Bill C-28 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act

This enactment amends the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act, in respect of Cree bands and Category IA land,
(a) to provide the Cree Regional Authority with additional responsibilities and powers, including by-law making powers; and
(b) to recognize the Crees of Oujé-Bougoumou as a separate band and a local government under that Act.

Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

moved that the bill be read the third time and passed.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I believe we are all on the same page. It is a pleasure to speak to the third reading of Bill C-28. Certainly, it is no mystery by now why I support this bill, nor why the hon. members of the House have united to ensure that this bill passes.

Bill C-28 begins a new chapter in one of the country's great aboriginal success stories: the story of the Cree of Eeyou Istchee. For hundreds of years, the Cree peoples of the eastern James Bay and southern Hudson Bay region of northern Quebec have effectively protected their environment, managed their natural resources, and preserved the cultural legacy of their communities. For decades, the Cree of Eeyou Istchee have used the provisions in the James Bay and Northern Quebec agreement to start their own airline, establish a thriving construction company, and open many flourishing small businesses.

Most recently, the Cree of Eeyou Istchee have engaged in ongoing consultations with Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, embraced genuine partnership with the Government of Canada, and co-signed the 2008 new relationship agreement document. These are the achievements I would like to focus on today.

For those not familiar with the new relationship agreement, allow me to explain a few important facts about this document. The new relationship agreement is a landmark agreement between the Government of Canada and the Cree of Eeyou Istchee. It is a historic consensus that gets at the heart of what it takes to build strong communities. It resolves past grievances. It fosters social and economic development. It empowers people to determine their own destinies.

More specifically, the new relationship agreement ends litigation initiated by the Cree of Eeyou Istchee against the federal government, devolves specific federal responsibilities to the nine Cree communities of the eastern James Bay and southern Hudson Bay region, and provides for amendments to the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act to enable the Cree regional authority to enact bylaws that will apply throughout the region.

Significantly, the new relationship agreement does all of this with the full support of the Cree of Eeyou Istchee. Voicing their opinions in referendum, more than 90% of the beneficiaries who voted in the nine affected communities endorsed the agreement. They voted to end years of contention and uncertainty, and to embrace a sincere partnership with the Government of Canada.

Bill C-28 fulfills two key aspects of the agreement. First, it will equip the Cree regional authority with additional responsibilities and powers, including bylaw-making powers, so that the Cree regional authority will be better able to carry out certain specified responsibilities that were assumed from the federal government under the James Bay and Northern Quebec agreement.

Bill C-28 also sets the stage for the negotiation of a Cree nation governance agreement that will establish a new Cree nation government. As the Cree of Eeyou Istchee noted in their presentation to the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, this bill constitutes “another step in the evolution of Cree governance structures and responsibilities”.

Second, it will incorporate the Cree of Oujé-Bougoumou as the ninth Cree band. This is a fulfillment of the 1992 Ouje-Bougoumou/Canada Agreement, under which the Government of Canada agreed to recognize the Cree of Oujé-Bougoumou as the ninth Cree band and to contribute financially toward the creation of a new village at Lake Opemiska.

In the words of Mr. Richard Saunders, who represented the Cree-Naskapi Commission before the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, this is both “a symbolic and housekeeping amendment”. It is one that acknowledges the local government and administration of a distinct people not named in the James Bay and Northern Quebec agreement.

In short, Bill C-28 fulfills two key aspects of the new relationship agreement that would enable all of us, the Cree of Eeyou Istchee and the Government of Canada, to place our focus squarely on the future. It is a bill that dwells not on recriminations of the past but on opportunities in the present and future. It is a bill that honours the spirit of partnership and collaboration inherent in the new relationship agreement.

Throughout the bill's development, from the initial outline to the version before us today, the Cree of Eeyou Istchee have been extensively consulted. They have helped ensure the bill meets the real needs of the Cree communities of northern Quebec. They have advised the government on necessary changes and they have contributed at key stages of the legislative process.

Due in no small part to the Cree's involvement, members of the House now have the opportunity to truly serve the Cree people who live in the James Bay and southern Hudson Bay region to give them the authority to: enforce strict water quality standards; to maintain meticulous accounting practices and guarantee that people in positions of power are held accountable for their use of community funds; and to ensure more responsive police and firefighting services and make certain that all residents in crises get the emergency help they need.

This is an opportunity to encourage continued dialogue between the Government of Canada and the Cree of Eeyou Istchee and to ensure that our nation's laws benefit the people most affected by them.

This is our time to seize these opportunities. Let us help honour the commitments the Government of Canada made to the Cree people of northern Quebec in the new relationship agreement.

