reassuring.

My concern also is with countries where women are not respected as much as they are here in Canada. I'm fairly comfortable in saying there are certain countries where women are still fighting for their rights, whether it's the right for girls to go to school or for women to work wherever they want to work, or to travel wherever they want to travel. There are still these types of barriers for women all over the world.

Do you have to take into account those cultural sensitivities? How do you do that without lowering our Canadian standards?

[Pat Langan-Torell]

I think anybody who is hired to work in a Canadian embassy, high commission or consulate around the world will get the same rights within their employment with the embassy. Beyond that, there's not much we can do, except, of course, to continue to advocate on the foreign policy side.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you very much for clarifying that.

I'd like to address my next question to Public Works on the statistics resulting from the survey.

Madam Day mentioned the statistic of 44% of women who responded positively to the question on sexual discrimination. I went back to the actual results of the survey online. In the past two years, after reading the definition of harassment, when asked if they had been a victim of harassment on the job, 27% of women said they had been. That's 27% of 5,700 respondents. That's a big number in the hundreds. Yet in a three-year period, 34 harassment complaints were filed, only two of which were sexual harassment. There were two sexual harassment complaints in three years. Seventeen were not receivable and 14 were unfounded. I don't understand what not receivable means, and I don't understand how some are unfounded or what that means.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Please give a very quick answer.

[Marielle Doyon]

I'll ask my technical expert to explain it.