Evidence of meeting #7 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
12:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
As a minister of the Crown, he can always set up that type of commission or review, depending on how you want to call it. But it's true that you don't need that authority for the minister to set up commissions.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Andy Scott Liberal Fredericton, NB
To offer some clarity, having said that, I still go back to the original intent.
Brian, I'm not sure if there is any way to salvage it. The original intent, and you read the press releases for the first time ever, says that the federal government has had the authority to do this, and so on. It occurs to me that it may not be adequate to rely on the environmental assessment process to be the consultation guarantee.
All I'm seeking is consultation; I'm not seeking anything that would trump federal jurisdiction. But I do think that the Government of Canada should be compelled—not just by environmental legislation, but rather out of respect for the municipal governments. Unfortunately, we're here after second reading rather than first, and perhaps we don't have the latitude to do that. I don't think a consultation exercise would be inconsistent with the principles of the bill.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
This is also consistent with legislation being proposed in Michigan. Border authority legislation has been tabled by a number of different representatives with regard to having a public border authority. So it is consistent.
This is the practice in many jurisdictions. They might have a different model that includes compensation and what not. Once again, I say, if there is the interest of the minister to do so, this empowers him to do that, his ability. If people, of their own volition, want to sit in some type of advisory capacity that assists in the facilitation of municipal, provincial, and federal issues related to the border, where there is a void, this allows that. Once again, it does not trump any other existing border authority or commission and it does not provide for a mandate for the minister to have to do this. This is an expressed option that could be provided without remuneration and then not requiring royal assent.
12:05 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
I do not find that stupid at all.
My question is for our Clerk. With the few explanations that Mr. Masse has given you, do you maintain that this amendment is inadmissible? Do you maintain this because this bit of information could entail costs?
12:05 p.m.
Procedural Clerk
If it’s optional or mandatory, it does not have any impact. Furthermore, even though the commissioners may not be paid, there would have to be administrative costs. Bill C-3 is not what gives the minister the power to appoint commissioners, but other acts.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I would just like to comment. First of all, I think the idea has merit. I really believe it does and I think that anybody in the room would say the same thing. I think it needs a lot more work, to be blunt, and maybe, Mr. Masse, we could work on something to put in a different set of regulations that would probably be more appropriate.
The key here is, if we can just take ourselves back from our perspective, we're going to have seven or eight or whatever number of people who are prepared to sit on a board for no fee, regulate the Ambassador Bridge, for instance, which has a $1 billion investment. I think there are a lot of issues that need to be dealt with on this. It's got to be exercised, and I think if the minister wants to do so, even as a test project, then we should leave that open to him. Maybe that's something that we as a committee could forward to him as a recommendation, to look at a test project in one particular case.
But there's a lot of work here and I'd hate to see us come across with something like this, and then a $1 billion investment, for instance, for the folks who own the Ambassador Bridge...and being able to regulate that. There's a lot of other local politics involved, and people make decisions based on politics rather than on common sense, and our government, the Parliament of Canada, I think, will make those decisions for everyone, in the best interests of Canadians.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
With all due respect, I believe it's very important. The intent isn't to have this body have jurisdictional oversight of any particular border.
I would like to give an insight of what's happening in my municipality. The Department of Health is studying, on a daily basis, the respiratory problems of children in my community who attend school. They actually go to school with backpacks on their back that measure the particulate matter that is going in their lungs. There will be a public meeting coming up on that.
I would suggest that you'd find that whatever the minister created in terms of an advisory capacity body for this, there would be people willing to do so without remuneration, given the impacts of what's happening. That's why, once again, it's in the consultation element.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Thank you.
I will revert back, I think, to my initial comment that this new clause will be inadmissible at this time, and we will move to clause 13.
(Clauses 13 and 14 agreed to)
(On clause 15--Regulations)
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
There are three particular amendments dealing with clause 15. The first is to take out paragraph 15(b). The second is to add new clause 15.1, which everyone should have a copy of. The third is to have a consequential amendment to clause 43.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
I understand where the government is heading. I didn’t have the impression that it was tabling something like this.
Ms. Marcoux, my question is simple. The Bridge and Tunnel Operators Association was afraid that this clause might endanger their financial survival. Can you reassure us on that count?
12:10 p.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
The Association’s representatives appeared before us, saying that, after consulting the financial sector, they feared that the fact that the government had some legal authority over tolls might influence their quotation on the market and that their financing would thus cost more.
The amendment tabled today is designed to try and answer these concerns. We haven’t begun the process of changing tolls; we are in reactive mode. If the government realizes that an increase in tolls is causing problems with the fluidity of traffic and trade, it will then give itself the option of intervening.
12:15 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Did you consult them before making this amendment?
12:15 p.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
Yes. They were consulted and they agree on the amendment as tabled. We should recall that they comprise the large majority of operators of international bridges.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
What will be the litmus test in terms of the effects of flow of traffic? How will that be determined?
12:15 p.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
That's a good question.
It's the next step. The way the motion reads, the minister has to satisfy himself that the increase of tolls has created the traffic fluidity problem. It will have to be combined with the cost of the dollar, the volume of trade, and a series of factors that will come into play.
This is not going to be a black and white decision. It will require that the minister consult with the operators and the banking community.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
What about the community, hence my previous argument for a border authority or some consultation? The banking community and operators may not have the same interests as international trucks. They're lined up in front of schools, churches, homes, and businesses that don't have the same ability to influence the minister. My concern would be how those are measured.
12:15 p.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
There will be consultations with the stakeholders as well, before the minister makes the recommendation to the Governor in Council.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
But how do we ensure that the stakeholders include the community? That's my only concern.