We are ready to heed the words of Richard Saunders, Philip Awashish and Robert Kanatewat who travelled to Ottawa on behalf of the Cree of Eeyou Istchee to outline their support for the bill when they appeared before the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development just a short time ago.

Passage of the bill would enable the Cree of Eeyou Istchee to pave the way to a brighter and more prosperous future for their communities.

As we heard earlier in the House and again at committee, all parties in the House support the bill. There is no one who does not wish to establish a new relationship based on trust, fairness and mutual respect. There is no one who does not wish to welcome the nine Cree communities in northern Quebec into the political, social and economic conversations that will shape the future of Canada.

I know that is why my colleagues will welcome the opportunity, as I do, to vote in favour of this important legislation, to vote in favour of helping thousands of proud, resourceful, ambitious people in nine remote communities in northern Quebec to embark on a prosperous future and on a path to a new tomorrow for us all.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Liberal Party of Canada, I am glad to stand in the House and support Bill C-28, and act to amend the Cree-Naskapi Act of 1984.

The numerous benefits of this legislation have already been read into the record. The bill is now at third reading and hopefully it will get royal assent in the not too distant future, after some 33 years of intense negotiation and, at many times, litigation, and not always an amicable relationship between the Crown, whether provincial or federal, and the aboriginal people involved.

A lot of work has been undertaken over those 33 years since 1975 when we had the James Bay and northern Quebec agreement, the northeastern Quebec agreement in 1979 and then the Cree-Naskapi Act in 1984, which is what the bill we are talking about today would amend.

Since 1984, the Cree people have been in a tangle with the federal government about the true implementation of the Cree-Naskapi Act of 1984. They have tried diligently to ensure that land claims were implemented, not only in terms of the details of that particular land claim but in terms of the spirit and intent of it. A new relationship agreement was signed in 2008, which is the basis of what we are dealing with here today.

The agreement itself was spoken of in endearing terms by Bill Namagoose at committee, who was one of the chief negotiators of that particular deal. We also heard from the minister and the department about how the relationship between the Department of Justice, the federal Crown and the Crees of Eeyou Istchee was much improved.

One of the lawyers at the time said that he had been practising for 43 years and that it was the first time in those 43 years that he could actually commend the people from the Department of Justice for the way they had behaved, for their manners and for their professionalism, and he hoped that particular relationship would continue into the future.

I want to read into the record a couple of quotes about land claims and speak in terms of going forward.

The Supreme Court of Canada, in Haida Nation v. British Columbia, Minister of Forests, wrote:

The historical roots of the principle of the honour of the Crown suggest that it must be understood generously in order to reflect the underlying realities from which it stems. In all its dealings with Aboriginal peoples, from the assertion of sovereignty to the resolution of claims and the implementation of treaties, the Crown must act honourably. Nothing less is required if we are to achieve “the reconciliation of the pre-existence of Aboriginal societies with the sovereignty of the Crown.

On the situation of human rights and fundamental freedoms, the report on Canada in 2004 around the settling of comprehensive land claims, the United Nations special rapporteur said:

The settling of comprehensive land claims and self-government agreements (such as those of Nunavut or James Bay) are important milestones in the solution of outstanding human rights concerns of Aboriginal people. They do not, in themselves, resolve many of the human rights grievances afflicting Aboriginal communities and do require more political will regarding implementation, responsive institutional mechanisms, effective dispute resolution mechanisms, and stricter monitoring procedures at all levels.

What is being said here is that the Crown must act honourably when signing treaties and must implement not only the letter of the treaties but the spirit and intent of them.

Some of the most formidable work being done today around the implementation of land claims is coming from the Land Claims Agreements Coalition, which is made up of basically all of the modern treaty-holders from Labrador to B.C. and from Yukon to Nunavut.

Members of this coalition underlined four undertakings that the Government of Canada should put in place regarding treaty implementation. They are calling upon the Government of Canada to adopt a new policy on the full implementation of modern treaties between aboriginal peoples and the Crown. They also ask that the Government of Canada draft and promptly introduce legislation to establish a land claims agreements implementation commission, that the Government of Canada establish a cabinet committee on aboriginal affairs to oversee and coordinate the full involvement of federal agencies and ongoing treaty implementation activities, and that the periodic negotiation of implementation funding for Canada's obligations under modern land claims agreements be led by a chief federal negotiator appointed jointly by the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the Land Claims Agreement Coalition.

