Bill C-302 (Historical)

Italian-Canadian Recognition and Restitution Act

An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history

The purpose of this enactment is to recognize and apologize for the treatment that persons of Italian origin received in Canada during the Second World War in spite of the contribution that they have made and continue to make to the building of Canada.
The enactment also provides for restitution to be made in respect of this treatment. The restitution payment is to be applied to the development and production of educational materials relating to Italian-Canadian history and promoting ethnic and racial harmony, and to other projects agreed to by the Minister of Canadian Heritage and an educational foundation established for this purpose.

Members not seeking re-election to the 42nd Parliament

[Massimo Pacetti, Independent, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Chair, over 13 years ago, I answered the call and agreed to run in the byelection in the riding of Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel. With the support of my family, friends and constituents, I managed to get elected and then re-elected for five consecutive terms.

As one of the rare MPs who was born in his riding and has always lived there, I was very proud and humbled to agree to represent my riding here in Ottawa. I was very touched that my peers would entrust me with this great responsibility.

Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel is one of the most diverse ridings in Canada. Although that diversity presents some challenges, I have always considered it to be a great source of strength and vitality. Since I was first elected in 2002, I have sought to advance the issues that are important to our community, but always with a view to improving our country.

It would be hard to list every single thing that I accomplished in these 13 years. However, having served under two Liberal prime ministers, I had the opportunity to support a number of very important decisions—both national and international ones—that benefited Canada. In this time I also had the opportunity to help my community more directly by playing a role in ensuring that the Canadian Grand Prix would remain in Montreal, under the right hon. Jean Chrétien. Then, under the right hon. Paul Martin, I am proud to have helped the Italian channel RAI International obtain a broadcasting licence in Canada.

Other moments in my career as a member of Parliament that come to mind are when I was elected chair of the Standing Committee on Finance in 2004, after less than two years as a member of Parliament; when the House of Commons passed my private member's bill, Bill C-302, the Italian-Canadian Recognition and Restitution Act, on April 28, 2010; and when I worked with representatives from the Department of Finance to amend the regulations to make it easier for the people who need it most to access the registered disability savings plan.

However, the most rewarding part of my work here was when I was able to help people deal with issues that did not fall under my direct mandate. What I will remember most about my time as a member of Parliament is the opportunity to have a direct impact on another person's life, since the main reason I decided to run for public office was to help others.

Meeting Canadians from all over our great country and visiting their communities has also been an extraordinary experience for me. We live in a big, beautiful, eclectic country. I had opportunities before being a member of Parliament to travel this country, but as MPs, we are inspired by how amazing Canada is, which is why I was motivated to introduce a private member's bill called the discover your Canada act. The goal was to facilitate and encourage all Canadians to travel in Canada to get to know this country. Unfortunately, the House was not as enthusiastic about my idea as I was, and the bill did not pass, which is one of the disappointments of being a member of Parliament.

We all come here thinking we are going to change the world, and sometimes we succeed, even if it is in a small way. There are also times when we come up short, and for one reason or another, moments like that can be frustrating. In those times, I have always remembered that the most important thing is to never stop listening and to never stop trying to help people.

As many members know, being a member of Parliament is an extraordinary experience and privilege that gives us an opportunity to take action that can improve the lives of our fellow Canadians. When we see something that needs to be changed, that is a priceless gift I have appreciated immensely.

As well, I am grateful that this job has allowed me to cultivate a closer relationship with my community. Whether as a school trustee, a volunteer soccer coach for my daughter or hockey coach for my son, or a member of various community-based organizations, I have always been active in my community, before and during my tenure as a member of Parliament. As an MP, I have learned to be much more, because my constituents shared their concerns, their hopes, their frustrations, and their opinions with me on a daily basis in one way or another. This job has given me a perspective few people have the privilege to experience, and that will stay with me for the rest of my life.

I would be remiss if I did not take a moment to thank all the people who have walked this journey with me or simply made doing this job possible. I salute the staff of the House of Commons and the Parliament of Canada for their dedication and professionalism. This place could not function without the support of clerks, librarians, assistants, pages, support staff, maintenance workers, IT specialists, shuttle bus drivers, and of course, security staff, and many who are the engine of our democracy.

I thank my own staff, past and present, for giving 120% when I needed them to go above and beyond, and for not giving less than 80% even on those long summer days when Montrealers are more interested in spending time on terraces than in calling their local MP.

I say a special thanks to my employees who spent more than five years working for me. I actually have more employees who have worked more than five years than who have worked less: Sylvie Vogels, five years; Adele Cifelli, six years; Ben Niro, seven years; Pina Frangella, 12 years; and Suzanne Bertrand, more than 12 years.

To my constituents, it was an absolute honour to serve them. We come from a very special place, where in spite of all our differences, we never forget that we are all in this together and that our ability to show compassion and understanding is the truest measure of our community's success.

This kindness we have in Saint-Léonard Saint—Michel has sustained me during these last few months, which have been the most trying of my career. I can wish no person what I have gone through over this trying time, but good and bad things happen, especially in politics, and we must always be ready to deal with them. I remain positive and look forward to the future with my head held high, knowing that I have done no wrong and have represented my constituents honourably.

To my friends, who are too many to name, I thank them so much for their unwavering support. Of course, I thank my family for their love—my wife, Danielle; my son, Carlo; my daughter, Briana; my parents, Alessandro and Filomena; and my sister, Silvana, and brother, Franco, and their families. Without them, these last 13 years would not have been possible. I got to live out a dream because I had them all backing me up, and words cannot begin to express the depth of my gratitude to all of them.

I leave here with a sense of accomplishment.

[Member spoke in Italian as follows:]

Grazie. Buonasera.

The House resumed from April 22 consideration of the motion that Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history, be read the third time and passed.

Italian-Canadian Recognition and Restitution Act

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the facts are in. We just heard speakers from all parties and the issue is pretty well decided, that this legislation is quite clear, events in the past happened and it is time to turn the page and move forward.

It is true that Italian Canadians were interned, detained and enveloped in a cloud of suspicion during the second world war because the government of the day decided to succumb to fear instead of granting these Canadians, for they were Canadian, the same consideration as other Canadians.

Over 60 years ago, our government allowed itself to be guided by fear rather than facts. That was wrong. Clearly, the government's actions destroyed families, reputations and communities, and debased our moral sensibility. These facts are undeniable. Clearly, the government took those measures based on some Canadians' ethnicity and a fear of that ethnicity. We all know that this is true and we all know that it was unfair.

Bill C-302 takes these facts into account and what it is proposing is quite simple. It calls on the Prime Minister to make an official apology here in the House of Commons to the Italian community. It proposes making Canadians aware of this chapter in our history in order that we may never commit the same mistake again. It proposes entrusting the task of deciding how to achieve the bill's educational goals to respected community groups that are closely linked to this issue. Bill C-302 proposes that we commit to facing this issue directly once and for all instead of sweeping it under the rug.

The government is opposed to the bill, but it has not been able to present one witness. Not one plausible reason has been given to justify voting against it. The only thing it claims is that an apology already was issued by a former prime minister to the Italian community to address the wrongs of the past. This was done at a dinner banquet in front of a small crowd and is not comparable to an official apology in the House of Commons. That is what this bill is asking for.

It is similar to those apologies we have seen under previous and current Conservative governments, for residential schools, the Chinese head tax and the Japanese internment during World War II. The proper setting for an apology by the government to address a wrong of the past is in the House of Commons and not in a banquet hall.

I have also heard that this bill is divisive, but nothing could be further from the truth. The bill seeks to unite Canadians. The bill is about Canadians apologizing to other Canadians. When a Canadian apologizes to another Canadian, it builds a bridge of respect, understanding and friendship.

I have heard that the bill is divisive because it singles out one cultural community, the Italian Canadian community. I argue that we were able to bring several witnesses before the heritage committee, and not one spoke against this bill. We were able to hear from all the important predominant organizations representing the Italian community, including the Canadian Italian Business and Professional Association, la Fondation Communautaire Canadienne-Italienne du Québec, the Order Sons of Italy of Canada, the Casa d'Italia, and of course the National Congress of Italian Canadians.

I want to thank everybody who spoke in favour of this bill. I want to thank the member for Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher who spoke more Italian than he ever has spoken English in this House. I have never spoken Italian in this House, so I want to compliment him on his Italian, which is very good. I also want to compliment and thank every other member who spoke on this bill.

As the debate on Bill C-302 comes to a close, I want to thank my colleagues. As I said earlier, this is a very emotional issue that has been ignored for far too long.

I would like to conclude by simply asking my colleagues to consider the history of this issue, the facts that have been stated, the intent of this bill and the essence of what it means to be Canadian. I ask them to consider all of this and to vote in favour of Bill C-302.

Let us turn the page on a sad chapter in our history once and for all, so we do not repeat it in the future.

[Jim Maloway, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to Bill C-302.

At the outset, I want to congratulate the member for his perseverance in bringing forward this bill. A lot of work goes into a private member's bill. He has gone to considerable lengths and efforts to get the bill this far.

I recognize there is some disagreement between the supporters of the bill and the Conservatives, but that is to be expected in a House such as this. However, I encourage him. We in the NDP certainly support the bill. We are strongly behind it.

I also want to congratulate the member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River and the member for Vancouver Kingsway who made excellent presentations on this bill. I have read most, if not all, of the other speeches on this bill in Hansard.

This bill is an act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their enemy alien designation and internment during the second world war, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian Canadian history. As I indicated before, my party is universally in support of the member's efforts in this regard.

On September 3, 1939, the Government of Canada issued regulations that empowered the minister of justice with the full authority to act as he chose to destroy any subversion during the time of war. This allowed him to detain without trial any person and created a class of aliens who were not foreign nationals but were Canadian citizens.

On June 10, 1940, Italy declared war on Canada. That very evening, Prime Minister Mackenzie King announced that he had ordered the internment of hundreds of Italian Canadians identified by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as enemy aliens. That order was applied to Italians who became British subjects after September 1, 1922.

The government also established a judicial mechanism to administer internment proceedings. It passed an order in council which ensured the registration of all people of Italian birth. Furthermore, the office of the custodian of alien property was authorized to confiscate the property of enemy aliens.

Like the internment of Japanese Canadians, Ukrainian Canadians, German Canadians and others, the forced registration and internment of Italian Canadians is a sad chapter in our history. In some respects it is a forgotten chapter because people my age and younger only learned of this history many years after the fact. It is very appropriate that legislatures across the country have dealt with these issues over the last few years. It is certainly better late than not at all.

The RCMP rounded up approximately 700 Italian Canadians. Often, parents were separated from their children and husbands from their families. There were 17,000 people designated as enemy aliens for no other reason than their birth. There was no reason to suspect that those interned posed any threat to Canada or Canadians. In fact, many of them were first world war veterans who had fought for their adopted country. That is a very hard fact to come to grips with and swallow, that someone who had served this country during the first world war, some 20 years later would be part of a group that was interned. It is very hard to get one's mind around that.

Presumably there were records. We have dealt with that. Everyone knew from the records who was who. It is hard to think that the RCMP would just simply take somebody who had been in this country for 20-plus years, who had served in the first world war and, after exemplary service and an exemplary work record, would round him up and take him away. It was not uncommon for men in uniform to come back home only to find that family members had been interned. I cannot think of a worse situation than that.

The roundup of Italian Canadians was virtually completed in October 1940 and, as we all know, most of them were sent to Camp Petawawa situated in the Ottawa River Valley. It is difficult to establish how many Italian Canadians were interned, although estimates range from 600 to 700. I read a lot of very good information on Italian community websites, which explain the history of what happened during that period.

Although the majority of those interned were from areas with the highest concentrations of Italian Canadians at the time, Montreal, Toronto and other centres in Ontario, there are also documented cases in western Canada.

The internment was brutal. Families could not visit or write interned people for the first year. They had to go a whole year without knowing where their family was. Italian Canadians were penalized financially. A spontaneous boycott of Italian businesses, whipped up by the prejudice of the times, took place throughout Canada. Provincial governments ordered municipalities to terminate relief payments to non-naturalized Italians. Travel restrictions were imposed on Italian Canadians and their ability to occupy certain jobs was prohibited.

We were half a world away from where the war was at. For Italy to be a threat to the North American continent at that time I would think would be absolutely non-existent. Why there would be so much concern about interning people on such a big scale in a vast country like this does not make any sense, certainly not in the context of the times. However, those were different times and people obviously had different attitudes.

Italian Canadians were forced to report on a monthly basis to the RCMP. Activities, such as teaching the Italian language and meetings of the Roma Society, were declared illegal. As a matter of fact, the previous Bloc speaker indicated how the Italian language could not be spoken in churches in Quebec and that French had to be used.

Internment was up to three years and the average interned person was held for almost 16 months. To put some feelings on this, these are not just numbers we are talking about. Some of the people interned were doctors, lawyers, carpenters, bakers, contractors and priests. I believe a doctor from Sudbury was interned at the time.

It was just as bad for families because these actions added to their psychological scars. They suffered constant harassment and ridicule from neighbours and co-workers and the fearmongering being perpetuated by elected officials of the day.

The federal government went even further. It froze bank accounts. It forced Italian Canadian families to subsist on $12 a month. Many Italian families were forced to sell their homes, businesses and valuable assets.

If we were to face something like that right now, I can imagine what our overwhelming reaction would be. We would find this hard to believe.

The Liberals, Conservatives and NDP members can be cats and dogs in this House some days, but without getting into a political fight, the fact is that members should note that it was New Democrats under the CCF who stood alone for decades against internment and against the War Measures Act and in favour of civil liberties. The forefathers of our party stood up against the erosion of civil liberties at a time when the Liberal Party was in power and was doing things like this. We have a very pristine history and a good position when it comes to issues like this.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in addition to the merits of Bill C-302, which is about recognizing and redressing, albeit in a small way, the injustice done to our fellow citizens of Italian ancestry during the second world war, I have very personal reasons for rising here today and supporting it.

