Evidence of meeting #8 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Louis Ranger  Deputy Minister, Department of Transport

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair (Mr. Mervin Tweed (Brandon—Souris, CPC)) Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to the eighth meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities

Concerning the orders of the day, we're very pleased to have the minister appearing before us to discuss Canada's infrastructure program, the Building Canada plan.

Joining us today, from the Department of Transport, we have Mr. Louis Ranger, deputy minister; David Cluff, assistant deputy minister; Carol Beal, assistant deputy minister; John Forster, assistant deputy minister; and the star of the show, our Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, Mr. Cannon.

Minister, welcome. It's a pleasure to have you here today. Please proceed.

9:05 a.m.

Pontiac Québec

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon ConservativeMinister of Transport

Thank you very much, Chairman and colleagues.

Mr. Chairman, honourable colleagues, my officials and I appreciate this opportunity to come to this committee to provide information on Building Canada, the Government of Canada's infrastructure plan.

As the members of this committee know, on November 6, the Prime Minister launched the $33 billion Building Canada infrastructure plan. This plan is the most comprehensive of its kind in Canada's history. It provides stable and predictable funding for the longest period of time ever committed to by any federal government over the past 50 years.

This plan is strategic, comprehensive, and responsive to the needs of provinces, territories, and the municipal sector.

Specifically, this plan includes $17.6 billion in base funding for municipalities until 2014, including a full goods and services tax rebate, and $11.8 billion through the gas tax fund. Per year, it provides $25 million, over seven years, in base funding to provide provinces and territories an additional $175 million for each jurisdiction. It provides $8.8 billion for the new Building Canada fund, which will be applied to major projects as well as projects in smaller communities with less than 100,000 in population. As well, $2.1 billion will be provided for the new gateways and border crossings fund to improve the flow of goods between Canada and the world; $1.25 billion for the new national fund for public-private partnerships; and $1 billion for the Asia-Pacific gateway and corridor initiative.

Building Canada will target five national priorities: safe drinking water, efficient sewage treatment, efficient public transit, safe roads, and green energy. For example, this plan will support a growing economy by providing funding for borders and gateways, for short-line rails, broadband, and regional and local airports.

And, Mr. Chairman and honourable colleagues, the plan will support stronger and more cohesive communities by investing in roads and bridges as well as regionally significant sport and cultural infrastructure. These are all areas that matter to provinces, territories and municipalities. Indeed, these are areas that matter to Canadians.

When we first came into office in 2006, we began extensive consultations with provinces, territories and the municipal sector. Our plan reflects what we heard that summer.

We've come a long way since those consultations. We now have a plan and our money is on the table. In order to get that money flowing to municipalities, provinces, and territories, they need to step up to the plate and sign framework agreements with us under the Building Canada plan.

Already we've signed agreements with British Columbia, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick. These agreements lay the foundation for cooperation, for collaborative relationships between Canada and the provinces and territories, so that we can collectively manage public infrastructure priorities and issues. We look forward to signing more agreements with other provinces and territories in the near future.

Now, in the meantime, this government has already moved forward and made clear commitments to particular projects across the country. For example, as part of the framework agreement with British Columbia, we announced a commitment of up to $64.2 million towards additional improvements of the Trans-Canada Highway through the Kicking Horse Pass canyon.

For example, this government, together with the Government of Quebec, announced a commitment of up to $13 million to the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts and another commitment of up to $40 million to the Quartier des spectacles.

Also, together with the Government of Alberta, we announced a commitment of up to $15 million to the Kinnear Centre for Creativity and Innovation at the Banff Centre, as well as up to $40 million for the Centre of Sports Excellence in Calgary.

Also, in March of this year, the Prime Minister announced close to $1 billion for FLOW, a transportation action plan for the greater Toronto area. FLOW involves concrete projects designed to reduce traffic congestion, improve the environment, and increase economic growth in one of the fastest-growing areas in the country.

In addition, in March 2006, the Prime Minister announced our commitments to the clean-up of Saint John Harbour and to highways across the province of New Brunswick. As you can see, we've already started taking action and we are moving forward.

As my honourable colleagues know, the federal government alone cannot address all the issues and needs related to infrastructure in this country. Although, in reading the papers these days, one would think this should be the case.

Our approach in developing Building Canada highlights the extent of federal involvement and confirms our respect for jurisdiction, as well as our commitment to working collaboratively on issues.

That means that we all must—the Government of Canada, provinces, territories, municipal sector, and industry—work together to meet this country's infrastructure challenge. I'm pleased to report that we've already started the work cooperatively and collaboratively.

For example, we're working with the provinces and other key stakeholders to develop strategies to take advantage of Canada's international gateways and trade corridors. While the Asia–Pacific gateway and corridor initiative was first, we now have signed two memorandums of understanding—one with Ontario and one with Quebec—and another one with the Atlantic provinces. These MOUs must provide analytical frameworks for the development of continental and Atlantic gateway strategies that will help us meet the challenges of globalization and support Canada's economic prosperity and global competitiveness.

These collaborative initiatives, in addition to the framework agreements, are clear examples of partnership and collaboration, and I'm sure you will see more of this type of cooperation as time goes by.

But we must also recognize that governments alone cannot meet the demand. We need to consider alternative funding for our infrastructure. Private capital and expertise can help bridge the gaps and make a significant contribution to building infrastructure.