Those are very practical solutions and they arise out of the context of the James Bay and northern Quebec agreement of 1975. They arise out of the historical context that has led, after 33 years, to the Cree-Naskapi 1984 amendments that we are talking about today. The coalition members cite this as movement in the right direction, which we in our party agree with as well. they also understand that across the country there are outstanding grievances within first nations, Inuit and some Métis communities around the implementation of land claims. They call for this way forward.

I will not prolong the debate on third reading except to say that my party supports this because it is a way forward. We also support it because it was a collaborative approach. We cannot say that strongly enough. It was a collaborative approach between the Government of Canada and aboriginal peoples who sat at the table. They will not call it co-drafting because they say that legally we cannot co-draft but that is a purview of the federal government itself. In essence, they basically dotted the i's and crossed the t's and said that this was a nice way to go forward and the government says that it is its legislation.

I will say this in another context because we have another bill before the House called Bill C-8, which was not co-drafted, was not done in co-operation or consultation with first nations people and is not receiving the kind of unanimity within the House that we see on Bill C-28. The difference in approach has an impact on the content and the agreement that various parties can reach.

We are supporting Bill C-28 because of the process and the content. I wish the Cree of Eeyou Istchee good luck with this. We wish them the best and the Liberal Party will certainly be a partner in the future as this agreement and other agreements are implemented under the new relationship.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise here today at third reading of this bill, one that is extremely important for the Cree community and other closely related communities, particularly, the Naskapi. We are talking about a region in Quebec. The last time I addressed the House concerning this bill, I paid a tribute, and I would like to do so again.

I also emphasized the geographic importance of the James Bay Cree. There are nine Cree communities. For those watching us, we are talking about the nine communities near James Bay, and the people who have always lived in those communities. The Government of Quebec is currently beginning, or rather it began a few years ago, major works projects there to build hydroelectric dams.

I would therefore like to pay tribute to Matthew Mukash, Grand Chief and President of the Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee), that is, the Cree government. He worked very hard to put this very lengthy agreement in place. This Bill C-28 is minor compared to the agreement that was reached, one that will have extremely important repercussions for the Cree community and those who live in the areas around those communities.

Matthew Mukash was and still is the grand chief; Ashley Iserhoff is the deputy grand chief and vice-chairman; Roderick Pachano is the authorized representative of the Cree Nation of Chisasibi; Losty Mamianskum is the authorized representative of the Whapmagoostui First Nation; Rodney Mark is the representative of the Cree Nation of Wemindji; Lloyd Mayappo is from the Eastmain Band; Steve Diamond is the authorized representative of the Crees of the Waskaganish First Nation; Josie Jimiken is from the Cree Nation of Nemaska; John Kitchen is from the Waswanipi Band; John Longchap is from the Cree Nation of Mistissini; Louise Wapachee is from the Oujé-Bougoumou Eenuch Association.

These people represent all of the communities that have signed this extremely important agreement, which, while not necessarily making the Crees independent in the fullest sense of the word, will enable them to benefit from a degree of self-determination and distance from the federal government with respect to the management of their everyday affairs. Under this agreement, they will be able to ensure that their communities receive appropriate services, such as health and sanitation services. They will decide where to build their communities' hospitals. We know that many of these communities, which are located on the shores of James Bay, ranging almost as far as the Inuit communities of Quebec's far north, are isolated from one another and often have trouble working together.

This bill, this agreement, will enable them to work together. The Cree Regional Authority will have the opportunity to develop programs and ensure that it has everything it needs to achieve the independence of Cree first nations. Under this agreement, they will be responsible for protecting the environment and preventing pollution. We know what is going on with the Cree nation and the development of hydroelectric dams on James Bay. Over the next few years, mining exploration and exploitation will increase dramatically. Companies are looking northward more than ever before for mining exploration and exploitation opportunities. The Cree people will have to implement policies to protect their environment. That is what they wanted, that is what they asked for in committee, and that is what they will get with this bill, which will be passed just minutes from now.

In terms of administration, they will also be responsible for justice. That is extremely important. The administration of justice has always posed a problem in the north. For many years, the itinerant court has travelled to Cree communities to dispense justice. There were no court houses and often community centres were used.

Under this agreement, moneys will be allocated. When we refer to an agreement, we are also referring to the moneys that will be allocated and transferred to the Cree for the administration of justice, social development, and above all, economic development. One of the difficulties is that the Cree are isolated. There is little work. The birth rate is 3.5% per year, a veritable population explosion. Therefore appropriate measures are needed, including the creation of towns and the construction of houses suitable for the conditions of the community.