Since several members of the Italian community are no doubt listening to this debate, I would like to begin by saying a few words to them in their mother tongue.

[Member spoke in Italian ]

[French]

For the benefit of my hon. colleagues who are not bilingual, I will translate what I just said in Italian.

I was raised, both during and after the war, in Ville-Émard, Montreal. At that time, there were many residents of Italian descent in that neighbourhood, as there are today. These people were our neighbours. We children all played together. Our parents were all from the same social background—labourers like my father or small business owners, people who worked hard. When my parents spoke about the internment of Italians during the war, it was always with sympathy and indignation. I think that my parents, if they were alive today, would be proud to see their son speaking in the House about legislation to acknowledge the injustice committed against our fellow Canadians of Italian descent.

In a 1957 book in Italian, Father Guglielmo Vangelisti described what the Italian community experienced when war was declared between Italy and Canada. Here is my translation of a passage from his book titled Gli Italiani in Canada.

Faced suddenly with such dreadful news, our compatriots in Montreal were dumbfounded and had scarcely enough breath to exclaim, “Poor us.” From then on, against their will, they became enemies of their beloved country. And even though they had previously been held in high esteem and loved as cousins and brothers, they would be looked on as enemies and traitors worthy of the utmost scorn. The RCMP swung into action immediately. With a list of our compatriots in hand, they ran here and there, like hounds on a trail. They went into homes, stores and offices and picked out the heads of family and the most prominent people in our community. Once they had found them, the RCMP handcuffed them and loaded them into the van, as their appalled wives and children looked on, crying and wailing.

Meanwhile, other police officers searched the house from top to bottom. They searched clothing, beds and cupboards, leaving nothing untouched. Once a good number of our compatriots had been rounded up, the van sped them away to the city's jails, where they were kept prisoner under close watch. This process was repeated until hundreds of people were being held.

In the jails of Montreal, our poor prisoners remained isolated in cells for days before being transferred to the concentration camp in Petawawa, without knowing how or why they were to stay there for months or even years, separated from their families and the rest of the world.

In this city without women, as Mario Duliani described it in one of his books, the men were constantly filled with fear and anxiety. They yearned to be free and gave up hope even when freedom was within their grasp.

As the detention camps filled up, the government ordered the seizure of Italians' assets as enemy property. The Casa Italia was seized. Our compatriots' property was seized along with what little money they had scrimped and saved to put in the bank. How did their families manage to support themselves? They had to wait and try to save money as best they could. By the end of it, they were up to their ears in debt.

Mr. Vangelisti went on to say—I am still translating from Italian—that while the second world war had disastrous consequences for many of our families, it was just as bad for our churches and parishes. Cherished popular celebrations were no longer held, processions and concerts were prohibited, raffles and all organizations were banned, even for charitable purposes. We were not allowed to gather, even just a few of us at a time. Although Italian was not banned in church, many people at Notre-Dame-du-Mont-Carmel in Montreal felt it was prudent given the overheated atmosphere to speak French instead. In Ottawa's Saint Anthony church, people began speaking only English.

We have come a long way. I believe that we are not always aware of just how fragile the protection that is supposed to guarantee our rights and freedoms is. Nothing will correct the injustices perpetrated on our fellow citizens of Italian origin some 70 years ago. Nevertheless, the bill introduced by our colleague from Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel will, among other things, make succeeding generations more aware of just how precious and fragile that protection is and of how important it is to defend and broaden it.

That is why I, like my Bloc Québécois colleagues, will vote for Bill C-302.

The House resumed from March 30 consideration of the motion that Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history, be read the third time and passed.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to have the opportunity once again to speak in support of Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history. The New Democrats are pleased to support this bill and to assist with its movement through Parliament.

Our great nation has a history as colourful and as varied as its people. Like many countries, however, Canada has experienced some dark points in its 143 year history or, as Canadian author Kenneth Bagnell would say, this chapter in Italian Canadian history is known as the days of darkness or the days of despair. These dark days took place during the second world war.

The entry of Italy into the second world war brought considerable disruption to the Italian Canadian community. While these communities were able to withstand a number of economic challenges due in large part to their strong family networks, there was one challenge they could not overcome.

In 1935 the actions on the other side of the ocean began to be felt by thousands of Italian Canadians and all Canadians who had settled in Canada, and that year Canadian hostility toward fascism had reached its climax. With Italy joining Germany in the war, Canadians became increasingly antagonistic toward Italian Canadians.

As a consequence of Italy's alliance with Germany in World War II, Italian Canadians were designated as enemy aliens and, as such, were the victims of widespread prejudice and discrimination. Canadian authorities believed that these strong family ties among the Italian community posed a serious potential threat to national security. Men lost their jobs. Shops were vandalized. Civil liberties were suspended under the War Measures Act. Hundreds were interned at Camp Petawawa in northern Ontario.

One of the Italian Canadians who would later be interned at Camp Petawawa was Italian-born Sudburian Dr. Luigi Pancaro. Dr. Pancaro was born on July 8, 1897 in Cosenza, Italy. After graduating with his medical degree from the University of Rome at the age of 28, he made his way to Canada where he became the first Italian-born medical doctor in Canada's north.

During the early 1930s Dr. Pancaro and his wife settled in Sudbury with the large Italian community and became a member of the staff at St. Joseph's Hospital and at the Sudbury Regional Hospital. In addition to joining the hospital staff, Dr. Pancaro also opened a private practice and became the family doctor for many members of the Italian community.

Dr. Pancaro's life dramatically changed on June 11, 1940. That day, Dr. Pancaro was suddenly pulled away from the patient he was seeing, placed in the back of a police van and transported to the Sudbury jail. In his cell, Dr. Pancaro met other Italian-born men, most of them his patients. Dr. Pancaro's abduction happened one day after Italy entered the second world war.

The evening before Dr. Pancaro was taken away in a police van, Prime Minister Mackenzie King ordered the internment of hundreds of Italian Canadians identified by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as enemy aliens. The roundup of Italian Canadians continued until October 1940.

Camp Petawawa was made up of 12 large barracks which housed 60 or more people in each. The entire camp was surrounded by two large barbed-wire fences. Those interned there were boys as young as 16 to men in their 70s. The internees were made to wear jackets adorned with a large red circle on their backs, a target for guards to shoot at if any tried to escape.

While at the camp, none of the internees saw their families. Letters from their loved ones were censored. Some men would stay for months, while others would remain for years. Dr. Pancaro remained at the camp for two years.

After that bitter experience, Dr. Pancaro returned to Italy. He ultimately returned to Sudbury in 1956, where he continued his successful medical practice until 1981.

These men, like Dr. Pancaro, as well as their families, who were denied relief bore the brunt of hostilities during this dark time in Canadian history. As a result, many Italians later anglicized their names and denied their Italian background. It is because of this hostile and hurtful treatment that many second generation Italian Canadians do not know nor fully understand their history.

The fact that this dark chapter in Italian Canadian history has led many to deny their Italian background makes it imperative that the government take the steps outlined in this bill; that is, provide for restitution and promote education on Italian Canadian history.

While our communities wait for governments to do the right thing, many in my riding of Sudbury have proudly carried forth and shared their Italian heritage and achieved success. In fact, despite being one of the city's hardest hit by these days of despair, Sudbury's Italian community has continued to make significant steps toward preserving and passing on its Italian culture and traditions to its future generations.

Nowhere are these Italian traditions of hard work and dedication to family and community more visible than in the vibrant Italian community in Sudbury. Sudbury is home to the Caruso Club, one of the largest Italian associations in all of Ontario. I had the distinct honour of being a guest at the club's membership meeting this past Saturday. Formed in 1947, the club is a not-for-profit organization that promotes, enhances and preserves Italian culture and heritage within the Canadian multicultural mosaic.

For those who are in the Sudbury area in the first week of July, I encourage them to come to the Italian festival and have a fantastic porchetta sandwich.

Something which is very important is that the club also renders assistance to persons of Italian nationality in need. It also maintains a library and archives of Italian heritage.

I would once again offer my thanks to the current board of directors of the Caruso Club, Sav Doni, John Santagapita, my cousin Egidio Manoni, Linda Zanatta-Beaudoin, Danilo Monticelli, Lina Sanchioni, Bob Armiento, Ugo Rocca, and board president Tony Nero, for the club's continued contributions to and support for the local community.

I would also like to extend my thanks to the Caruso Club's umbrella groups, which also make significant contributions to the Sudbury Italian community and to the overall community: Associazione Marchigiana di Sudbury, whose president is Ezio Campanelli; Associazione Veneta, whose president is Leo Silvestri; and the Calabria Social Club, whose president is Sav Doni. There are many others organizations, such as the Caruso Club Choir, the Caruso Club Children's Choir and the Caruso Club Ladies Auxiliary, to name a few.

We have a vibrant Italian community in Sudbury, and that is something I am very proud of.

For documenting and preserving this rich local history and sharing it with me, I would like to thank Diana Iuele-Colilli, who kindly supplied me with her book, Italian Faces: Images of the Italian Community of Sudbury.

Given that official apologies in the House of Commons have been offered for past actions of the Canadian government, I urge all members to join me in voting in favour of sending Bill C-302 to committee.

We will stand again in support of this bill so that the wrongs committed against Italian Canadians in the past can be made right.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I understand the Liberal members taking offence at the comments by the hon. member for Peterborough. He is often more partisan than anything else.

The Bloc Québécois is in favour of the bill of the hon. member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel.

Bill C-302 asks three things of the Conservative government: to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the second world war; to provide for restitution; and to promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

I am not the one who chose the term “Italian-Canadian”. I do not really see the difference between Canadian of Italian origin and Italian-Canadian.

If Bill C-302 is passed, Parliament would recognize this injustice. And I emphasize “Parliament” because that is what was discussed in committee.

It is important to mention that it is Parliament. Former Conservative prime minister Brian Mulroney has already made public apologies, but that was at a gathering held outside Parliament. It was not as solemn as it might be if the current Prime Minister rose in the House and apologized on behalf of the Canadian government.

In committee an attempt was made to study the bill. At least three groups came to testify. First there were three Canadians of Italian origin or Quebeckers of Italian origin, who are members of a committee created by theMinister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism and who were hand-picked by the minister and who represented only themselves. These persons came to tell us that all this was unnecessary and that Italians did not want these apologies. I was quite surprised at this, but three persons who seemed to me quite credible came to tell us that.

At the following meeting of the committee on November 24, a great many Quebeckers and Canadians of Italian origin testified: the National Congress of Italian Canadians, Casa D'Italia, the Order Sons of Italy of Canada, and the Italian-Canadian Community Foundation of Quebec. All of these people told us that Brian Mulroney’s apologies were not enough and that they absolutely wanted to make known the history of Canadians of Italian origin. So be it.

Also in committee, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism said that it would be undignified for the government to apologize too often. I do not recall if I had time to tell him, but I certainly remember this. I am pleased to have the opportunity to say this now. I wanted to respond to the minister that I do not believe it is undignified for a government to apologize too often. Instead, I think it is always dignified to recognize one's mistakes and apologize until our victims are satisfied. Whether in the case of a government or an individual, this shows dignity.

Of course, this bill is not perfect. We would have liked to amend it in committee, adding a suggestion to Canada Post Corporation to issue a postage stamp, rather than instructing it to do so. It seems that that corporation does not take instructions from anyone, especially not the Minister of National Revenue, as set out in the bill. It seems this is not within the powers of the Minister of National Revenue.

To accurately translate the wishes of the people who appeared before us and the sponsor of the bill, perhaps we should have insisted that it be amended in order to make it very clear that any apologies should come from Parliament, through the Prime Minister here in this House.

In the end, however, we ran out of time, because the Conservatives obstructed the committee's work for partisan reasons, forcing us to wrap up our work before we were done.

Despite these imperfections, the Bloc Québécois will vote in favour of the bill introduced by the member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, because it is a way for us to pay tribute to all Quebeckers of Italian heritage and thank them for their support over the decades, particularly in Montreal, and for enriching our culture.

I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to all Quebeckers of Italian ancestry in my riding, especially the Italian senior's club in Saint-Hubert and its energetic and brilliant president, Guiseffina Vetri. In closing, I say grazie!

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to the bill, a bill that, when it was before committee, certainly stirred up strong emotions on all sides. When the bill was up for second reading I rose from my seat and voted against the bill because, while the bill has good intent, it is actually a very poor bill.

I am pleased to speak to an issue that concerns one of Canada's largest cultural groups. The last census indicated that there were about 1.4 million Canadians of Italian descent. I do not have an English name but I have never looked at myself as anything but a Canadian. I suppose I am a Canadian of Italian descent but I always object to the title “Italian Canadian”.

Italians were among the earliest Europeans to migrate to this continent. They have unquestionably contributed significantly to Canada and to North America if we look to our partners to the south in the United States. Americans of Italian descent have contributed significantly to that country. We can go back as far as 1881 when there were literally cascades of Italians immigrating to Canada and they were contributing toward massive construction projects, like the Canadian Pacific Railway.

This year will mark the 70th anniversary of the Italian internment in Canada. I would like to take members back to when Italy declared war on the Allies in 1940. The prime minister of the day ordered the internment of hundreds of Italian Canadians identified as enemy aliens. The prime minister invoked the War Measures Act known as the Defence of Canada Regulations. Today we look at the War Measures Act, which was repealed, by the way, by Prime Minister Brian Mulroney in 1988, the same Brian Mulroney who apologized to Canadians of Italian descent in 1990. I will get into that in a little while.

However, we look at that time and we look at the prime minister and Parliament invoking the War Measures Act at that time and wonder how they could do that. How could they have done that to Canadian citizens? The government also passed an order in council calling for the registration of all persons of Italian birth and for the confiscation of enemy aliens' property.

