Transport Committee on March 16th, 2010

[Ray Tanguay]

Yes, CTS met our requirements, so we gave them a specification and they had the responsibility to design this whole unit as an entity. It met all the specifications. Where it failed is because of the environmental factors the gas pedal was subjected to. For us, it satisfied our need. As a matter of fact, when we evaluated the CTS design versus Denso, we were highly confident that they had introduced many good features at CTS.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Why weren't those factors taken into consideration?

[Ray Tanguay]

Those factors were very much taken into consideration. What we couldn't find is the impact on the environmental factors that affected some of the plastic components inside the gas pedal. That's why we could not detect it. So when we did the bench test that didn't show. With all the reliability tests it didn't show. Only after some of the vehicles were subjected to the field did we then find a few of these incidents.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Have you ever considered legal action against the company?

[Ray Tanguay]

Basically, like in manufacturing, for example, we analyze all the warranty data, and those defects over here were so small in sample they really didn't show up in our radar chart. It was not so visible. As soon as they found out in the field that there were actually some actual design failures, that's where everything got activated with the design in Japan, and that's where the case was sent to Japan for investigation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, I would like to get back to what you said, Mr. Beatty. You stated that you were not obliged to report complaints, but you were obliged to report defects. It took five months for the complaints to become a defect. I consider that there is a problem with that. The Transport Canada representatives were very surprised that they had not received a notice. You had received five complaints before noting this and before conducting your analyses. You explained to us that you had experts who needed to meet, that you had to send this to Japan and that you tried to find the problem, but during five months, your vehicles were circulating on our roads, endangering their owners and the owners of other vehicles. Indeed, a runaway vehicle does not only cause problems for its owner, it causes other problems because it can hit other vehicles on the road.

Mr. Beatty, we have not yet had time to talk about your recommendations, but you stated that we should increase the budgets of Transport Canada. I agree with you, but you don't say that you should inform Transport Canada of complaints as soon as they are filed with you. I think that that is a serious deficiency. We are entitled to expect that Transport Canada have the staff it needs to do its work, but also that the department be informed of all the complaints you get as soon as you get them. Do you agree with me?

[Yoichi Tomihara]

Just before Stephen speaks, I want to correct some information. The first information we had as a complaint on sticky pedals was at the end of October. The factory announced the recall at the end of January. So this is four months. As you may know, this sticky pedal issue is not a typical perception of runaway vehicles. This is really a sticky pedal issue occurring very occasionally and not occurring suddenly. We have to repeat many times, once you brake, the car is stopped. Just as a matter of perception, I wanted to make this clear.

Thank you.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Tomihara, I would like to take the opportunity to ask you whether you agree with me. Should you have advised Transport Canada as soon as you received complaints concerning overspeeding runaway vehicles because of accelerator problems? Do you think you should have advised Transport Canada immediately and sent the complaint to them, so that they could follow up on it? You want the safety of citizens to be guaranteed. Do you agree with me that the complaints should have been sent immediately to Transport Canada, as soon as the first one came in?

[Yoichi Tomihara]

There are two different words--complaint or defect--in reporting. We have an obligation to analyze and investigate whether or not a complaint really deals with a defect, and once we find there is a defect, we have to immediately report to Transport Canada.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Tomihara, you recommend that Transport Canada's budgets be increased. I agree with you, they don't have enough staff. However, you don't recommend that it be obligatory that all companies and manufacturers advise Transport Canada as soon as they receive complaints. For safety's sake, it would be important that an independent body like Transport Canada compile all of the complaints as soon as they are received, even at Toyota.

Currently, they only compile the ones they receive. I am asking you whether you agree with me. If I understand you correctly, this is going to continue, you will receive complaints, and you will do analyses, and hire other researchers. Your company is so big that it takes five months before you recognize that there is a defect. That is pretty complicated, Mr. Tomihara. We just want our citizens to be safe, quite simply. Do you agree with me? Should you not advise Transport Canada of the complaints as soon as you receive them?

[Yoichi Tomihara]

May I repeat that the complaints contains a lot of issues, including misuse or misapplication and some vehicular defects over the industry. So I really recommend that complaints have to be first clearly investigated and analyzed by each manufacturer. Then after we report back. Of course, it's up to the committee's discretion itself.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Merci, Monsieur Laframboise.

Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Inaba, I used to install brake pedals and gas pedals on the assembly line. I'm one of those people who have concerns that perhaps it may not be a physical component problem. It could be the software or it could be the chip component. I know that idea is out there for debate too, with edmunds.com offering a million dollars for a solution. It could be any of those different things. Also, you have the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigating this right now.

Are the chip and the software that are in the Canadian vehicles the same ones that are in the vehicles in the United States?

[Yoshi Inaba]

Absolutely.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay, so we're not investigating over here. Ironically, Transport Canada said they were unaware of this at their hearings here, so I guess if there is going to be a problem with that component and a solution or remedy comes forth, we will have to rely on the United States for that, in our current scenario.

[Yoshi Inaba]

Well, I must say that it is rather much broader than the U.S. or Canada. I really think the component in principle is the same. We have sold 40 million vehicles so far worldwide with this ETCS system, and we haven't found or been given any information about something going wrong with that.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I have two other quick questions before we go to Mr. Bevington. I'd just like yes or no answers.

Are we going to get an automotive centre for quality in Canada similar to the one in the United States? Yes or no.

Also, I wrote Mr. Tomihara asking that this committee be provided with information with regard to the transport committee. Are we going to get that information, yes or no? I don't want to debate it. I'd just like to know whether or not we're getting those things.

Thank you.

[Stephen Beatty]

There are two things. We'll share on a North American basis all of the initiatives that are outlined by Mr. Toyoda. With respect to the tabling of documents, I'm not in a position to table TMS documents, but that material was publicly tabled in the United States, so--

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, I asked specifically if we had any Canadian equivalent, which you did not answer in the letter. I asked for the Canadian equivalent of those documents.

[Stephen Beatty]

I have no idea what those documents are, so I can't respond. We would generally be willing to provide you with whatever material is relevant to the work of the committee. I'm not sure what you're looking for.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

We're at a disadvantage. The U.S. has other information that's not being provided here.

At any rate, I'll pass the floor to Mr. Bevington. Thank you.

In regard to the centre, I need to know that as well.

[Ray Tanguay]

The quality centre will be regional.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

So, yes, Canada will get one?

[Ray Tanguay]

No. It will be regional. TTC in Michigan will probably be the main centre.