Indian and Northern Affairs Canada has often sent houses that developed mould or were destroyed because they did not provide what the Cree needed to survive in a difficult environment, one that all too often is a hostile environment.

It has been noted that this agreement will benefit the Cree. After royal assent has been given, the amount of $100 million will be paid to the Cree. The $100 million has already been committed. That is why we, the Bloc Québécois, pushed for and will support this very important bill. Moneys have been committed, work has begun, and very important infrastructure—community centres, CLSCs and hospitals—must be built. The time to do that is now—May, June, July, August and September. We have five months to do some very important work. The amounts to be disbursed will pay for work that has already started and is very important to the community.

This bill will also—I realize that this is somewhat complex for those listening—settle the matter of land categories for which the communities had the authority to establish bylaws, municipal regulations to set limits as to time of day and year for hunting, trapping and fishing.

There are three categories of land: categories I, II and lll. From now on, category III will cover 911,000 square kilometres where communities will participate in the administration and development of the land. It will be very important for the Cree to start right now on working to identify controlled harvesting zones. There might also be—and we hope there will be—a little more respect for the flora and fauna than at present. That is our hope for these category III lands.

The act also makes modifications to category IA lands, where federal laws and regulations apply.

The Cree will therefore be the ones responsible for administration of these lands and they will ensure that they come under their jurisdiction and that the bylaws they enact to protect the flora and fauna can be respected.

Clause 9 of the bill sets out new provisions which will enable the Cree Regional Authority to enact bylaws and resolutions within the territorial limits of category IA and III lands. This is extremely complex, I know, but this is such an important bill for the nine Cree communities which will at last be able to take over their space.

I sense, Mr. Speaker, that you are wanting to interrupt me for question period or something else but I have so much still to say that I will, unfortunately for you, be back after question period.

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue. He will have nine minutes remaining when debate on this bill resumes.

We proceed now with statements by members. The hon. member for Niagara West—Glanbrook.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act, be read the third time and passed.

[The Speaker, Peter Milliken]

Before question period, the hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue was speaking. I believe he has another eight minutes to make his remarks.

The hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a relief when calm returns to this place. It is too bad that people sometimes get carried away in question period.

Now, back to the work at hand, which I find much more interesting than question period. I refer to Bill C-28 concerning Cree and native communities in northern Quebec.

As I have eight minutes left, and now one less, I would like to point out that the bill is in negotiation. The agreement has been in negotiation since 1984. Following the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement, it took nine years for discussions to begin to reach the agreement signed by representatives of the nine Cree communities and the Government of Canada.

The agreement will give greater autonomy to the Cree and the Naskapi, in fact, more to the Cree than to the Naskapi because there is still room for an agreement with the Naskapi. The lands of these two communities overlap and so an agreement with the Naskapi is required as well.

The land mentioned in the agreement overlaps part of the land of the Inuit in Quebec, but, overall, the James Bay Cree should end up with full autonomy with regard to the Canadian government through the agreement. Accordingly, the Cree Regional Authority will be able to take over the federal government's responsibilities under the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement.

It was in fact essential for the Cree to come to an agreement with the federal government and with the Quebec government pursuant to the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement. It appears that these agreements are now complete and finalized. We can very soon allow the Cree to move to full autonomy over their ancestral land. This is the intent of Bill C-28.

We will support this bill because we consider it important to support autonomy and the native peoples. The Bloc has always recognized that native peoples are distinct and have a right to their culture, language, customs and traditions and to choose the way their identity will be developed. That is what is happening with this bill.

I do not have a lot of time left, but I want to emphasize before the House that when the government can and wants to, it is possible to reach agreements with native peoples. I believe that this agreement with the Cree paves the way for further agreements. What we would most like to see are further agreements with the Innu, Algonquin, Attikamek and Naskapi so that aboriginal communities not only have rights and responsibilities but are also allowed to develop in accordance with their ancestral customs on their ancestral lands. That is what this bill will achieve.

We should remember that there was a Cree-Naskapi Commission, which made a number of recommendations.

There were 20 of them, and I would like to highlight a few: full and explicit recognition of the inherent right of Eeyou self-government—that is what this bill provides; recognition of the existence and application of Eeyou traditional law, customs and practices in the exercise and practice of Eeyou self-government; and elimination of provisions that conflict with Eeyou traditional law, customs and practices.

All that will be achieved, therefore, on their lands. I read only three of the 20 recommendations. The important thing is that henceforth they will be self-governing and will have jurisdiction over their ancestral lands, which will enable the Cree to develop. The Eeyou community will also be able to develop in accordance with its customs.