Despite the financial hardship and the shame suffered by some of their countrymen, hundreds of Italian Canadians enlisted in the Canadian armed forces because they felt the war against Fascism and Nazism was justified. The most decorated veteran from my city was a Canadian of Italian descent. He actually went to war serving in Italy on a battlefield where he met family members on the other side, but felt passionately enough about the cause to fight for Canada. It is an incredible story. There can be no doubt that Canadians of Italian descent have made enormous contributions to our nation and these historical facts constitute one of the saddest and most dramatic chapters in the annals of Canadian history.

As I said, the hon. member who brought forward Bill C-302, Italian-Canadian Recognition and Restitution Act, in relation to this dark chapter in our nation's history, has done so I believe with good intent, but it does not change the fact that it is a very bad bill and divides Canadians of Italian descent. In fact it looks backward at a time in Canadian history, but not backward enough to see that the apology that was offered some 20 years ago had a very profound effect on the Italian community.

I just want to reference something from a friend of mine, Annamarie Castrilli, who was the president of the National Congress of Italian Canadians. She was instrumental in obtaining the courageous admission of an apology by the then prime minister, Brian Mulroney. She wrote to me and said, “As you know, this year marks the 70th anniversary of the internment. To commemorate this, I have been asked to write a book which deals with what led up to the apology and the circumstances that existed in 1940. I am one of only two commissioners left who actually talked and corresponded with internees. There is only one left to my knowledge. The book is an analysis of the situation in Canada during World War II and the noble act of one prime minister where all else had failed. Whatever else may be said of Brian Mulroney, this was a significant achievement that set the record straight and profoundly changed the life of a community”.

She goes on to include a copy of the speech given by the then prime minister, Brian Mulroney.

This bill calls for an apology on behalf of Parliament, the Government of Canada and the Canadian people. The problem is that it suggests that there was an injustice, that the government acted illegally. We can look back at that time and ask how they could have done this. How could we actually have a law like the War Measures Act in place in a country like Canada that believes in rights and freedoms? We have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It was a Conservative prime minister in 1958, I believe, who brought in the bill of rights protecting the rights of all Canadians.

We look back and wonder how that was possible but, unfortunately, it was not illegal. The then Liberal government acted within the law in enacting the War Measures Act. Bill C-302 calls for restitution to Italian Canadians in the form of educational projects that provide information on Italian Canadian history and promote ethnic and racial harmony. However, it also opens the door for unlimited liability from the Crown to persons who would seek damages from the Crown.

The member referenced other apologies. I acknowledge that we did have an apology for the Chinese head tax. I know that an injustice is an injustice and a crime is a crime, but the scale of what happened to Chinese Canadians or Canadians from the Chinese community occurred over decades of discrimination by the Crown. It was profound. It was unquestionably a sad time in our history. I know that we as Canadians are proud that we have moved beyond that but the scale of it was much larger. However, an agreement was arrived at.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

moved that Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history, be concurred in.

(Motion agreed to)

The House proceeded to consideration of Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history, as reported (without amendment) from the committee.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

I have a subamendment to the motion that reflects the legal concerns I brought forward, and I think it would also reflect a lot of the evidence we've heard at this committee. The subamendment would read as follows, picking up on the amendment proposed by the member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel. It says that Bill C-302 in clause 3 be amended by adding after line 16 on page 2 the following:

The Prime Minister shall, in the House of Commons, offer

--striking the words “the apology”--

his thoughts referred to in subsection (1) on behalf of the Government of Canada and the Canadian people.

Then I've added:

These remarks should specifically comment on the wrongs committed to the Italian Canadian community at that time and be made within the context that what occurred at the time is regrettable, but consistent with the laws of the nation at that time. The Prime Minister should also thank former Prime Minister Mulroney for his understanding in ensuring that history would not repeat itself by repealing the War Measures Act.

I referenced several times, and I think it's critically important, that this bill does not recognize the facts of what occurred at the time. In fact, I read legal opinion this morning that indicates the bill seeks to rewrite history. That's a problem, because Canada's history is not perfect. No nation's history is perfect. In fact, we have become, I think everyone would agree, a more civilized society. We have more rights. We have more privileges, and our Canadian Forces today continue to fight for our freedoms and to protect that democracy. But we can't rewrite history. We can't change what's been done.

In the days following the apology for residential schools, I remarked specifically that there is nothing I can do about the past, and the only thing we can hope for moving forward is forgiveness. It's the same thing with the Italian community. If we don't have forgiveness at this point, after what has already been done, then it's unlikely it will ever occur, because what's missing is not the apology. We cited many times that this event has been referenced. It was referenced in 1988. That's why this subamendment is important, because in 1988, when Prime Minister Mulroney repealed the War Measures Act, he did so specifically referencing the internment of Italian Canadians. Again, in 1990, when he addressed the National Congress of Italian Canadians in Toronto, an event organized by them, as outlined by Mr. Calandra, he specifically referenced the fact that they had repealed the War Measures Act, that we had learned from our history, that we would ensure that it would not occur again. Mr. Pomerleau indicated at some time previously in the committee that the War Measures Act was enacted in Quebec in 1970. While I disagree with the premise wholeheartedly that there's any similarity, Prime Minister Mulroney did in fact repeal the War Measures Act.

Mr. Pomerleau and I can have a conversation someday as to whether then French Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau was right for taking the actions that he took. We can have that discussion, that debate, someday. I'd love to hear his thoughts on it, but it's not material to this matter.

Clarifying this amendment with the subamendment is critically important, because as I've indicated previously--and I can get an awful lot more legal opinion that will back me up on this--the word “unjust”, the word “restitution”.... I typed those words into a legal database yesterday because I wanted to get legal definitions of the words “unjust” and “restitution”. What I found is that while there may be definitions in a dictionary, in law they mean something quite different. A definition in law is established by precedent. And the precedent with respect to these issues is incredibly unclear.

In government we're expected to do due diligence. We are legislators. We write laws. That's what we do. We should be responsible when we're passing bills and when we're suggesting that actions be taken by the government that could, whether intended or not, open the crown to significant liability under the War Measures Act. That could involve everyone who has ever been affected by the War Measures Act. If you can rewrite history on this, you can rewrite history on any wrong that has ever been carried out by the crown.

At the time, the crown may have acted in what it thought was the best interests of the people. Today, we may think the decision was wrong. I've maintained from the outset that what happened to my family in 1940 was wrong. They didn't deserve it. Nevertheless, I don't think anyone in my family wants the crown, the taxpayers of Canada, open to billions of dollars of liability. There is no way we can contain it. We live in a litigious society.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Chairman.

Subsequent to our meeting in which we were discussing the very significant legal ramifications of clause 3 of this bill, considerations I think this committee should be well apprised of because it seems that members are reluctant to consider the implications it could have for all Canadians who were ever affected by the War Measures Act, I did get a legal opinion on Bill C-302, which I'd like to share with the committee. It deals specifically with this matter. I'd like to share that with the committee, because I think it's very important. I can share more of the letter if people would like more background, but I'm going to deal with the potential legal risks arising from Bill C-302.

This opinion I received from Mr. George Barry, counsel, legal services unit, Citizenship and Immigration Canada. He writes:

One area of legal risk that exists should the Bill become laws concerns the possible increased liability to the Crown in the context of the Giacomelli case. In Giacomelli v. R. the plaintiff, an Italian-Canadian who had been interned in World War II, brought legal proceedings against the government seeking damages based in part on an apology given in 1990 outside the House of Commons by then Prime Minister Mulroney to the Italian Canadian community. Since Giacomelli is still before the courts, the passage of Bill C-302, in particular its formal apology by Parliament could have an adverse effect on its outcome. While Mr. Giacomelli passed away 2 years ago, his estate is continuing the proceedings, but only on non-Charter arguments since the Courts have ruled that Mr. Giacomelli's estate cannot invoke Charter arguments in his stead.

As well, the Bill must be considered in the context of the Agreement-in Principle entered into between the government of Canada and representatives of the Italian-Canadian community. While this agreement did not create specific obligations on the part of the Crown with respect to compensation, it did arguably create an obligation on the Crown to negotiate. Bill C-302, at the least, creates a parallel obligation to negotiate.

Up to now Canadian courts have been reluctant to conclude that an apology is an admission of liability. This said, all court cases so far on this issue have been concerned with material or physical damages from motor vehicle accidents, commercial transactions and the like. In many cases the apologies were made verbally, and on the spur of the moment. No court has ever had to determine whether an apology contained in a statute or made by a Prime Minister in the House of Commons or by another representative of the Crown is akin to an admission of liability. It is consequently uncertain how the court in Giacomelli would interpret an additional apology, this time in a statute, when the case is actually pending before the court. But it seems safe to say that it increases the risk against the Crown.

It is also important to note that any risk represented by Giacomelli may be clarified in the near future as a hearing before the Ontario Divisional Court in this case took place on November 4th. The appeal here is by the Crown challenging the Ontario Superior Court's decision not to allow the Crown's motion to strike the plaintiff's claim. While our litigators view the Crown's chances of success in this appeal as good, an assessment of the ongoing impact of this case on C-302 will have to await the release of the Court's decision, which is anticipated in the near future.

Notwithstanding the courts' reluctance to link apologies to liability, there is concern about this in the legal and parliamentary communities. Evidence of this is that 2 years ago the Uniform Law Conference of Canada adopted a motion encouraging all provincial legislative assemblies and the Parliament of Canada to enact legislation which states that an apology is not an admission of liability and cannot be used in a court of law to prove liability. So far, 4 provinces have enacted such legislation (BC, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario). At the federal level, some discussions have taken place between the Department of Justice and the Department of Canadian Heritage with no outcome yet.

At this point, I would note that in the province of Ontario the provincial government did enact the Apology Act 2009. What the Apology Act does--and what the federal government is not protected from--is the act stipulates that in civil proceedings, administrative proceedings, or arbitrations, evidence of apology is inadmissible as evidence of fault or liability in connection with that matter. It's significant. The federal government has no such legislation. So an apology, especially one that's passed by Parliament, could very well bring the crown into a significant case of liability in all cases where the War Measures Act was in fact undertaken.

I'll continue on with the letter:

As well, and perhaps more significantly, the Bill appears to be seeking to alter the legality of things done in the past. The Crown has argued in the Giacomelli case that its actions were appropriate and measured, in terms of the situation that existed at the time, and that these actions were entirely within the law. This Bill seeks to reach back into the past and to retroactively render these acts illegal.

If C-302 is enacted, it would be the first time that an apology is provided to ethno-cultural communities in a federal statute. Apologies have been made by Prime Minister's in the House.

An example is given for the internment of Japanese Canadians during World War II, which was made in 1988, and there was one for the residential schools in 2008. Outside the House, prime ministers have apologized for the internment of Italians during World War II, in 1990, and the turning back of the Komagata Maru ship to India in 1914.

A number of court cases, initiated by ethno-cultural communities, followed the apologies and redress package provided only to the Japanese-Canadian community in 1988....

--the Giacomelli case in 2005 on the World War II internment, and the Ukrainian Civil Liberties Association in 2007 with respect to the World War I internment--

In order to mitigate risks, the Prime Minister's apologies for the Chinese Head Tax and for the Komagata Maru incident referred to the legality, at the time, of the measures taken.

This bill, as stated previously, seeks to rewrite history and deem these things as illegal, which is a problem.

Passage of C-302 could also expose the government to a significant risk of...litigation based on s. 15 of the Charter by members of other ethno-cultural communities who suffered comparable treatment as the persons of Italian descent in World War II.

The example given is German Canadians, or in “World War I (Germans, Ukrainians and other members of the Austro-Hungarian Empire) who would not benefit from C-302.”

Risk of a successful s. 15 Charter challenge was mitigated in the case of the apologies and redress made to the Japanese- and Chinese-Canadian communities, in 1988 and 2006...because these two communities each suffered treatment that was deemed unique and unparalleled.

Legislation related to the internment of persons of Ukrainian origin during World War I received Royal Assent in 2005. This legislation was amended such that a number of legal issues identified above were addressed.

So they actually took time to deal with this and head off the potential legal implications for the crown prior to royal assent.

As well, while requiring the Government of Canada to undertake negotiations with the representatives of the affected community, it did not require that these negotiations concern restitution for unjust treatment. Considerable discretion was provided for with respect to the various measures that might be addressed in the agreement (including that the parties “may request the Canada Post Corporation to issue a commemorative stamp”).

In s. 3 of the Bill the treatment of the persons concerns is said to be “unjust” and to represent “an infringements on their rights”. While this language does not explicitly and retroactively alter the legality of what was done, it might, as noted above, be argued to have this effect. An amendment would be advisable to reflect...what...was legally authorized at the time and to clarify the current Bill is not making any retroactive change to the law in effect at the time. It should also be noted that, while the Bill (in terms of the apology and the acknowledgement of past wrongdoing) is aimed at individuals, the compensation referred to would not be individual in nature.

Therefore, by referring to individuals, and wrong done to individuals, it could well be interpreted that the compensation, or any kind of funding that would be forwarded, as the bill seeks negotiations, could be deemed to have been directed at the wrong individuals, representing, again, a significant liability for the crown.

The letter continues:

Therefore any argument that the Bill is intended to address all issues with respect to the right to compensation is diminished by the fact that the Bill speaks in terms of wrongs done to individuals but compensation that is not to be provided on an individual basis.

As well, the Bill identifies the wrong Minister: the Minister of Canadian Heritage. If this Minister were given the authority set out in this it is unclear that the negotiations could be carried out under the current authority of the CIC Minister. The most straightforward method to address this would be to amend the Bill to name the correct Minister.

In addition, as noted above, the Bill as currently drafted runs the risk of being viewed as a money bill. Even if this were not the case, and as also noted above there is an argument to the contrary on this point, the fact that the Bill would require a pay out of funds still creates a problem. Parliament's approval of a negotiated agreement by any mechanism other than enacting a money Bill would have no ability to unlock the consolidated Revenue Fund so as to enable payment to be made.