As a result, the use of public-private partnerships—or P3s as they've come to be known—has been expanding rapidly around the world. Canada has made some progress in the use of P3s with the development of some high-profile projects, but more needs to be done. That is why this government is taking a leadership role in developing P3 opportunities through its $1.25 billion Public-Private Partnerships Fund as part of the Building Canada plan.

The government is also working on the creation of a new public-private partnership office that will facilitate a broader use of P3s in infrastructure projects. As well, we are encouraging the development and use of P3s' best practices by requiring that all projects seeking $50 million or more in federal contribution under the Building Canada plan and Building Canada fund, or the gateways and infrastructure crossing fund, consider whether P3s are a possibility and whether they're feasible. I'm currently working with my colleague, the Minister of Finance, on the development of the P3 office and P3 fund. So stay tuned for more news on that front.

The public infrastructure challenges facing Canada are significant. Through the long-term and predictable funding commitment under the Building Canada plan, the federal government has taken steps to address these challenges and ensure that our economy is stronger, our environment is cleaner, our country is prepared for current and future growth, and we can compete internationally.

Our plan is strong and our commitment to public infrastructure and to municipalities is clear. Over half of the $33 billion in funding available is aimed directly at municipalities. That's a minimum of $17.6 billion over seven years, in predictable funding plus a significant support through the targeted funds. In my books, that's a lot of money. This plan is innovative. It provides predictable funding over a longer period than that proposed by any previous federal government.

While there are no easy answers or quick fixes, I think it's clear that broad-based cooperation that is based on a plan is the best way to improve infrastructure and to ensure that citizens live in strong and safe and prosperous communities that we'll aspire to build together.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, colleagues.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I'm just going to advise my colleagues of the committee that because of the time restraints, I am going to keep it pretty tight to the seven minutes.

Mr. Zed.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

Thank you very much, Chair.

Minister, welcome. I'm pleased to see you here in the Christmas spirit.

While we accept and agree that there is $33 billion on the table, my premise would be that a great deal of the money that you claim is new money is in fact regifted money that was allocated, announced, committed to by the 2005 budget of the Paul Martin government.

Having said that, I was wondering, sir, whether or not you and I could spend a few of the minutes allocated to me to go through your budget numbers. Of the $8.8 billion in the Building Canada fund proper, $7.5 billion of it was in fact generated by cutting the funds that were announced in the 2005 Liberal budget. In total, according to the math that I have, there is only $3.6 billion over seven years that could be considered new money: $2.3 billion comes through equal jurisdictional funding; $1.3 billion comes to top up the Building Canada fund. Spread over seven years, this means a little more than $500 million annually that can be considered new money.

So not all of that money, according to the way I've listened to your opening statements and evaluated your budgets, will go directly to cities. How can you justify calling the $33 billion plan a plan? Isn't it just regifting, sir?

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

I thank you for your question.

Let me say at the outset, colleague, that I was rather taken by this famous announcement that the Liberal Party made—I guess it was two weeks ago—in creating an urban caucus. All of a sudden the opposition parties have discovered the importance of cities and communities across the country.

He's right to point out that there are some problems in his comprehension of Paul Martin's budget in 2005. They intended to do something but indeed they did nothing. They intended to put more money into it but indeed they did nothing. There was no budget implementation. This is a farce. It is a complete farce.

Over the course of the campaign my colleague the Minister of Finance and our party committed to help municipalities and committed to continue the transfer of gas tax. When we came into power, we decided that we were going to invest massively in that, and we did invest massively in that. We've also added on additional amounts of money in budget 2007. It brings it to a grand total of $33 billion.

You know, if somebody has to get their math correct, I think it's our colleagues from the opposition. They need to get their math correct.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

Mr. Chair, perhaps I could ask you--

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

If somebody can come and tell me here's the budget implementation bill—

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

Okay, thank you, sir.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

—that Ralph Goodale passed—

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

I'm asking the questions, and Mr. Cannon, I'd really ask you—

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

I'll be open to it, and if I can answer, if I can answer without being interrupted, Mr. Chair--

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Order, please.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

It might be a good opportunity. But I think, you know, when we sit down and we discover all of a sudden that urban Canada has needs--I can remember, Mr. Chair--

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

I have some questions. I'm not looking for a speech.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

I haven't finished.

I can remember, Mr. Chair--

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

Point of order.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Order, please.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

--when that party was fighting with municipalities across the country to be able to put the gas tax forward, and they weren't able to do it.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Mr. Zed, on a point of order.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

I'm hoping to have a constructive dialogue, not an exchange of speeches. The House of Commons might be a great place for that, but we want to get to some statistics.

I have a very detailed opportunity, and I hope the minister will share what I know is the important time of members to deal with that, rather than ragging the puck and using up my time. It's my time to ask important questions on behalf of Canadian cities that disagree with him.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

That is not a point of order, but I would ask that the questions and answers be specific to the topic we're dealing with today.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

Thank you.

I asked the minister a very specific question, so let me perhaps put on the record a series of specific questions.

I want to take this time to work you through the funds, Minister.

On page 167 of your budget in 2007 there is a $37-billion allocation for infrastructure. Is that correct?

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Yes. It's $33 billion plus the additional $4 billion, which is $37 billion. It was left over from--

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Zed Liberal Saint John, NB

Thank you.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Let me finish.