We think, therefore, that this is an excellent bill. When the government wants to, it can sit down at the table. It should do the same in regard to Bill C-8 on matrimonial rights in aboriginal communities. This bill has been severely criticized by all feminist organizations and aboriginal associations and communities. We think the government should go back to the drawing board and introduce a new Bill C-8.

We hope, in conclusion, that Bill C-28 passes quickly so that Cree community self-government can be established. We hope this government develops in accordance with the ancestral customs of the Cree. I can only hope one more thing: that this entente cordiale between the Cree and the federal government proves sustainable and leads to the development of these communities, which are located in a part of the country where life is not easy.

I wish them, therefore, the best of luck. I hope that the wishes and desires of the Cree communities which signed the agreement leading to Bill C-28 will all be realized. It is the Bloc’s greatest hope that the Cree communities joined together in the Grand Council of the Crees achieve their independence, live finally in accordance with their traditional customs on their own lands, develop themselves and administer what is lawfully theirs, that is to say, their ancestral territory.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I too am rising in support of Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act. New Democrats very strongly support this important legislation.

I want to provide a bit of background because the amendment has been in the works for a number of years. There is a long history around the Cree Naskapi in Quebec. The James Bay and Northern Québec Agreement was signed in 1975 and was Canada's first modern land claims settlement. However, this settlement was an outstanding Cree and Inuit claim to aboriginal rights and titles dating back to the 1800s. The agreement should have been signed a century or more before, but it took from some time in the 1800s until 1975 to have an agreement put in place.

I am from British Columbia and although some land claims agreements have been signed, many nations there are still without those kinds of agreements. Something has been put in place in British Columbia called the common table and roughly 60 nations have signed on to the unity protocol. If we can have the kind of movement on treaties and land claims that we have seen around the amendments to the Cree-Naskapi Act, that would be a welcome opportunity in B.C.

As to the history around this agreement, in 1975, when the province of Quebec announced its intention to develop the hydroelectric potential in the James Bay region, the commitment to recognize Cree and Inuit rights had not yet been fulfilled by the federal and provincial governments. Court injunctions were put in place in order to push back on the fact that the Cree and Inuit had not been consulted. Ultimately, it culminated in the James Bay and Northern Québec Agreement, but that agreement was negotiated without any implementation plan. It continued for many more years.

I want to read from the testimony that was provided to the committee by the Grand Council of the Crees. In its testimony it highlighted some of the events that took place. It said:

The Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act was passed by Parliament in 1984 after several years of discussion between the parties and consultations with the Cree communities and the Naskapi Band. With great difficulty, a new funding regime was eventually put in place by Canada that was compatible with the assumption by the Cree communities of new responsibilities in respect to the planning priorities for their development and administration.

After adoption of the act, and to the present day, the Grand Council of the Crees of Quebec/Cree Regional Authority has acted as a forum for the concerted implementation of the act. It also continues to be the guarantor and protector of Cree rights. While the act opened the door for the assumption by the Cree communities of certain responsibilities concerning their development, there were still many aspects of the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement that had not been properly implemented by Quebec and Canada.

It was the announcement by Quebec of its intention to build further hydroelectric development projects in the territory—and particularly the Great Whale hydroelectric project—that sparked the Crees in 1989 to take out a comprehensive court action that sought to stop the proposed developments and also sought the implementation of those numerous aspects of the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement that had not been implemented by Canada and Quebec.

We can see there was a very lengthy, convoluted, litigious process put in place.

It goes on to say:

When Canada and the Crees entered into out-of-court discussions from 2005 to 2008, this model of devolving to the Crees the planning and setting of priorities for the certain of the obligations that were in dispute was found to be adaptable to the issues between the parties.

I want to backtrack a little. In February 2002, the province of Quebec and the Crees signed the agreement respecting a new relationship between the Government of Quebec and the Cree of Quebec, known as the Paix des Braves. The Cree agreed to discontinue most of their court cases against Quebec and suspend others with respect to matters shared with the government.

This agreement eventually led to this new relationships agreement. Although it is not part of this legislation, it was a new relationship between the Government of Canada and the Cree of Eeyou Istchee. This was an important document because chapter 3 of this new relationship agreement outlined a two-stage process that would look at the implementation of some of the previous agreement that was signed.

This new relationship agreement includes a mutually agreed upon James Bay and northern Quebec implementation plan for the next 20 years, resolution of pre-litigation and other grievances, in addition to a phased approach toward Cree governance modernization.