I could continue, because the letter does continue, but it's very important. I understand that several members opposite feel that we should just vote on this, we should get it done, we should move it through. That's all we should do, because it's a short bill, and you know, what harm can be done by a short bill? But the reality is—as I stated at the last meetings—the ACE agreements specifically limited the liability of the crown, and this bill does not do that. It simply does not.

As I indicated earlier, by indicating that measures, as undertaken through the War Measures Act, which was repealed by Brian Mulroney, then Prime Minister, in 1988.... His government repealed the War Measures Act, specifically citing experiences of cultural communities, including the Italian Canadian community, as a reason for repealing the War Measures Act. The actions taken under it were just at the time. They may not have been right, but they weren't illegal in Canadian society. And when the previous government undertook its ACE agreements, it said, again—I just want to find it—that this “this Agreement-in-Principle, premised on the principles of ‘no compensation’ and ‘no apology'”. The reason they did that specifically was because of the potential liability, into the billions of dollars, that can be created by literally rewriting history in this fashion. It's irresponsible, and it's not expected by Canadian society.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Richard Dupuis]

For Bill C-302.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Welcome to meeting number 41 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, pursuant to the order of reference of Friday, March 6, 2009, Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

Just before we start, I've been asked by the clerk to bring forth the budget for our witnesses. I would like to get it out of the way quickly, if I could.

The budget is for $16,400. Witnesses' expenses are $14,400, and $2,000 is for miscellaneous.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

We're discussing my Bill C-302; that's what I'm here for. All of a sudden you've thrown in committee business. I don't know how you run your committee, and you're more than welcome to run it in the fashion you like, but I'd like to continue with this.

Let's finish Bill C-302 and then go on to committee business. Let's finish Bill C-302. There's plenty of time; it's a very small bill. There are only two more clauses, if we could vote on them. Then we can go on to committee business and you can go on to your daily affairs.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to go back to Mr. Bruinooge's comments specifically. He talked a bit about the apology that was made in the House of Commons, I think a very significant apology, for residential schools, something all parties agreed with. I think it was something that was very emotional; it was owed and it was appropriate.

What preceded that were negotiations and the finalization of an agreement. An apology was made subsequent to an agreement being in place. When you don't do that, you open up the government to unlimited liability. Because I started this conversation about legal implications, I want to talk about what the Department of Justice has had to say--not the ministry, not the minister, not the government, but the Department of Justice. These are people who work in the department on behalf of Canadians. This is their criticism or comments on this bill, and members of this committee, who I believe want to be responsible, should pay heed to this. By the way, the amendment makes it worse.

To begin with, it says the bill describes the wartime measures imposed on the Italian Canadian community as “unjust” and refers to “other infringements of their rights”. The bill also refers to the payment as “restitution”. The characterization of the internment as unjust and requiring restitution is not consistent with the position of the government with respect to historical wartime events or immigration restrictions experienced by the Italian Canadian and other communities. The CHRP program or the historical recognition program and the head tax apology are based on the premises that although these events may not have been in keeping with present Canadian values--and this is an important distinction--they were legal at the time.

We can look back and say it wasn't right; we shouldn't have acted that way. So many things were done by groups over the course of history that were wrong, from everything related to religion, to politics, to monarchies, to colonialism that's occurred around the world. These things were wrong, but at the time there was a different view of them. That's the point the Department of Justice is making.

The ex gratia payments to surviving head tax payers and spouses of deceased head tax payers are clearly characterized as symbolic payments, not restitution. This is important.

The Department of Justice is of the opinion that if the Government of Canada were to apologize, as provided for in Bill C-302, it could have negative implications for the government in an active court case where an action has been brought against Canada by an individual for general and punitive damages for his internment during the Second World War.

So we're not saying what if. It's not that this could happen. There is already a case before the courts in Canada where this clause in particular, with the amendment--because we're speaking to the amendment--would make it worse. It would open up the Government of Canada to significant liability because there is no agreement in place.

Passage of the bill might encourage further legal actions of this nature to be filed. The fact that the bill refers to “other infringements of their rights during the Second World War” is a factor that could be significant from a charter liability perspective if other cases were brought before the courts on the basis of Bill C-302.

I brought this up earlier and I said the government in 2005 went out of its way to indicate that these agreements were made on the principles of no compensation and no apology--all of them. We look at what the Department of Justice is saying. It's done that way because passage of bills like this would encourage further legal action. We know we've already got legal action in the court.

I can tell you that the Italian Canadians I know are not looking to expose the Government of Canada to legal liabilities, to legal actions, to court cases that could cost all of us as taxpayers a lot of money. We know we have a lot of priorities in this country. We have a lot of things we'd like to do. Italian Canadians want to see a better, safer, stronger Canada. That's what they want. They want a Canada that can look after its people better. What they don't want is a Canada where millions, potentially hundreds of millions, of dollars are going towards what this bill refers to as restitution.

Specifically with respect to apologies in the House of Commons, there have been apologies in the House of Commons. As I indicated, I was proud to be present for a very significant one. I think Italians in this country would generally recognize that what occurred around the residential schools in this country was a far more significant action, imposed upon a founding people of this country, within this country than what was suffered by the Italian community. I say that, as I've indicated many times, as a person who was directly impacted by the implementation of what at the time was the War Measures Act, which was repealed by Prime Minister Mulroney.

If we can't agree that it was a far more significant travesty that was committed against first nations, Métis, and Inuit in this country than what occurred to the Italian Canadian community—as wrong as that may have been. It's wrong, but on a different level. It's wrong, but on a different scale. And I think it was important that the apology occurred, because, as we all know, we have to start a relationship with our first nations that encourages everyone in this country, that makes everybody feel they're part of this country, that allows for equal opportunity in this country. We have a significant group within our first nations that feels disassociated, and I believe that's largely because in the apology we recognized that with the previous governments and groups that set up the residential schools, the goal of that was to strip away the aboriginal identity. That was clearly wrong, and that was not, by the way, what occurred with Italian Canadians. There was no effort to strip away their identity. It wasn't an effort to break them and to teach them a new way to be a person.

I want to refer to comments made by previous Liberal prime ministers, if you'll just allow me a minute. I'm working, as I said earlier, without my binders.

As has been noted earlier, Prime Minister Mulroney offered “a full and unqualified apology for the wrongs done to our fellow Canadians of Italian origin during World War II”. Those were the words of then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney.

I think we can all agree that when the Prime Minister of this nation speaks, any Prime Minister, it's significant. For people to say that words that aren't stated in Parliament aren't meaningful, I simply don't agree. In fact, some of the most powerful political statements ever made in the history of the world—whether it's in the U.S., in Congress or in the House of Representatives, or in England in their Parliament, or in Germany, their Parliament—simply have not been done inside.

When John F. Kennedy said, “ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country”, that was not made inside a political building. It was significant.

When Martin Luther King said, “I have a dream”, that statement was not made inside the House of Representatives; it simply wasn't, but the words were significant because a leader--a leader--stated them.

I heard the comment made that Martin Luther King wasn't elected. Well, that may be, but he was a representative of the people. The statements he made were significant and they weren't made inside of the House of Representatives.

When Winston Churchill said, “Never...was so much owed by so many to so few”, that was also not made in the Parliament of England, and I don't know that more significant words were ever said by a Prime Minister.

But let's look at what some other Prime Ministers of Canada have said.

This is not my writing but the writing of a respected Canadian journalist. “Prime Minister Trudeau arrogantly dismissed the very idea of redressing any wrongs of the past.” In 1984, Trudeau said--I should be clear; this is Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau, and not a reference to any current members of the House. He said, “The government cannot redress what was done. How many other historical wrongs would have to be righted?” This was Mr. Trudeau's consistently dismissive approach to all questions of redress.

Likewise, under Mr. Trudeau's eventual successor, the Right Honourable Jean Chrétien, the government's message to Italian Canadians was to forget, to look ahead. As Angelo Persichilli has written, Sheila Finestone, the minister responsible for multiculturalism, sent all groups a letter on December 14, 1994, categorically refusing apologies and redress of any sort. She wrote, “We wish we could relive the past. We cannot.”

That was the stance of Liberal governments in the past. Mr. Persichilli also points out that it only seems to be an issue for the Liberal Party when they're not in government or when there isn't an election. That's when it's an issue.

With respect to an apology in the House of Commons, we come back to the amendment being proposed. Why does this amendment make it even worse, in terms of what the Department of Justice has said? Well, it heightens the level of the apology. You're lifting it up to a level equivalent with the apology that was made for residential schools. It's on the same plane, with no agreement, no agreement at all, just an apology that sets the environment such that....

I'm not a lawyer. I don't know whether there are lawyers on this committee, whether there's anybody with a legal background on the committee. I have been in business for a long time, and I know that specific words are significant when it comes to law, and they don't always mean the same thing the way we would use them commonly in society as they mean in law.

When the Department of Justice looks at something and says payments have been classified as symbolic payments, not restitution, when you're classifying something as restitution, that's significant. When you're referring to an act as unjust, that is significant. In law, that is significant, and it leads to charter liabilities in this country.

That's why the Liberal Party was so careful, even in its ACE program. They put legal jargon at the end of the ACE program. Why did they do that? Well, because they looked at it and said, “We could really be opening up a can of worms on the taxpayers of Canada.” It's not about whether what was done was right or wrong, whether it should have happened, whether or not the Italian community has moved on or hasn't moved on; it's about being responsible as an elected member to the people who elected you. How much liability are we going to open those people up to simply because the majority of members on this committee apparently feel we should do that? I don't believe a single member of this committee, other than me, has ever been directly impacted. Even for me, it's only through a relationship to people who have been directly impacted. I'm 39 years old; this happened in 1940.

I can't say this emphatically enough. This specific amendment in this clause is a big problem. It's a big problem. As we saw, all Liberal governments in the past went out of their way, past Liberal leaders went out of their way, to indicate that no apology was owed, nothing was due, let's move on. Their agreements indicate very clearly, as I've said before, that they were made on the principles of no compensation--not restitution. They didn't even use a word as strong as “restitution”. They said, “this Agreement-in-Principle” is “premised on the principles of ‘no compensation’ and ‘no apology’.” Then at the end, as I've indicated, legal jargon. The legal jargon is important. That's what protects the taxpayers. They don't just make it clear under the agreement in principle. They clarify it at the end, where they say:

This Agreement-in-Principle shall not be interpreted as a full and final agreement nor as constituting an admission by the Government of Canada of the existence of any legal obligation of the Government of Canada....

They get that signed, too. If you don't get that signed...and this bill does not do that. If members of Parliament start passing bills like this that have unlimited liability, then we're being totally irresponsible to the taxpayers and we are opening up significant problems.

It's not just with this cultural community, by the way, because the other communities where there are already agreements are already working with the CHR program. By the way, the Italian Canadian community is working with the CHR program--not everyone, admittedly, but they are. For other groups that have already begun to work with the government on these issues, they are then going to turn around and say, “You have acted preferentially towards a group that was affected.” But were they as affected as, for example, the Chinese, with the Chinese head tax?

The Italian internment, it's noted, affected roughly 700 people. As I've indicated, it had broader implications because it led to widespread discrimination against Italians in Canada. It led to an embarrassment of Canadians of Italian descent in this country that they were classified as such. I can speak to that at length because I've lived it. Look at what occurred, for example, to the Chinese Canadian community--and this is the Liberal Party agreement. It says:

This is a first step in articulating their shared vision for the acknowledgement, commemoration and education of Canadians about the imposition of a head-tax exclusively against immigrants of Chinese origin between 1885 and 1923....

That's 38 years of a head tax against one community, exclusively against immigrants of Chinese origin. Before that, by the way, we were bringing in the Chinese in significant numbers to build the railway and putting them in dangerous positions, positions where many of them died, in circumstances where it wasn't healthy. We exploited those people. That's part of our history as well. That was wrong--38 years of a head tax.

If we go back to the Italian agreement, it reads:

This is a first step in articulating their shared vision for acknowledgment, commemoration and education of Canadians on the historic experience of Italians in Canada who were designated as enemy aliens and some of which, as well as some persons of Italian origin, were interned.

Not all Canadians of Italian descent in Canada were interned. For 38 years all persons of Chinese origin who were trying to enter Canada had to pay a head tax. It was discrimination against a specific group.

My grandfather was never arrested. Not everyone of Italian descent in this country was arrested and interned. I don't know what criteria were used for pulling people off the streets, pulling them out of their places of work, pulling them out of their businesses and interning them, the persons of Italian descent who went through that. It was wrong. But it's not on a scale of what happened to the Chinese Canadian community, simply not.

I look at it and say if you are going to open up a liability for this country based on nothing other than politics, it's irresponsible. This specific part of this bill, clause 3, does exactly that. That's what the Department of Justice says. If members would like to get the Department of Justice in to get a direct opinion on clause 3, without a minister, without anyone, just get the facts; if you'd like to hear from lawyers, constitutional lawyers, who could tell you, people who understand the charter who could tell you what this amendment does and what this clause of this bill does.... The potential liability for Canada is significant.

That's why Liberal leaders of the past did not do this, but our government has acted. We have put in place CHRP, a significant program that seeks to work with Italian Canadian communities to recognize the wrongs of the past. That's what we should be doing. We shouldn't be opening Canada up to an unlimited liability. That's what this does, and as I said, this amendment makes it worse.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Welcome to meeting number 40 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. Pursuant to the order of reference of Friday, March 6, 2009, we are studying Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

We move today to clause-by-clause consideration. Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of the preamble in clause 1 is postponed.

The chair calls clause 2.

Mr. Calandra.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

Following up on where we sit here on the committee, you mentioned that some committee members weren't paying attention to the answer. That's too bad, because they made impassioned arguments against the point you were making. I'm glad you had the opportunity to clarify that.

I mentioned that Angelo Persichilli has written a number of articles on this bill, including one very recently. I apologize because I'm going to quote it in English, but it was originally written in Italian.

