Evidence of meeting #13 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was black.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
That caseworker would be the best person to do that.
Can you explain to me your experience with a veterans service agent? What is their role?
12:10 p.m.
National President, Veterans Canada
I haven't had a veterans service agent so far, but I've been told by my 8,000 members that many of them have lost their case management. Even though they're still on a treatment plan, they've lost their case managers and have to go through the veterans service agents. As I mentioned in my opening statement, many of the members said that the veterans service agents don't have the experience to work with case management.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
Mr. Thibault, do you have any experience with case managers versus the veterans service agents and how those groups work together?
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
All right. Very good. That's okay. We'll have other witnesses, so we can keep going down that road. Thank you.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
You also mentioned that a lot of the veterans didn't know about the OSI services. I guess that goes back to that communication during the transition period. Would you agree?
12:10 p.m.
National President, Veterans Canada
It certainly does. As I stated, several of my members have said they were released to their family doctors from the OSI clinics and then relapsed. Once you do that, you have to find your own way. I don't know what the reasoning is or why the OSIs would release anyone from their care, other than for having statistics to show they're being successful.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
We had a conversation with previous witnesses about what the outcomes are and what they consider outcomes, so we'll look into that a bit more too. Thank you. That's great.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and gentlemen, thank you for your service and for being with us here today.
Ms. Lockhart must have been looking at my notes or hearing the same things I was hearing, because she asked basically the same questions I wanted to ask. I'm going to try and ask them, but maybe in a different way. I'll rephrase them a bit.
A lot of what we've heard throughout the last couple of weeks has dealt with caseworkers and paperwork and whether the caseworkers are educated and trained. I'm glad to hear today from you, Mr. Thibeau, that they should be trained and should understand aboriginal awareness and be aware of that part. I think that's an important matter.
I understand, and I'm led to believe, Mr. Thibeau and Mr. Leonardo, that you attended the veteran stakeholders' meeting this past week in Ottawa. None of us was there, and I'm wondering whether you might be able to enlighten us a bit on whether the minister or deputy minister indicated whether there would be any training or further instances of training, or set any dates for opening the offices. Can you comment on any of that?
12:15 p.m.
President, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones
They did talk about the opening of the offices, and they did mention about going out face to face. That was when he talked about the northern communities. I think face to face is probably the most important element of any organization, especially when you're dealing with veterans. We know that probably about 75% of the veterans don't necessarily need to have that much interaction, but they still should have the opportunity. For the other 25%, that's probably your main group, and they should be the priority.
Having said that, I don't recall anything coming out regarding that.
12:15 p.m.
National President, Veterans Canada
Let's talk about the person with the mental disability PTSD and the other stress injuries that go along with that.
If you're only having a phone conversation with a veterans service worker or a case manager, the fact is they don't see your living conditions if they don't come out to where you are. You're talking about a person with mental disabilities, and you're trusting that he's living in a good clean safe environment. You don't know if he's living in his basement. You don't know his situation if you're not face to face with him. The majority of the injuries today are PTSD. I believe a face-to-face meeting is a necessity to make sure the veteran is getting the care he needs.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Mr. Thibeau, you also mentioned dealing with the rural areas. I come from Saskatchewan, and I do have a lot of...I'll use the term “warriors”, and families who are out there trying to reconnect with mother earth, which I think is a wonderful thing.
One of the things I've talked a lot about in the last little while is the same concept with our soldiers as they leave the forces and are decommissioned. It's a similar concept, I think, to what you talk about with your warriors and the aboriginals reconnecting with mother earth. It's the same thing with our soldiers in reconnecting them to civilian life.
In Saskatchewan, we don't have an OSI clinic. Have you had any discussions with any of your warriors as to where they might be able to deal with issues of PTSD and how closely they can access that?
12:15 p.m.
President, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones
I'm surprised to hear that there was no OSI clinic in Saskatchewan, based on the number of aboriginals who actually enrol in Saskatchewan. I would take it that some of these remote communities may be handling their PTSD through their cultural ceremonial aspects. I know there's one in Manitoba that has a PTSD ceremonial or cultural program, not necessarily for military people, for three or four days. That could be the case in Saskatchewan.
I'm certainly going to ask my director in Saskatchewan and find out if he has statistics or information regarding.... I haven't heard anybody ask for that type of thing. I was just surprised that OSISS wasn't there in Saskatchewan.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
We'd appreciate it if you could forward to that to us.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you. I have a lot I would like to ask, but I'll give you an opportunity to comment on the long-term care piece, because the loss of beds is of profound concern to me.
Mr. Thibeau.
12:15 p.m.
President, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones
I've listened to Mr. Black. When I joined the army, the Colonel Belcher Hospital in Calgary was alive and well and full of veterans. Of course, that's gone by the wayside now. You brought up a good point when you said you are concerned about today's veterans—the modern-day veterans, if you will. There may not be the requirement today for those beds, but there certainly will be a requirement. That's something that I think Veterans Affairs and the federal government have to keep in the back of their mind.
Although the closures are certainly saving a lot of money, I'm not sure that's the right approach. I think there's going to be an influx or at some point in time there's going to be a surprise, and veterans will be looking for that support.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
It's very specialized care and it has to do with the camaraderie and the understanding of experience. I think you're absolutely right, and I worry very much about that future.
Mr. Leonardo, you talked about the treatment authorization centres and the problems that you had just yesterday with regard to needing medication. Earlier you referenced the Bureau of Pensions Advocates. I wonder if you could expand on that.
12:20 p.m.
National President, Veterans Canada
Prior to 1996, veterans could go to the Bureau of Pensions Advocates to make an initial claim, and employees there would help them fill out their applications and send their applications in. After 1996, that stopped. The Bureau of Pensions Advocates was not a separate arm. It became part of Veteran Affairs Canada itself. I think it should be able to assist those who need help with their initial claims as well as in appealing their claims.
I'd like to also make a point on your last questions having to do with long-term care. The Colonel Belcher in Calgary is still going strong, even though the numbers are growing. There's a brand new Colonel Belcher as of 10 years ago, built by the Alberta government and run by Carewest, but I'd like to remind everybody that modern veterans are not entitled to go to those facilities. The responsibility has been downloaded onto each province. They will probably pay the costs for some modern veterans to go to a long-term facility, but only for those who are designated SDA and designated severely TPI, totally and permanently incapacitated.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Thank you.
That wraps up our round of questioning.
I have just one question to clarify something. It goes to Mr. Leonardo, and maybe the other two members could give a yes-or-no answer.
When you talked about not receiving your prescription last night, was that a one-off occurrence? Does this happen quite a bit, and have you also noticed this with other veterans?