At the heart of this what we have in the bill before us is only part of what needs to happen. Bill C-28 is only stage one. The commitment in the new relationship agreement said that within 18 months roughly this amendment to the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act would be brought forward as part one.

Bill C-28 would carry out two main objectives. One would be to equip the Cree Regional Authority with additional responsibilities and powers, including bylaw making powers, so that the authority would be better able to receive and carry out certain specified responsibilities which are assumed by the federal government under the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement and recognize the Crees of Oujé-Bougoumou as a separate band and local government under the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act.

We have heard across the board that the nations involved in this and the other nations that are on the other aspects of this agreement are all in agreement that this has to happen. There is full support for the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act amendments.

The next stage, on which all parties have agreed there is a process in place, is that within three to five years another set of amendments would be brought forward to look at the autonomous governance structure that the Crees are fully entitled to have put in place.

Prior to colonization, the Cree nations were an autonomous nation. They had full control over their social, economic and, I would argue, environmental issues, because they were the stewards of the land. They were a fully functioning government structure. Part of this agreement examines the changes that need to be put in place for part two.

We have had assurances from the government and some comfort from the Cree nations that they feel confident that this process will be in place to see these part two amendments come forward within three to five years. I am sure all members of this House would welcome that. Sadly, it took 19 years to get this first set of amendments in place, but they are before us now and we are fully supportive of them.

Part of what was successful was the consultation process.

I want to backtrack for a moment and mention the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Although Canada has not signed on to this aspirational document, I think it does include a framework that is important for us to reflect upon when we are talking about indigenous peoples, first nations peoples, first peoples of this country. There are many articles, but I want to refer to article 18, which states:

Indigenous peoples have the right to participate in decision-making in matters which would affect their rights, through representatives chosen by themselves in accordance with their own procedures, as well as to maintain and develop their own indigenous decision-making institutions.

With respect to the consultation process, the briefing document that was provided to members talks about the kind of consultation that happened. We have consensus on all sides on Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act.

At committee we heard that the Department of Justice was involved with Indian and Northern Affairs right from the outset. The Auditor General, when reviewing other land claims agreements, has said that often the Department of Justice comes in at the tail end. What happens is that a process may have been ongoing for a number of years and when it is down to the final details, all of a sudden the Department of Justices will say, “Wait a minute. Hold on. We have a problem with this”.

I would suggest that the government look at this particular case, Bill C-28, as a model of how it might want to consider other negotiations, whether it is land claims, treaties, or self-governance, and include the relevant departments at the beginning so that we do not run into roadblocks.

The Auditor General was before the committee regarding additions to reserves and treaty land entitlement, and what we discovered of course is that there is not that concerted effort in looking at these agreements.

With respect to the consultation process, the briefing documents acknowledge that under the new relationship agreement, the Government of Canada is obliged to consult with the Grand Council of the Crees. That in itself is progress. The government is acknowledging the need to consult.

The briefing documents talk about what the consultation process looks like with the Cree. Meetings were held with the Cree, including the Crees of Oujé-Bougoumou, with their legal representatives throughout the drafting of the legislation which began in 2007. There were formal meetings, conference calls and many exchanges of letters and emails. Both the English and the French texts of the legislation were reviewed by the Cree. The Government of Canada considered all suggestions proposed by the Cree, and the input received was reflected in the proposed legislation.

That seems to be a very reasonable approach. We have legislation that has a direct impact on the lives of the people in the Cree communities. The Cree was an autonomous self-governing nation prior to colonial times. The Cree have the capability, the infrastructure, and the leadership in place to directly address the issues facing their communities. It would seem reasonable that when the government is drafting legislation that is going to have a direct impact on their communities that they would be included from the outset.

We have seen success with this approach. Bill C-28, because of that very reasonable approach, has had rapid passage through the House and through the committee. The committee certainly heard from witnesses. We did our due diligence. We heard from witnesses who were being impacted by the legislation. We heard consistently that because of this reasonable process, people could sign on to it.

The Cree nations had an opportunity to take this back to their communities, because it was drafted in conjunction with them, get feedback and input, and suggest changes. Here we have a bill before the House that has had smooth sailing because of that process.

Sadly, we have not seen that with respect to other pieces of legislation. A member from the Bloc mentioned the matrimonial real property bill, but I want to raise it as well because that bill has not had a smooth ride.

What the government deems has been consultation, the nations are saying was not consultation because they did not develop that process in conjunction with the nations that were going to be affected.

The ministerial representative's report that the government commissioned made a number of recommendations with regard to consultation.