It says that Bill C-302 is a result of a personal initiative of two deputies who are not sponsored.... It's not a position of the Liberal Party, just of Mr. Pacetti and Mr. Tonks. He goes on to say that the initiative, while it's laudable, is above all politics.

One of the things that I really haven't appreciated in this is that as a Canadian of Italian descent, I firmly believe that Canadians of Italian descent have long accepted that this country apologized when the War Measures Act was repealed in 1988 and specific reference in the House of Commons to the Italian internment was made. Italians forgave. Italian Canadians have been key builders in this country. I think they have both found their place in this society and made contributions.

I think this bill ultimately will divide. We've heard them impugn Canadians of Italian descent here today who apparently aren't good enough Canadians to sit on historical recognition boards.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Welcome, everyone, to meeting number 39 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, pursuant to the order of reference of Friday, March 6, 2009, Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

Appearing here this morning is the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, the Honourable Jason Kenney.

Mr. Kenney, go ahead, please.

[Nino Colavecchio]

There are two aspects to the historical

claims our community is making on this front.

One of them was, of course, the apology, and there was an aspect of redress. I think that when the ACE agreement was reached—and I go back to that because it's an agreement that did reach a consensus within the community—there was a financial aspect.

I think what everyone is trying to say here is that the Italian community does not require funds for its survival. We're not here for a handout, not at all, but what we are talking about is that if we are going to embark on a project of educating, of commemorating, and of making sure that this type of situation gets recognized as what happened, there has to be an educational process.

That is why we wholeheartedly support Bill C-302, in that the honourable member, when he proposed this bill, included the fact that this fund would be purely educational. In other words, we are not in a process of bricks and mortar here. What we want to establish is an educational program, which of course would have to be done with the entire community, so when we say the money is not important, what we're trying to say is that it's not like the Italian community requires this for its survival.

[Fernando Forcucci, Immediate Past President, Order Sons of Italy of Canada]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. My name is Fernando Forcucci, and I am the immediate past president of the Order Sons of Italy of Canada. I won't bore you with too many details, just a few.

As stated by many honourable members of the Canadian government, this bill is not just about Italians. It is about making a wrong into a right for all Canadians, because most of those interned were Canadian citizens. Canadians of Italian origin like me are made to feel like second-class citizens by my government, which chooses to apologize to other ethnic Canadians, such as the Japanese Canadians and Chinese Canadians, but not to the Italian Canadians.

I've been involved with this file for about 20 years. The spring of 2005 was fantastic for the Italian community, because the government of the day announced that it was willing to resolve this file. After months of negotiation, and with our community united, in November 2005 an agreement in principle was signed by the Canadian government and the four senior organizations: the National Congress of Italian Canadians, the Order Sons of Italy, CIBPA, and La Fondation Communautaire Canadienne-Italienne du Québec.

It was announced that an agreement was reached in principle under the ACE program, which provided for a full settlement in the sum of $12.5 million, which was to be administered for the Italian community by the NCIC foundation. To date, the community is still waiting. We have met with many honourable members of the present government to try to resolve this file, but to no avail. In June 2006, the government of the day eliminated the entire ACE agreement without consulting the Italian community, and it created the CHRP program.

Furthermore, the administration of funds is by Canadian Heritage under CHRP, whereas the Japanese Canadians and Ukrainian Canadians administer their own funds. Does this government not trust our community? Again, I and my community feel like second-class Canadians.

As the immediate past president of the Order Sons of Italy of Canada, and as a member of one of the oldest national organizations in Canada--it was founded in 1915--I and the Order Sons of Italy fully support Bill C-302 and sincerely hope that the file will bring closure to the Italian internment issue.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Antonio Sciascia, President, Quebec Region, National Congress of Italian Canadians]

My name is Antonio Sciascia. I'm the president of the National Congress of Italian Canadians, Quebec region. I'm a governor of the Italian Canadian Community Foundation. In my capacity as past president of the National Congress of Italian Canadians, on two occasions I have been involved in this very specific issue, and many others, for the last 25 years.

Today I am speaking on behalf of the Italian Canadian Community Foundation established in 1975 with the mission to raise funds for the aid and advancement of the Italian Canadian community and society at large. I underline “society at large” because today the Italian Canadian foundation contributes most of the funds raised--and I must say they're in the millions of dollars--to non-Italian organizations, such as hospitals and other charitable organizations all over this country.

I underline this because the issue today is not one of money. We are not here for money; we are here to claim an apology for the Italian Canadians who suffered all the injustices during World War II.

We support Bill C-302 unreservedly. The foundation was one of the signatories to the agreement in principle signed by the Government of Canada on November 5, 2005. When the Conservatives took office, we spent a number of years negotiating in vain with former Minister Oda, and our negotiations with the current Minister, Jason Kenney, have been equally fruitless. For reasons that are beyond me, Minister Kenney unilaterally decided to implement a new program that does not enjoy the support of the main Canadian Italian organizations.

The CHRP is an insult to our community for reasons that have already been communicated, as explained in the brief submitted on March 31, 2009, to the Honourable Jason Kenney, the minister. I draw your attention to the footnotes of this brief that give you a brief glimpse of a limited number of interventions by the national congress over the years. There are many, starting with the repatriation of the Constitution, the issue of the Multiculturalism Act, and the issue of immigration. On any issue that Parliament has dealt with, the national congress has made representation to the government.

On this particular issue of redress for internees, we have made representation to Parliament on several occasions. We go back to the early nineties, when we submitted a brief to the Prime Minister at the time called “A National Shame: The Internment of Italian Canadians”. At the conclusion of a committee of the national congress that travelled across Canada, this brief was made to the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney. Subsequent to that Mr. Mulroney did apologize before a banquet held by the congress in the CIBPA in Toronto, but this apology was never formalized.

As you know, this government apologized to the Chinese Canadians on the head tax. It apologized to the Japanese Canadians way back. It also settled this issue with the Ukrainian Canadians and gave the Ukrainian Canadian Foundation a $10-million endowment fund, administered by the Ukrainians themselves.

Why is it that we are not able to administer this fund? The foundation has raised millions of dollars in the past for the three major earthquakes that affected Italy: in 1976 in Friuli; in 1980 when we raised $12 billion and built homes for the people of Campania and Basilicata; and this year when we raised close to a million dollars for the people of Abruzzo. So we do not understand why we cannot administer a fund of $10 million, $12 million, or whatever it might be. However, the fund is not so important. At this point we want to correct the injustices of the past.

I agree that an apology will not solve everything, but at least it will make those people and those families who still remember.... And if you spoke to people who went to those camps you would understand why an apology would undo the wrongs that were committed during World War II.

It's an issue of doing what is right, and who did what in the past is irrelevant. Two wrongs don't make a right, so let's rectify this injustice.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Dominic Campione, Former President, National Congress of Italian Canadians]

I'm not sure how far “former” goes; that could be the first president or the immediate past president. I'm the immediate past president. My name appears on the signing document of the agreement in principle.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members, for giving us the opportunity to speak on this most important issue for the Italian-Canadian community.

We are here before you, although with gratitude and passion, disheartened and dismayed at the injustices done to 17,000 Canadians of Italian origin who were designated as enemy aliens under the War Measures Act and who constantly had to report to the RCMP. There were 6,000 men and women arrested and 700 interned. Children from the age of 16 and adults all the way up to 70 were there. Doctors, lawyers, priests, carpenters, bakers, contractors--you name it, they were there, averaging 16 months to five years in Petawawa, in St. Helen's, in Fredericton.

In all of these, no one was ever charged. They had no right to counsel--as a lawyer, I think that's very important--and no fair hearing or trial. A whole community under siege, discriminated against and devastated, has, over 69 years and five and a half months, from June 10, 1940, not seen these injustices corrected. When is this terrible wrong going to turn into a right?

We firmly believe that the agreement in principle signed by the Government of Canada on November 12, 2005, under the ACE program, with its full funding administered by the NCIC foundation, was the correct course of action in correcting this wrong. This agreement between the Government of Canada and the four signatories on behalf of the Italian-Canadian community was the culmination of many years of work by the NCIC and others on the internment issue. With good faith in negotiations, the Italian community, united in purpose and heart, would put closure on this internment issue.

A central part of the bill was with respect to education, including an endowment fund. Through education, one not only remembers the past but is taught the past, ensuring that it's never repeated. It was also contemplated in the bill that we set up Italian chair studies.

To our shock and dismay, the correction of this wrong was again not to be. In June 2006, the Government of Canada unilaterally replaced it with CHIRP, without any consultation.

Notwithstanding the discussions and meetings that followed thereafter with the appropriate ministers, Bev Oda and Jason Kenney, with the NCIC throughout this taking the lead in bringing the parties together to discuss the issues and build consensus and unity in our community, no resolution was found.

The Italian Canadian community is a strong and united community. We applaud and support the Honourable Massimo Pacetti's bill, C-302, which once again clearly corrects the wrong, recognizing the injustices that were done to persons of Italian origin during World War II by way of an apology in the House of Commons and providing for restitution and promoting education on Italian-Canadian history.

It is said that a nation can't forward until it recognizes its past. It's time. How long do we have to wait? Are we to be treated any differently than Japanese Canadians, than Chinese Canadians, than others? Let not the Italian community be treated any less. Education, as I mentioned before, is a central part.

The Italian-Canadian community has been resilient throughout these years. It has come together in many facets; be it with earthquake relief funds or many other tragedies, we are united as one. Let us work together and bear witness, by the passage of this bill, to turning the wrong into a right.

Thank you.

[Nino Colavecchio]

We didn't table the document. We have a document that is available for you, which is a report on this long journey. We hope this journey will culminate in the adoption of Bill C-302.

The NCIC emphatically supports Bill C-302. The bill responds to the historical demands of our community, in that it provides for an apology and financial redress.

It is important to note that the apology is an essential element in closing this unfortunate episode in Canadian history. Although then Prime Minister Mulroney did in fact apologize at an event held by the Italian community, a formal apology by the Canadian government through a motion in the House of Commons was never received, and it has been pointed out that such an apology was given to other communities for events of this nature.

The financial redress takes on a particular significance, in that it will serve to commemorate the event and to ensure that it is not forgotten. Historians rightfully say that those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. We believe that educating Canadians on this event and on the positive contribution of Italian Canadians to the evolution of Canada will serve not only the Italian-Canadian community, but all Canadians who have been harmed by ethnic, racial, or political profiling.

I now give the floor to my colleague and former president, Dominic Campione.

[Michael Stante, President, National Congress of Italian Canadians]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I just have a little preamble before I introduce everyone, if I may.

Mr. Chairman, members of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, on behalf of all of the members of the Canadian Italian community here today, I would like to thank you for giving us this opportunity to appear before you today. I would also like to formally thank all of the members of Parliament—members of all different political stripes—who have supported and who continue to support this bill.

My name is Michael Stante. I'm the current national president of the National Congress of Italian Canadians, herewith referred to as NCIC. I am also a former president of the CIBPA, Quebec region, and former vice-president of both the NCIC Quebec and the Italian Canadian Community Foundation.

Joining me at this table are Mr. Nino Colavecchio, former national president of the NCIC, former president of the national federation of CIBPA, former president of the CIBPA Montreal, or Quebec, and former president of NCIC Quebec region; and Mr. Dominic Campione, former president of the NCIC, director of the Canadian Ethnocultural Council, and member of the CIBPA Toronto. Both Mr. Colavecchio and Mr. Campione will be presenting the NCIC's position with reference to Bill C-302.

Representing the Italian Canadian Community Foundation, we have Mr. Galella and Mr. Tony Sciascia. Mr. Sciascia is the current president of the NCIC Quebec region, former national president of the NCIC, and governor of the Italian Canadian Community Foundation. Mr. Mario Galella is the former president of the Italian Canadian Community Foundation. It is Mr. Tony Sciascia who will be making the presentation on behalf of the foundation.

Representing the Casa D'Italia, we have Mr. Ciro Cucciniello, who is the longest-serving board member of the Casa D'Italia. I only have to assume that sooner or later he's going to be president.

We also are joined by Mr. Fernando Forcucci, the immediate past president of the Sons of Italy of Canada. He will be presenting the position of the Sons of Italy.

If I've taken the time to identify at some length the standing of these members of our community, it is only to impress upon you that these are individuals with longstanding community service and for some of whom determined debate has been ongoing for 20 years or more. So it's nothing new to them.

I would like to point out, as shown by our collective presence here at this table, that the NCIC once again is seeking to forge a consensus of the various interest groups in the Canadian-Italian community, much in the same manner as it did when we negotiated the ACE program.

Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I would like to call upon Mr. Nino Colavecchio and Mr. Dominic Campione to present the position of the national congress.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, meeting number 38. Pursuant to the order of reference of Friday, March 6, 2009, we are considering of Bill C-302, an act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their enemy alien designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

Our first witness is Mr. Pacetti. Would you please make your presentation, sir?

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I know, of course, that it was the member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel who rose in the House and introduced this bill. I personally applauded that because I know the Italian community well. My father was a contractor in the 1950s and the first people to arrive from Italy almost all settled in Villeray where my father had his business. A number of them worked for us, they spoke not a word of French or English and they wore scarves on their heads when they worked. That is how the Italian community in Montreal was born.

I know that, for a long time, a part of the community was affected by the War Measures Act that was in force during the war. As you know, Quebeckers are in general agreement with the bill's intent to recognize past injustices. Quebeckers suffered the same kinds of injustices. You will recall that the War Measures Act was invoked in Quebec in 1970. Four hundred Quebeckers were arrested for no reason at all. They were never charged, they never had their day in court, they were put in prison for political reasons, with no shred of evidence that they were guilty of anything. So we understand past injustices perfectly well and we agree with rectifying them in whatever way we can.

My question is kind of like Mr. McCallum's. I am a bit skeptical when I do not understand things. Mr. Perin, you said just now there is currently a process in place. What exactly is the difference between what is currently in place and what is contained in Bill C-302?

