Transport Committee on June 6th, 2006

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

For members, that's where there has been a binational process in place for the Windsor-Detroit region, which has 42% of the traffic flow.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Carrier.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

If we accept the principle whereby the approval of the Governor in Council is required to build a bridge, I think that being able to replace it, alter it or twin it without getting such approval is contrary to the very nature of the bill. It wouldn’t make sense to pass this bill if it’s possible to replace in various ways a bridge that has already been accepted. We will therefore oppose the amendment.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Very briefly, Mr. Chair, I'm not really surprised that the Conservatives have to go green again. But just as an example, the very option, Mr. Bell, of the Lions Gate Bridge, which is in your constituency, going ahead and twinning without an environmental assessment would really disturb me. In the best interests of Canadians, I just can't believe that anybody on this committee would want that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

The question is on the amendment.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 6 agreed to)

(On clause 7—Application for approval)

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

On clause 7, we have an amendment. It is amendment NDP-2. Again, I'm advised by counsel that it is inadmissible, as subparagraph (ix) is contrary to the principle of the bill.

(Clause 7 agreed to)

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

Mr. Chair, just to comment, a lot of these amendments are appearing, at least from my perspective, within less than an hour. I'm not sure we're really dealing with them effectively in terms of what we have to look at or what the people in the department have to analyze. We may be throwing out some very good amendments and bringing in some very difficult ones.

The clerk must have had some timeframe for receiving the amendments. Usually it's an appointed hour. What are the guidelines of the committee? Is it a day or so many hours ahead?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

There are no guidelines as we entertain amendments from the floor during the clause-by-clause.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

So as chair, you are getting these from the floor.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

These are not from the floor; they were submitted earlier. The proposed Liberal amendment was submitted from the floor.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

They have been considered then by our counsel and by the department. They've had them before.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Yes, and I did ask at the last meeting, to encourage people if they had them.... I understand that doesn't always happen.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

As long as they have been considered properly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Go ahead.

[Evelyn Marcoux]

We did not consider....This amendment to clause 6 was just handed to me. I don't know whether it was our mistake, but we just got this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Yes, that was tabled from the floor, as I made clear. The NDP amendments arrived earlier this morning, with notification from last week that they were on their way.

[Evelyn Marcoux]

Yes, we've seen those.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

We did get a legal opinion, basically, to find out if they were admissible. Once we've determined that, then the debate becomes open.

Okay, Mr. Hubbard.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

As long as the chair and the committee and the witnesses are satisfied that they have had adequate time to consider these. Mr. Masse's amendments may be very good, but you don't consider them in 10 minutes and decide whether they should be included or excluded from the bill. That is the important part that I wanted to mention.

[Evelyn Marcoux]

We have had time to review the amendments tabled by Mr. Masse.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Yes.

Mr. Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I wish to come back to my original comments and talk about authorization for building a tunnel. It is true that, under clause 7 of the bill, the application is submitted to the Governor in Council and then to the minister, who approves it, but there are still some procedures to be followed. A little earlier, Mr. Jean named a few, including those provided for in the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, etc. I wouldn’t like anyone to get the impression that construction can be authorized without there being any analysis.

I would like you to summarize for me how this will work. When you get an application to build a bridge, tell us what takes place so that people can understand properly.

[Evelyn Marcoux]

When the application comes to the department, it is examined internally to determine which federal government organizations are involved. The authorities that have to examine the application must be determined. Once they have been determined, the scope of the project is examined. Then internal meetings begin at the federal level to examine the project. The applicant is consulted to get clarifications and the analysis process begins; a case analysis is done, and the rationale of the project is determined. Usually this takes several months.

Then the people who will be affected by the project are consulted. Consultations take place with the citizens of the community, the municipality, the province, the region. In the case of Windsor, for example, four levels of government are involved: the provincial government of Ontario, the federal government, the State of Michigan and the Federal State.

As part of these consultations, decisions and objections arise. This is when the decision-making process is established so as to eventually make a recommendation to the minister and the Governor in Council with a view to the acceptance or rejection of the project.

In this process, there are also permits to be obtained under the Navigable Waters Protection Act. The Canada Border Services Agency and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans are also consulted. There is a whole series of consultations that are held inside and outside the system and at all levels of government.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

That includes environmental impact studies.

[Evelyn Marcoux]

Absolutely.