Some of the elements in the consultation process that was used on Bill C-28 were the very elements the ministerial representative touched on. She said that the department should develop as soon as possible specific policies and procedures related to consultation in order to ensure that future consultation activities can identify and discharge any legal duty to consult while also fulfilling the objectives of good governance and public policy.

She went on to outline a number of factors:

Ensuring First Nations have relevant information to the issues for decision in a timely manner.

With respect to Bill C-28, it appears that the Cree nations had the information they required to make the decisions. There was an ongoing exchange of information. Some of the suggestions they made were incorporated into the bill. There was goodwill in terms of the next stage of the process, so there was success.

She mentioned:

Providing an opportunity for First Nations to express their concerns and views on potential impacts of the legislative proposal and issues relating to the existence of a duty to consult.

I have already outlined that they had that opportunity for input. She also stated:

Listening to, analyzing and seriously considering the representations and concerns of First Nations in the context of relevant legal and policy principles including their relationship to other constitutional and human rights principles.

In this particular case, the Cree and Oujé-Bougoumou had an opportunity to do that analysis, provide their input and have it incorporated. She states:

Ensuring proper analyses by the Department of Justice of section 35 issues relating to any proposed legislative initiative are thoroughly canvassed before, during and after consultations.

Although this may not have been a section 35 issue, the Department of Justice was at the table throughout the process and therefore, the department did not become a roadblock further on down the road. Under the old specific claims process, specific claims could languish in the Department of Justice for years without any decision being made. Again, it is a model I would urge the government to consider, to include the Department of Justice, and other departments, right up front. In some cases the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Department of the Environment have a stake in whatever is under negotiation. It would be important to have them at the table right at the outset.

The ministerial representative recommended:

Seriously considering proposals for mitigating potentially negative impacts on aboriginal and treaty rights or other rights and interests of First Nations and making necessary accommodations by changing the government's proposal.

In this case, the government's own briefing documents indicate that it incorporated the feedback and made some changes as it went along. Further, she recommended:

Establishing, in consultation with First Nations, a protocol for the development of legislative proposals.

Because another series of amendments will be coming up, we fully expect that the framework used in the Bill C-28 amendments will be used in the next series of amendments. The ministerial representative has clearly outlined the process, which appears largely to have been used in the current process.

For example, we know that the government has a process under way around aboriginal consultation and accommodation. It is called, “Interim Guidelines for Federal Officials to Fulfill the Legal Duty to Consult”. The department might want to consider some of these other recommendations that were made, because it appears that first nations have not been included in drafting these interim guidelines.

This looks like an internal risk management exercise for the federal government rather than looking at the broad context of what it means to consult. At one point the document talks about making sure that the government essentially covered its aspect of it without considering whether first nations have been given an appropriate opportunity and the resources. We also know that many first nations communities simply do not have the money to do the kind of work that would provide the feedback and input into a fulsome consultative process.

There is evidence of success with Bill C-28. This evidence of success and this piece of legislation that seems to meet the needs of the government and the Cree nations involved would be a good model on which to move forward.

It is very important that we support Bill C-28 and that it is passed so that the other place can do its due diligence with this legislation. It is a success for the Cree nations and a positive step forward in terms of their assuming their rightful position in self-governance, in assuming the full responsibilities and duties that come with the Cree peoples taking on their bylaws and governance structure.

I am celebrating the NDP's support of this important piece of legislation. I look forward to the amendments coming forward in the next three to five years that will also honour that same process. Hopefully, the lessons learned from Bill C-28 can be applied to other agreements throughout this country.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let me commend the member at the outset for the work she does on many of these items in her capacity as critic for our caucus on aboriginal affairs. Her background in bringing people together is an asset to much of the work that she does here, as I know from my own experience with her as caucus chair. She works to identify an issue, challenge or opportunity, gathers people around that opportunity or challenge and finds some common ground and a way to move forward.

In this initiative, it is obvious that is what has happened. It would not surprise me if she, despite being the lone New Democrat member at committee, has in some substantial and meaningful way driven this to a place where something positive and constructive could happen. I know that we have a history in this country of governments not finding a way to work with and honour our commitments to our aboriginal people.

I have said this on many occasions, not the latest of which was this past week in Calgary, where we had a national conference looking at poverty. If we are going to have any vision for the future, one of the things we need to do as a nation is amend our relationship with our first nations people. We need to do all we can in our power and use all the resources we have at our disposal to fix that relationship so that we can move forward together.