[Frank Moceri]

Initially it was $12.5 million, but ever since then, should I say, programs have been put in place that never matured to anything at the end, like the ACE program was brought to the forefront and never ever finished.

Have there been any other programs? It's been all programs, but there's been nothing.... Now that we see Bill C-302, it is definitely a step in the right direction to make sure this takes place.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to our witnesses.

As a Canadian who is very proud of his Italian heritage, I'll tell you that I don't support Bill C-302. I think it has very significant problems, and I'm actually surprised, on a number of levels, that you would support Bill C-302. I think it'll fracture the Italian community and fracture it quite badly, actually.

I'm proud to have served on the executive of the Peterborough and District Italian Club. I'm proud to have worked to raise money for the L'Aquila relief program; we're going to present a very significant cheque in Oshawa. I worked on it with a fundraiser in St. Catharines. I attended the damaged sites with Mr. Di Iulio this past summer. I lost my grandfather a couple of years ago, who was, in my actual family, my last direct link back to Italy, but I do feel that connection to Italy and certainly to the Italian Canadian community.

But, I look, for example, at problems with the bill, like the fact that the National Congress of Italian Canadians are the only ones named in the bill.

They cut your group out, sir.

And they certainly cut your group out, sir.

It establishes an endowment fund for which only they will decide who actually gets the money. Don't you think this is going to fracture the Italian Canadian community? I can tell you from just serving on boards on my local Italian club that money being spent by the club on any given initiative tended to raise some passions with the Italian community.

I think if they're going to cut out significant organizations across this country, which this bill does, it's going to fracture, not unite, the Italian community. Don't you agree?

[Salvatore Mariani]

Absolutely--the National Federation of CIBPA supports Bill C-302.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

So does Bill C-302 write you in or out of the process?

[Salvatore Mariani]

They are part of Bill C-302.

the restitution, for education. The bill states also “restitution”, as I read it here. Again, it depends on how we read it, but restitution as a global word.... That could mean restitution for education. That could be restitution as with the families. I'm not sure if that's what it implies, but perhaps that could be elaborated on, probably in your decision-making. But definitely, to give back to the community, to the families that have been hurt by this, we look at it as restitution. That's how we read the bill.

[Salvatore Mariani]

As our president pointed out, the National Federation of CIBPA is in favour of Bill C-302 in principle. We are really touched by—

specifically, the apology in the House of Commons. That makes probably the biggest difference in what has transpired to this day. What we find striking sensitively in our hearts was the apology in the House of Commons, very similar to what was done for other groups, such as the Japanese in 1988 under the former prime minister, Mr. Martin.

[Frank Moceri, President, National Federation of Canadian Italian Business and Professional Associations]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the committee for inviting the national federation to this meeting.

I'd like to take a couple of minutes to highlight what the national federation's objectives are. They are to promote and foster recreational, cultural, social, artistic, charitable, business, and professional activities in the Canadian Italian community in Canada.

We are an apolitical group. We have many chapters across Canada as well. We're here to support Bill C-302.

Our presentation is probably very short. CIBPA has always been in the forefront of the redress campaign for our Italian Canadian community. It started two full years before the National Congress of Italian Canadians and it teamed up with the national congress in 1990, along with the CIAO, for the generations' attempts to get justice and fair settlements.

Our main objective is to take part in the negotiation process for Bill C-302.

Sal Mariani has been the past president for the last three years. He's here with me to help answer any questions. I'm the current president.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Good morning. It is a little strange to begin the meeting with you, because the bill is much bigger and only one small section deals with creating a commemorative stamp.

As you have read, Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history is a large bill.

We are presently dealing with one very specific element of the bill, that you have surely read in the final paragraph. It asks that:

5. The Minister of National Revenue shall instruct the Canada Post Corporation to issue a stamp or set of stamps to commemorate the internment of persons of Italian origin during the Second World War.

If this bill is passed, with that provision in it, can someone in the government give an instruction like that requiring Canada Post to issue the stamp?

[Robert Waite, Senior Vice-President, Corporate Social Responsibility, Canada Post Corporation]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My name is Robert Waite. I'm senior vice-president, corporate social responsibility, for Canada Post Corporation. I'm also the chair of the Canadian stamp advisory board. I'm joined here by Elia Anoia, who is manager of new products service and delivery. She's here to help me if I need any technical help, which is always possible.

Mr. Chairman, thank you for the invitation to appear here today. As chairman of Canada Post's Stamp Advisory Committee, I am very pleased to be here to outline Canada Post's stamp subject selection policy and to discuss stamps in general.

Canadian stamps are recognized internationally to be among the finest in the world. Canadian stamps have long been a source of pride for Canadians. Through our stamp program, we celebrate the remarkable heritage of our country, and we attempt to capture Canada and what it means to be Canadian and showcase that to the world. Canadian stamps celebrate and promote our history, our heroes, our leading personalities, and the achievements and passions of our people.

The selection of stamps is undertaken, like all operations at Canada Post, in a non-political manner and at arm's length from the government. Central to the stamp selection process is an invitation to all Canadians to participate through their suggestions for subjects to illustrate our stamps.

Every year, Canada Post receives between 500 and 600 different suggestions for subjects or events to be celebrated by a stamp or commemorative envelope. Only approximately 20 of the suggested subjects will eventually be honoured by a Canadian stamp and only two or three by a commemorative envelope. The Canada Post Board of Directors approves the annual stamp program on the recommendation of this national Stamp Advisory Committee.

Most countries have such a stamp advisory committee. Ours is formed of knowledgeable Canadians from across the country, selected for their historic, design, or philatelic knowledge. The committee was first established in 1969 to help guide the selection of Canadian stamps. Its composition reflects English-speaking and French-speaking populations, as well as the regional and ethnic diversity of the country.

The Stamp Advisory Committee evaluates suggestions for stamps using the following criteria.

First, the topics should appeal to broad segments of the Canadian population and encourage Canadians of all ages to buy and collect stamps.

Next, they should relate primarily to Canada and be of national significance. For example, they should evoke Canadian history, traditions, accomplishments, or natural heritage, or illustrate the social, cultural, political, or economic life of the country.

Often they commemorate people, their work, their birth, or an event in their lives. In this way, their outstanding contributions to Canada are recognized and celebrated.

The committee also favours stamps that enhance the high regard for Canadian stamps and Canada in national and international philatelic circles. In addition, Canada Post makes every effort to maintain regional and cultural balance in selecting subjects and designs so that stamps appropriately reflect all aspects of our nation.

I've brought with me copies of the 2009 and 2010 stamp programs to allow you to see examples of selected topics. Particularly popular ones include Canadian recording artists, our recent Remembrance Day stamp, and the 100th anniversary stamp for the Montreal Canadiens. Other significant and notable stamps include a stamp celebrating the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games and the 100th anniversary of the Canadian Navy.

The stamp selection process is a lengthy one. It involves a thorough review of hundreds of suggestions received. Once a topic is selected, time is needed for researching, designing, producing, and promoting these stamps.

Accordingly, we tell those who wish to propose stamp subjects that, at a minimum, they should submit their suggestions two years before the beginning of the desired year of issue. This is a very important consideration for those suggesting subjects related to anniversaries or any other time-sensitive events.

Suggestions for stamps come from a wide variety of proposers, which reflects the vast diversity of interests in the country. We have received a number of stamp suggestions related to past treatment of various ethnic groups, for example.

In regard to the topic at hand, the stamp provision of Bill C-302 let us look back at the context of World War II. At that time, a number of groups were subject to internment, including German Canadians, Italian Canadians, and Japanese Canadians, among others. Most recently, Ukrainian and Croatian Canadians have sent us similar types of stamp requests.

To date, and after careful consideration, the stamp advisory committee has not recommended any of these topics for inclusion in the program.

I would invite members to read the stamp subject selection policy brochure, which I have here with me and will circulate at the conclusion. I would also like to reinforce the fact that Canada Post is open to all suggestions for stamp topics and will diligently consider them when submitted.

Again, let me say thank you for having me here today to explain a program that is a tremendous source of pride for Canada Post and, I believe, for all Canadians.

I stand available for any questions that committee members may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 37th meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, pursuant to the order of reference of Friday, March 6, 2009, on Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

We're going to hear a short presentation from our witnesses from Canada Post and then we'll have one round of questioning. We're going to limit that to 20 minutes, if we can, so that we can move into the next session.

I'm going to ask Canada Post officials who are here this morning to introduce themselves, and I'm going to ask the second group of witnesses to announce themselves, too, because I'm not very good at Italian—no better than I am in French.

Canada Post, please go ahead.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

Pursuant to order made on Tuesday, June 2, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill C-302 under private members' business.

The House resumed from May 28 consideration of the motion that Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the hon. member for Peterborough for a very passionate and a great speech tonight. I may disagree with some of the opinions on what this bill would do, but I truly appreciated what he had to say.

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak tonight to Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history. The New Democrats and I are pleased to support this bill and to assist with its movement through Parliament.

Let me begin my speech this evening by telling the story of an Italian born Sudburian who was the victim of the government's internment policy.

Dr. Luigi Filippo Pancaro arrived in Canada in the late 1920s after graduating with his medical degree from the University of Rome. During the early 1930s, Dr. Pancaro and his wife settled in Sudbury with the large Italian community and became a member of the staff at the Sudbury regional hospital. In addition to joining the hospital staff, Dr. Pancaro also opened a private practice and became the family doctor for many members of the Italian community. On June 11, 1940, Dr. Pancaro was suddenly and without reason pulled away from a patient he was seeing, placed in the back of a police van and transported to the Sudbury jail.

Dr. Pancaro's abduction occurred a day after Italy had declared war on Canada. The evening before he was taken away in a police van, Prime Minister Mackenzie King ordered the internment of hundreds of Italian Canadians identified by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as enemy aliens. Once Dr. Pancaro reached the Sudbury jail, he was locked in a cell with many other Italian born men, most of them his patients. Dr. Pancaro was part of a group of Italians that were sent to the internment camp in Petawawa, situated in the Ottawa Valley, where he remained for two years.

The roundup of Italian Canadians was virtually completed by October 1940. Most of them were sent to Camp Petawawa. It is difficult to establish exactly how many Italian Canadians were interned, although estimates range from 600 to 700.

After that bitter experience, Dr. Pancaro returned to Italy to practise medicine. He did ultimately return to Sudbury in 1956 where he continued his successful medical practice until 1981.

The facts are simple, that people of Italian origin like Dr. Pancaro were subject to internment at the hands of the government during World War II and that this act of persecution was carried out upon these people for no reason other than their Italian origins. The internment of Italians during World War II has been acknowledged but never redressed officially in the House of Commons. This bill provides an opportunity to do what should have been done long ago with dignity.

To be clear, there have been steps taken to make amends for the disgraceful treatment of Italian Canadians. In 1990, the National Congress of Italian Canadians outlined the injustices in a brief sent to then Prime Minister Mulroney. The brief outlined the desire for an acknowledgement of the injustice, compensation paid and an apology. The PM did indeed apologize in 1990. He mentioned repatriations, and former Prime Minister Paul Martin also promised repatriations. Sadly, many of the commitments were empty promises. Despite these words, money has never really flowed and although money was announced with great fanfare and media attention, successive governments did not follow up on honouring their pledges and ensuring that Italian Canadians could access these funds.

Though Italian Canadians had to endure tremendous hardships 70 years ago, they were not thwarted in their drive to incorporate themselves into Canadian communities across the country and to become leaders in their own right in the promotion of Italian heritage and culture.

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize some of the tremendous contributions that certain organizations and individuals have made in my riding of Sudbury toward the promotion of Italian heritage and culture.

Sudbury is lucky to host the Caruso Club, one of the largest Italian associations in all of Ontario. Formed in 1947, the Caruso Club is a not-for-profit organization with a goal to promote, enhance and preserve Italian culture and heritage within the Canadian multicultural mosaic, to render assistance to persons of Italian nationality in need and to establish and maintain a library and archives of Italian heritage.

I would like to offer thanks to the current board of directors: Sav Doni, John Santagapita, Egidio Manoni, Linda Zanatta-Beaudoin, Danilo Monticelli, Lina Sanchioni, Bob Armiento, Ugo Rocca and board president, Tony Nero for the club's continued contributions and support for the local community. Felix Santacapita, who passed away a few years ago, is another one of the many committed community members who gave countless hours at the Caruso Club.

One of the largest events the club organizes is the annual Italian festival. During this four day event, Sudburians have the opportunity of participating in a variety of events and presentations, including sporting events like cycling, soccer, and bocce tournaments and the Ms. Caruso pageant, an event my daughter Trinity is excited to take part in this year. She is able to do that, as my wife is from Italian ancestry.

A key organizer behind this event is Ms. Benita Dellece. Benita has played a tremendous role in increasing the community's awareness and appreciation of Sudbury's Italian community through her efforts in organizing this event. In addition to the Italian pageant, she has played a huge role in educating hundreds of Sudburians about the city's rich Italian heritage and culture.

Another important member of the Sudbury and Italian community is John Fera, who was recently re-elected as president of the United Steelworkers Local 6500. Mr. Fera has spent many hours around the bargaining table advocating for his union brothers and sisters, and he continues the legacy of outspoken and community-driven Italians in Sudbury.

There is precedence for official apologies in the House of Commons. Given that official apologies in the House of Commons have been offered for past actions of the Canadian government to Canadians of Japanese origin, first nations, Canadians of Chinese origin and other communities, I urge all members to join me in voting in favour of sending Bill C-302 to committee.

The New Democrats have stood against internment and the War Measures Act for decades. We will stand again in support of this bill to ensure that Italian Canadians are given the formal apology that is so long overdue and that the wrongs committed nearly 70 years ago can be righted.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I spoke in French and I may have made some mistakes, but I said nothing that was seriously wrong. I spoke of the wrongs done by the Canadian government to its citizens, not citizens of another country, but its own citizens.

