Transport Committee on March 27th, 2014

[Jamal Hematian]

I don't know if they—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Okay.

You talked about the difficulty of achieving this transition to new rolling stock, new cars, because of our integrated freight and transport system with the United States. Correct?

[Jamal Hematian]

That's correct.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That's a hurdle we have to overcome. It's something we have to work on in pincer movement together, you're suggesting.

[Jamal Hematian]

I'm saying it's not a problem we have to consider; whatever we have is interchangeable between the U.S. and Canada.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Let's be practical. When the TSB issued its unprecedented release in partnership with the American NTSB, never been done before, effectively calling for the urgent transition to new cars, presumably the American regulators are seized with this, are as concerned with this as we are. I'm sure Lac-Mégantic transcended our border, and all kinds of other incidents, as our colleague from the union mentioned, have led people to focus their minds on this. But is there anything practical stopping Canada now from saying that we're going to move to a higher standard of car for operations in Canada? After all, we're still a sovereign state.

[Jamal Hematian]

I understand, I know that.

I'll tell you a story. It's a very good story.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

As long as it's short.

[Jamal Hematian]

Sure. I want to make it a little interesting, not too technical.

When I landed in Canada in 1997, I landed in Montreal. When driving I saw I had to stop at right-hand turns. When I moved to Ontario, the same car, same country, but you can turn right. So with the railcar system, you can have the same car, but you can put in different operational rules. There is nothing wrong with that. You can say in Canada your maximum speed on the tracks—we classify tracks from one, two, three, four, five six, seven—a passenger car is six, and freight cars are five—so Canada can say for class 5 maximum speed in this area is 40 miles per hour. There is nothing wrong with that. But what I said was about the design of the car. I don't think we can have two different car designs. That was my point.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

But your understanding as a manufacturer, what you're basically saying is, whatever the regulators decide, tell us and we will commence to adjust. We will adjust, we will adapt, we will manufacture according to what the standards are. That's not difficult. What I'm trying to get here is nothing would preclude your company from moving immediately to try to adjust to a new standard brought in by a Conservative government. Your company would say that they hear you, they're moving forward.

[Jamal Hematian]

We are doing it right now. Our tank cars are to the latest regulations.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I understand that, but if the regulations were increased, if they were changed, if they were amended, if they were improved, if they followed the TSB and the NTSB, your company would say “absolutely”.

[Jamal Hematian]

There is no issue with that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

There is no issue with that, so what's the delay?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. McGuinty, he can answer the question this time.

[Jamal Hematian]

What's the delay in what sense? For NSC delaying it?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

What's the delay in the government from your perspective? What's the delay in adjusting to the TSB and the NTSB requirements?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. McGuinty, he can't answer something about the government. You've been around here longer than I have so I'm surprised you would ask a question like that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I think we should have a conversation offline, Mr. Miller, later on. We'll have a chat about what we can and can't ask here. I don't think we should be doing this publicly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Well, come on. You know what you asked and they can't answer that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That's the third time in two meetings, sir, that you've interrupted my questioning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Well, you're out of time anyway.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That I appreciate, Chair.

In terms of the substance, no....

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

A question of phase-out depends on what we're phasing to. It seems obvious.

I hear “phase-out“ but it's not clear from the opposition whether they want to phase out the old DOT-111s in favour of the new DOT-111 standards. Or whether, as the TSB has suggested, maybe there is a new standard. If there is a delay, the question is what is the new standard?

I think what we're hearing, Mr. Hematian, is that even from a design perspective, a new standard of car would be a complex engineering question in and of itself, let alone a decision of.... A lot of different players who own these cars would have to replace those cars on two sides of the border if you're actually going to have a comprehensive solution to it. It's not as simple as simply saying, “let's just phase out”.

What are we phasing to?