This seems to be an ideal time to do that. I would like the member to share with us the government's role and participation in this. Did it participate in a positive way? Did it provide constructive support? Is it going to be supportive of this initiative going forward?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for Sault Ste. Marie for his tireless work on raising the issues around poverty in this country and talking about potential solutions. He literally has been coast to coast to coast to talk to people, gather their input and their feedback and propose solutions. I want to honour him for the work he has done.

With regard to Bill C-28, previously when I rose in the House and spoke on the bill, the minister was surprised that I was saying something nice about the Conservative government. In this particular case the government did come to the table in good faith, and it worked with the Cree nations to come up with this piece of legislation.

Again, this is a model that could be used. It is a model where all the parties were at the table right from the outset. It was model where the Cree nations felt heard, their input was respected and the legislation in their view reflected the changes they wanted to see.

Hopefully, this goodwill continues and the next series of amendments, which are long overdue, will come forward in that very same spirit.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the speech of the NDP aboriginal affairs critic with interest.

During questions and comments we heard the member talk about the process that was used for Bill C-28, the Cree-Naskapi act, in terms of consultation and so on. We also heard very similar comments from the opposition parties in terms of how Bill C-5, An Act to amend the Indian Oil and Gas Act was developed. That Act received royal assent in the last two weeks.

I would like to point out that Bill C-8, which is the bill dealing with matrimonial property issues, was also developed in a very consultative approach. The drafting of the bill was done with two major national aboriginal organizations very much participating; that would be the Assembly of First Nations and the Native Women's Association of Canada. Therefore, it is not a case of black and white on consultation or no consultation. This is a very difficult area when we have 630 first nations across the country.

I would like to invite the member to comment on this.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on matrimonial real property, Bill C-8, there is a difference of opinion between the government and the Assembly of First Nations and the Native Women's Association of Canada. Both of those organizations do not support Bill C-8. They do not feel it reflects what they heard from the communities. In fact many of the recommendations that the ministerial representative and her team made, whose work I quoted from on the duty to consult, were not incorporated into Bill C-8.

The minister came before the committee this morning and talked about what he saw as being important in Bill C-8, which is the ability to allow nations to develop their own codes around matrimonial real property, and that the current state of the Indian Act prevents him from doing that. I would suggest that the government could withdraw Bill C-8 and reintroduce a bill that deals with the ability of nations to give the minister the authority under the Indian Act to have those codes developed. If that is the stumbling block, why not put forward a piece of legislation that actually addresses what he says is the real need?

Again, consultation has to not only meet the government's needs, it has to meet the needs of the people. I heard the parliamentary secretary say that is what Bill C-8 does. Well, Bill C-8 does more than that. Therefore, if the government would withdraw Bill C-8 and reintroduce just the pieces around the Indian Act and bands developing their codes, we might be able to have a different conversation around it.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to ask my colleague, who has worked so hard on this file, a question. This is further to the parliamentary secretary's question about the difference between the approaches with respect to Bill C-28 and that of Bill C-8, which has caused a lot of discussion in this place and a lot of controversy.

Unfortunately, because it is our understanding that proper consultation with respect to Bill C-8 was not done and that there is this differing viewpoint between the Assembly of First Nations and the government and between the Native Women's Association and the government, and because the government tends to interpret any opposition to Bill C-8 as being anti-women or anti-equality, I think we do need some clarification on the different processes that were applied. Where did the government fell amiss in terms of Bill C-8 and why it was successful with respect to Bill C-28?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the member for Winnipeg North on having an initiative around flavoured cigarillos adopted by the government. That is an example of how we can work together on issues.

With regard to Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act, the difference between that bill and Bill C-8 is stark. With Bill C-28, the parties were at the table right from the outset. They had the Cree Nations and the Ouje-Bougoumou at the table along with the Department of Justice as the legislation was being drafted.

We know that did not happen with Bill C-8. There was a very tight timeframe for the Assembly of First Nations and the Native Women's Association to start a process. We discovered in hearing back from them that the process could not get to consultation because there was so much education that needed to happen. There was an education awareness process that took place with the Native Women's Association and the Assembly of First Nations. They did not get to the consultation process.

With the ministerial representative's report, which is very thick, her recommendations were largely disregarded. I quoted from her report in my speech around the elements of consultation she thought were important to truly get the kind of legislation that reflected the needs in the community.

As the member for Winnipeg North pointed out, this is often stated as the New Democrats being against women's rights. I would argue we are advocating strongly that whatever legislation comes forward actually protects women's rights and that we do not get a flawed piece of legislation like we have from the 1985 Bill C-31, which is now seeing people lose their status. We want a piece of legislation that reflects the needs of those communities, the women and their children.