They are citizens. One becomes a Canadian to become a Canadian. One is either born here, like many of my cousins and aunts and uncles, or they acquire citizenship by virtue of their residence, their responsibility and their civic duty toward this country. That is how one becomes a Canadian. One does not then become a subject of an enemy nation.

When my colleague from Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel proposes this legislation, my compliments go to him. My compliments also go to my colleague from Vancouver Kingsway who also stood on behalf of the NDP and said that he and his party supported the legislation because they understood the basic concept behind it and that they applaud the initiative of the member from Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel”.

I had the privilege of being around the cabinet table when this proposal, enunciated in Bill C-302, was put on the table. What the member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel says is that the Government of Canada should honour the commitment that it made to the four representative institutions of the Italian Canadian community in the country. There was the Canadian Italian Business and Professional Association and the Congress of Italian Canadians.

There was also the Italian-Canadian Community Foundation in Quebec.

Finally, there was the Order Sons of Italy. All four organizations negotiated for the better part of 10 months in order to come up with what is called the ACE program.

The Government of Canada fell in 2006 and the current government took up this and said that it would not give them what they signed on to. It was not going to respect the contract the Government of Canada signed with the representatives of the community, the contract that called for a sum that was considerably higher than what has been proposed by the government, and, by the way, it would flow through this organization in order to establish a foundation to achieve the educational objectives, to achieve the commemorative programs and to gauge awareness for all of the country.

However, it did not close the door to individual considerations by the estates of the 632 individuals who were unjustly interned. They were never charged and no laws were broken. They were never given any indication as to why they were there except that they were citizens of an enemy nation. They were Canadian citizens.

I ask to be forgiven if I get excited about this but it is because we are talking about the human rights and the citizenship rights of everyone.

[Member spoke in Italian]

[English]

The Government of Canada has made excuses to others and has apologized. It is not a novel thing. We are not leaving ourselves open to any kind of legal liabilities by making an apology.

[Member spoke in Italian]

If a person is a Canadian citizen, it is of little importance where one came from or what political party one belongs to. One is a citizen, and that is all. So if apologies have already been given to other citizens, there is a need to apologize to the Italians as well. Why?

We should think about this for a moment. Six hundred and thirty-two families were disrupted during the war because the political situation in the world at the time dictated a circumstance that nobody here wanted, and yet the people of Italian origin who were here were automatically put on guard as subjects of an enemy nation.

A cousin of mine was in the Royal Navy and yet the entire family was under police surveillance for the duration of the war.

A former member of this House, whom we know well, had a brother enlisted in the RCAF and a family under police surveillance.

Nobody said, “Sorry, we made an error”. Nobody said that we were enemies of Canada. Nobody ever said that the Italian community committed an injustice toward the people, the country and the Government of Canada but they were interned and jobs were lost.

[Member spoke in Italian]

[English]

It is right that this legislation calls, at the very least, on the Government of Canada to respect the agreement signed by the Government of Canada in 2005 with the four institutions that represent the Italian community in Canada. That is the starting point. It is not the closing point.

I compliment the member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel for having brought this legislation to this point in the House. He deserves compliments and he deserves support, not negative criticism.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-302 is an act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their enemy alien designation and internment during the second world war and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian Canadian history. This is the fourth time the bill has been introduced. It was previously introduced in three sessions of Parliament. I am very glad to see that it is back, and I am prepared, certainly, to support it.

I will give some historical background. In 1939, special wartime powers were given to the Canadian Minister of Justice to prevent the subversion of Canadian interests and loyalties. Italian Canadians were designated enemy aliens by the Government of Canada, and following Italy's declaration of war on June 10, 1940, our government ordered the internment of many of these so-called enemy aliens.

Between 600 and 700 Italian Canadians were reportedly interned as a result. Most were sent to Camp Petawawa on the Ottawa River.

Italian Canadians were required to register with the RCMP and report on a monthly basis. Travel restrictions were imposed. The teaching of the Italian language was declared illegal, as were various Italian organizations. Boycotts of Italian Canadian-owned and -run businesses started and many Italian Canadians lost their jobs.

In 1990, as my hon. friend who spoke just before me indicated, the National Congress of Italian Canadians briefed then Prime Minister Mulroney on these injustices and called for an apology and compensation. An apology was delivered and the money was announced but was not delivered.

Funding was announced again in June 2008 through Citizenship and Immigration Canada's community historical recognition program. I heard my hon. friend who spoke before me say that the Conservatives say the bill is shameful. I think that was his exact description. He was talking about money to come, but to date, the program's website lists no funds granted for projects related to the treatment of Italian Canadians during World War II.

I will talk briefly about Thunder Bay. Italian Canadians have a very long history in Thunder Bay. In fact, the Italian community was established in the late 19th century. The 1901 census shows 197 persons of Italian origin in Port Arthur and Fort William combined. By 1931, that community had grown to 2,500 people. Italian Canadians remain one of the largest ethnic communities in Thunder Bay, indeed one of the largest ethnic communities right across my riding of Thunder Bay—Rainy River.

I am a proud member of the Societa' Italiana Di Benevolenza Principe Di Piemonte. I am very happy to say, just to illustrate the longevity and how important Italian Canadians have been to Thunder Bay and to my riding, that this society started in 1909. This is the 100th anniversary of that society. It was started by a small group of Italian immigrants who wanted their heritage to stay alive in this new country that they had come to call their own.

The goal of their society was to promote and maintain good fellowship and the highest level of citizenship within members and the community.

A further goal of their society was the promotion and enhancement of Italian custom and culture in all its endeavours. This society and I am sure Italian societies right across this country have lived up to these ideals and continue to live up to these ideals and show how valuable their community is to Canada.

I would like to note that in September 1939, three days after German troops had invaded Poland, the Principe di Piemonte passed a motion pledging its loyalty to Canada. I have already outlined the historical background of what happened after that.

I would also like to mention the Canadian Italian Business and Professional Association of Thunder Bay that was incorporated in 1993. It promotes the recreational, cultural, social, artistic business and professional activities of Italian Canadians in Thunder Bay and the surrounding area. It encourages the participation of Italian Canadians in the economic and public affairs of that region and Canada.

What I am really trying to get at with this description is the importance and value that I am sure all of us in the House and right across this country see, not only in our immigrant population in general, but in particular today with our Italian immigrants. I believe that Canada would be a much poorer place without the contribution of Italian Canadians.

I would be willing to speak with the member later as to whether in fact the funds have flowed. I do not believe they have. As I said on the website, no funds are listed relating to projects associated with the treatment of Italian Canadians during World War II.

The Conservatives say that this bill is shameful. We can easily pass it with the co-operation of everyone in the House and, with the apology that has already taken place, we could ensure that the money that has been announced on numerous occasions is finally delivered.

The House resumed from March 24 consideration of the motion that Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am quite honoured to rise to speak on Bill C-302, which was introduced in the House by my colleague from Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel. As an Italian citizen, I am proud that a member of my caucus has introduced this piece of legislation.

I would like to read a statement that was issued yesterday, March 23, 2009, in Montreal, by the National Congress of Italian Canadians, responding to the Conservative government's announcement regarding the community historical recognition program. It is entitled, “A Shameful Attempt to Divide and Conquer”.

The National Congress of Italian Canadians (NCIC) deplores the manner in which the minister of immigration, citizenship and multiculturalism...has chosen to bypass the legitimate community organizations who have been negotiating with the Government in good faith to arrive at a fair and equitable resolution on the issue of redress for the internment of Italian Canadians during World War II. The establishment of an advisory committee within the Community Historical Recognition program is an attempt to create division within the Italian Canadian community.

“The NCIC does not in any way consider that this program and the establishment of an advisory committee settle the community's historical claims on the issue of internment,” said Michael Stante, President of the National Congress of Italian Canadians.

The Agreement in principle of November 12, 2005, between the Government of Canada and the Italian Canadian Community, as represented by the National Congress of Italian Canadians, the National Federation of Canadian Italian Business and Professional Associations, the Order Sons of Italy and the Fondation communautaire canadienne-italienne, did answer the concerns of our community. That agreement, reached within the parameters of the ACE program, provided a settlement in the sum of $12.5 million to be administered by the community through the NCIC Foundation. This would be in keeping with the administrative process which has been put in place for the Ukrainian-Canadian community. Unfortunately, the current Canadian Government unilaterally breached the Agreement without notice nor consultation and introduced a new program which is totally unacceptable to our community.

Mr. Speaker, you have told me my time is virtually up. In the next part, where I am able to complete my time, I will finish reading this statement. However, I would like to take five seconds to underline the contribution of the Liberal member for Etobicoke Centre, who worked on the development of the ACE program.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak tonight to Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

The New Democrats are pleased to support this bill and to help move this through Parliament.

On September 3, 1939, the Government of Canada issued regulations that empowered the minister of justice with the full authority to act as he chose to destroy any sign of subdivision during a time of war. This allowed him to detain, without trial, any person and created a class of aliens who were not foreign nationals but were Canadian citizens.

On June 10, 1940, Italy declared war on Canada. That very evening Prime Minister Mackenzie King announced that he had ordered the internment of hundreds of Italian Canadians identified by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as enemy aliens. That order was applied to Italians who became British subjects after September 1, 1922.

The government also established a judicial mechanism to administer internment proceedings. It passed an order in council which ensured the registration of all people of Italian birth. Furthermore the office of the custodian of alien property was authorized to confiscate the property of enemy aliens.

Like the internment of Japanese Canadians, Ukrainian Canadians, German Canadians and others, the forced registration and internment of Italian Canadians is a sad chapter in our history.

The RCMP rounded up approximately 700 Italian Canadians, often separating fathers from their children and husbands from their families. Seventeen thousand people were designated as enemy aliens in our country for no reason other than their birth.

There was no reason to suspect that those interned posed any threat to Canada or Canadians. In fact, many of them were first world war veterans who had fought for their adopted country. It was not uncommon for instance for men in uniform to come back home only to find that family members were interned.

The round-up of Italian Canadians was virtually completed by October 1940. Most of them were sent to Camp Petawawa situated in the Ottawa River Valley. It is difficult to establish exactly how many Italian Canadians were interned, although estimates range from 600 to 700.

Although the majority of those interned were from the areas of highest concentrations of Italian Canadians at that time, Montreal, Toronto and other centres in Ontario, there were also documented cases from western Canada.

Internment was brutal. Families could not visit or write interned people for the first year. Italian Canadians were penalized financially. A spontaneous boycott of Italian businesses whipped up by the prejudices of the times took place throughout Canada and provincial governments ordered municipalities to terminate relief payments to non-naturalized Italians. Travel restrictions were imposed on Italian Canadians. Their ability to occupy certain jobs was prohibited. Italian Canadians were forced to report on a monthly basis to the RCMP. Activities such as the teaching of the Italian language and meetings of the Roma Society were declared illegal.

Internment was for up to three years and the average interned person was held for almost sixteen months. To put some feelings to this, these are not just numbers. The people interned were doctors, lawyers, carpenters, bakers, contractors and priests. For families, of course, it was just as bad if not worse. These actions added to the psychological scars inflicted by constant harassment and ridicule from neighbours and co-workers and the fearmongering being perpetrated by elected officials.

The federal government went further. It froze bank accounts. It forced Italian Canadian families to subsist on $12 a month. Many Italian families were forced to sell homes, businesses and valuable assets.

Despite this, a number of Italian Canadians enlisted in the Canadian armed forces, some in an attempt to remove the stigma associated with the term “illegal alien”. Not one person was ever charged with sabotage or any act of disloyalty. We must acknowledge and make amends for that black chapter in Canadian history.

In 1990 the National Congress of Italian-Canadians outlined these injustices in a brief sent to then Prime Minister Mulroney. It wanted the injustice acknowledged, compensation paid and an apology.

Various steps have been taken to acknowledge and make amends for this disgraceful treatment. Former Prime Minister Mulroney did indeed apologize in 1990. He spoke about reparations. Former Prime Minister Paul Martin also promised reparations. Sadly, many of these commitments were simply empty promises. Despite these words, money has never really flown.

Money was announced with great fanfare and media attention, but successive governments did not think it was worthwhile to dedicate the time and energy to follow up on honouring their pledges and ensuring that Italian Canadians could access these funds.

In June 2008, just prior to the election I might add, the minister of Canadian heritage announced $5 million through a community historical recognition program that was specifically targeted to the Italian community for monuments, plaques, and community recognition projects around this issue.

I have spoken to members in the Italian Canadian community and to the National Congress of Italian-Canadians. Many did not even know about this fund; even fewer have applied for access to it. I cannot locate anybody who has received $1 from this fund, despite the fact that it was announced.

New Democrats support the bill because it seeks to raise awareness, educate our young people, and ensure that we never forget the terrible steps that we took in the name of national security. We must remember our actions during times of war because we face similar issues today.

It is not very long ago that we saw the actions of former President George Bush in the United States, in fact, actions that were copied by the previous Conservative and Liberal governments. We are well advised to guard our civil liberties today and in times of war or apprehended insurrection, because those are the times when our civil liberties are at risk.

These Italian victims would want this and their descendants today want this. We have a new term today for what happened in 1940, it is called racial profiling. People were rounded up simply because of their ethnicity. There is a lesson in that, when racial profiling is going on in 2009 in this country. We had better be vigilant to make sure that we stop it here today.

I would like to mention a few people who have done a great amount of work in this area. Mr. Elio Quattrocchi is a tireless and respected member of the Italian Canadian community in Vancouver. I want to speak about the people who work at Casa Serena, a home for seniors who come together in culture and recreation. I want to mention the thriving businesses on Commercial Drive, run by the same Italian entrepreneurs who were rounded up in 1940. I would like to mention the tireless efforts of the National Congress of Italian-Canadians.

There are other people, too. I would like to mention Mr. Victor Wong from the Chinese Canadian National Council, who has fought for redress and is still fighting for redress for full and adequate compensation for the families of Chinese head tax payers.

I was not in the last Parliament, but I understand the power of apology, redress and acknowledgment. I am told that during the residential schools apology, this was one of the most moving moments ever felt by members of Parliament.

The New Democrats and the CCF have stood alone in this country over the decades against internment and the War Measures Act and in favour of civil liberties. We New Democrats will do so again today and are proud to do it. We will stand and support this bill to ensure that Italian Canadians--

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise today on Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history. Bill C-302 is intended to right the wrongs that were done through the internment of Canadians of Italian origin during the second world war. The Bloc Québécois will support Bill C-302 and will also support the necessary restitution.

Italians started to migrate to Canada around 1880 and settled all over the country. Many came to Montreal and that is why Our Lady of Defense parish was established in 1910 to serve the community in its own language.

Our Lady of Defense church is located in the heart of Little Italy in my riding of Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie and is considered the oldest church still standing that was built expressly for the Italian community in Montreal. More than 2,000 Quebeckers of Italian origin still live in the riding of Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie and their community has made many contributions to it over the years.

The RCMP began to investigate Italians living in Canada in 1935 when Mussolini invaded and occupied Ethiopia. At the time, there were as many as 3,000 members of the Italian fascist party in Canada.

On June 10, 1940, Italy declared war on Canada. Immediately thereafter, Prime Minister MacKenzie King ordered the internment of many Italians living in Canada, using the War Measures Act. This legislation allowed the government to take all measures necessary to ensure Canada’s national security against enemies within our borders. The Minister of Justice could therefore detain anyone who posed any kind of threat to national security. This decision by the federal government enabled the Canadian authorities to intern all nationals or immigrants from enemy countries.

After Canada entered the war against Italy, the RCMP quickly took steps to restrict the liberties and activities of Italians in Canada. All persons born in Italy had to register with the authorities. Some were forced to report monthly. They could not move about freely within Canada and had to carry identity cards with them at all times. All Italian associations were closed. As many as 700 Italian Canadians were interned in camps for the duration of the war. Most of these internees came from towns in Ontario and Quebec. Some spent two or three months there, others several years.

It is important to remember our history. In addition, there was a general boycott of Italian businesses all across Canada.

The Italian Canadians affected by these measures were never accused of anything or found guilty of anything. They were greatly penalized even though they were innocent. The measures taken by the government of the time were an injustice to Italian Canadians. I want to say that today.

This is why the Bloc Québécois feels that this community deserves apologies. What is more, there is already a precedent for it: the Canadians of Japanese origin who were interned during World War II.

The internment of Italian Canadians is similar to the treatment of Canadian citizens of Japanese origin during the second world war. Like the Italians, their first waves of immigration date back to the 19th century. These immigrants were often poor, and spoke neither French nor English. After Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the Canadian government's immediate reaction was to confiscate the fishing boats of the Japanese Canadian residents of British Columbia.

On February 26, 1942, the Canadian Department of Defence declared that all Canadians of Japanese origin, regardless of whether they were or were not recent arrivals, were considered enemy aliens. People of Japanese origin were relocated to detention camps in the B.C. interior, in Alberta and in Manitoba.

Because of this injustice, in September 1988, the federal government decided to offer its apologies to Canadians of Japanese origin who had been interned in the detention camps.

Of course there were far more Japanese Canadian internees than Italian Canadians . Nonetheless we feel that what is good for the one has to be good for the other. The Japanese precedent leads us believe that apologies must in fact be made to Italian Canadians. What is more, that case can serve as an example for the compensation to be offered to a foundation for commemoration purposes.

The Bloc Québécois is therefore in favour of Bill C-302 in principle. We recognize the wrong done to Italian Canadians during the second world war. The war measures legislation sent numerous innocent people to the internment camps. We therefore support the principle of an apology and some compensation for Italian Canadians.

However, on November 12, 2005, the Government of Canada and the Italian community in Canada reached an agreement in principle.

That agreement in principle was drafted jointly by the Canadian government and the Italian community, and acknowledged that there would be no apology or compensation. According to that agreement, the government set aside $25 million over three years for the Canadian Heritage multiculturalism program. The purpose of that program is to encourage the recognition and commemoration of ethnocultural communities affected by wartime measures.

In addition, the government planned to provide the National Congress of Italian Canadians Foundation with $2.5 million under the acknowledgement, commemoration and education program

Bill C-302 does not specify the amounts of compensation to be paid. This is why we would like to see this bill studied in committee in order to determine the amount to be paid, taking into consideration what the Canadian government has already paid out.

Our party is very pleased today to support Bill C-302. We are anxious to have an opportunity to debate it in parliamentary committee.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I know this is a passionate issue for the member who has moved the bill. The government has shown over the last few years, in terms of redress, apology, and acknowledgement of where we as a country. In some dark moments, we have made some mistakes and we have acknowledged those mistakes. I would ask him only the same that he has asked of everyone in this House, and that is to treat this as an issue that is not partisan but as an issue that is a private member's bill.

I will note that in his speech he did certainly point out a number of issues that were critical of the government, so while he did respond in his answers in a way that suggests non-partisanship, it may do him a bit of good to have a look at his speech, reread it, and have a clear understanding that it too holds facts regarding partisanship. If we are going to work through this issue, it has to be the same on all sides.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to rise and speak to Bill C-302, an act to recognize the historic injustice done to Italian Canadians who were interned during World War II.

Let me begin by saying that, with over 1.4 million members, the Italian Canadian community has made an enormous contribution to the building of our nation. In the trades, in the professions and through their rich and colourful culture, Italian Canadians have made an indelible mark on our vibrant, ethnically diverse society.

The internment of 632 people of Italian origin as enemy aliens during the second world war was unquestionably a dark moment in our country's history. Families were separated and civil liberties were denied. Even those not interned were required to register with the local police.

Measures have already been taken to recognize the historical experiences of this community related to the second world war internment. We have chosen to take a comprehensive, forward-looking approach to recognizing the historical experiences of communities affected by wartime measures, including the Italian Canadian community.

That is why on June 22, 2006, our government announced that it would create the community historical recognition program and the national historical recognition program. This government is taking an inclusive approach. We have created a program that will provide funding to all groups that were subject to unjust wartime detention or immigration restrictions.

Formally established in 2008, the community historical recognition program is a grants and contributions program, funded by $29 million over a period of four years. It supports projects, for example, that acknowledge and commemorate the experience of ethnocultural communities affected by wartime measures and immigration restrictions or prohibitions that were applied in Canada; increase awareness and educate Canadians about the experiences of these communities; and finally, highlight the contributions the affected communities made to the building of our country. Projects eligible for funding include: monuments, commemorative plaques, educational materials and exhibits.

The national historical recognition program is a $5 million program that funds federal initiatives focused on increasing awareness and educating all Canadians, especially our youth, to educate them about Canada's history linked to wartime measures and immigration restrictions or prohibitions. This is twice the amount the previous government agreed to in the agreement in principle signed in the final days of that government.

Our government is focused on working with members of all communities that were affected by discriminatory measures. We welcome input from everyone and we are happy to work with our community partners. Since elected, this government has become more open and inclusive. Everything from our measures to increase accountability and transparency to our active outreach to members of cultural communities has shown that all of us in this House are committed to working with Canadians from all backgrounds.

Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to this country, they were accepted by the Canadian people and they had the opportunity to work hard, build their lives, and raise their children in a welcoming environment. Native-born Canadians respected the culture of our newcomers.

To this day, in my region of Niagara we celebrate our cultural diversity during the annual folk arts festival, which our government has contributed to generously. Indeed, last year it gave it the largest federal contribution it has ever received. With the help of this government, all of the people of the Niagara region have the opportunity to celebrate their diverse cultures, from Dutch to Scottish, from Polish to Somalian, to Italian, representing the mosaic that is my community.

On the national level, our government has been solidly committed to celebrating Canada's multicultural heritage. Whether native cultures, settler cultures or those who immigrated later, our government is committed to celebrating the accomplishments of everyone who has helped to build our country.

We are also committed to recognizing instances when in fact we did not live up to our high ideals and treated people poorly based on their ancestry or culture. That is why we launched the community historical recognition program and are committed to recognizing past instances of concern, and working with members of affected communities to give appropriate recognition to these instances.

Since the announcement of this program in 2006, representatives of this government have met and been in discussions with the Italian Canadian community. For instance, the former minister of Canadian heritage met with representatives of the community in November 2006, provided an overview of the community historical recognition program, and gave the community an opportunity to express its views on historical recognition.

The current Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, in his previous capacity as secretary of state for multiculturalism, has also had several discussions with Italian Canadian representatives and through the community historical recognition program this government has made available over $5 million in grants and contributions over four years to fund projects that commemorate and recognize the experience and experiences of Italian Canadians in relation to the second world war internment in our country.

This $5 million is twice as much as was in the agreement in principle of the previous government. This program is currently accepting funding applications. In fact, the deadline for submitting an application is May 22 of this year and I would encourage any interested groups to submit their applications in terms of their requests.

One more important component of this program is the establishment of individual advisory committees composed of community representatives. These committees ensure that the program is responsive to the sensitivities of communities and that their views are reflected in the types of projects that are selected for funding.

I am pleased to observe that the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism has appointed an advisory committee of Italian Canadian community representatives to provide advice to him on the merits of the projects. I heard from the member and if there are concerns or if there is work to be done on this committee, I offer it to him today. I extend my hand to try to work with him to make that advisory a strong functioning entity. I am certainly prepared to meet with him on that issue.

Through programs such as the community historical recognition program and the national historical recognition program, we are working to ensure that our nation's history is reflective of the valuable contribution that all ethnocultural communities, including Italian Canadians, have made to the building of our country.

It is important and imperative that at the end of the day we are an inclusive government and whether we sit on the government side or in opposition, that we work together to ensure that we are an inclusive group that leads our country from Ottawa.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

moved that Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present my private member's bill, Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

The historical context of this bill is broad and complex, but I will try nevertheless to explain briefly, despite the little time I have, the importance of passing this bill.

Needless to say with a surname like Pacetti and a first name like Massimo, my Italian origins are no secret.

This bill is not just about Italians; it is about making a wrong into a right for all Canadians. The purpose of this bill is to demonstrate that Canada's history is not much different from one era to another, including the stories of one immigrant group versus another.

Canada was and continues to be the promise of a land that offers opportunity, where the principles of peace, order and good government triumph over the chaos of war, corruption and poverty. Ours is a country that offers hope, freedom, prosperity, or simply a better life to thousands of people who just need to be given a fair chance to succeed.

Without history we have no future, and to ignore our history is even worse in that we deny our existence.

My bill, this bill, claims, simply, recognition of the injustices committed in the 1940s and the restoration of justice.

On June 10, 1940 Italy declared war on the free world. Though it was painful for some Italian Canadians to think of Italy as the enemy because of the family they left behind, their loyalty was to Canada, but to the Government of Canada this did not matter. Italian Canadians were still designated as enemy aliens in spite of the fact that a year earlier a report by Norman Robertson to justice minister Ernest Lapointe in 1939, the year before the internment of Italian Canadians commenced, made several recommendations against internment claiming that a large majority of Italian Canadians were not disloyal to this country. Robertson felt that it would not be in the public interest to recommend their immediate arrest at the outbreak of an eventual war between Canada and Italy and that any arrest on the grounds of disloyalty must be based on evidence and must be corroborated with proof that the individual in question was likely to act in a manner prejudicial to public safety. However, it has become clear over the years that individuals were in fact arrested on speculation alone.

What happened next was that the prime minister of the day, W. L. Mackenzie King, invoked the War Measures Act and took to the airwaves to issue the following statement: “The Minister of Justice has authorized the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to take steps to intern all residents of Italian origin, whose activities have given ground for the belief or reasonable suspicion that they might, in time of war, endanger the safety of the state”.

It was with these words that the nightmare began for many. Imagine, Canadians, some of Italian origin, others whose names sounded Italian, or just because they had Italian friends were designated as enemy aliens. They were forced by the RCMP to register their names and report to the RCMP on a monthly basis. In some cases travel restrictions were imposed upon them. Others had their assets seized by the state, while various Italian organizations were declared illegal, as was the teaching of the Italian language.

It was common for police forces to arrest and detain individuals they deemed to be security risks for no reason. These actions were enforced randomly based solely on ethnicity and affected anyone whose name ended in a vowel. This meant that Italians and non-Italians alike had to spend nights in jail.

These measures caused severe damage to the psyche of Italian communities in Canada. Within the Italian community there was a tremendous respect for authority and therefore a tendency to defer to authority figures, even in incidents where there were abuses. This was compounded by the fact that Italians simply wanted to fit in to their new homeland and be viewed as good Canadians by their compatriots. While there was a certain degree of indignation within the community, they mostly felt shame, so they suffered in silence.

But this bill does not only speak to those individuals. This bill speaks to the most tragic part of the story. It is the story of over 1,000 persons of Italian origin. I speak of those who were subjected to internment in prison camps, mainly in Petawawa, picked up in the middle of the night, put on a train and sent to prison camps. To those who were never charged, just detained and harassed, the toll that internment took on those individuals and their families is too great to do justice in such a limited amount of time, but their story must be told.

One may ask, what are a few hundred or a thousand people?

First, it is the untold story of an entire community that suffered, a story where many professionals of Italian origin at that time were too embarrassed or scared to be seen as they were, which is Italian, causing many of them to change their names. This dealt a crippling blow to the burgeoning Italian community as a generation of leaders was lost to them.

Second, let us remember the time in history that we are dealing with. During the internment most of those arrested were males, many of whom were the head of their household and the sole breadwinner for their family, which in the late 1930s and early 1940s was far more crippling to a family than it would be today. They were taken away from their families without reason. Mothers and children were left behind to fend for themselves in a land they were still trying to comprehend. They were left on their own with no social programs, no community based organizations, no charter of rights. There was a language barrier. Many were illiterate. There was no government to turn to. Such a dire situation befalling Canadian residents is unthinkable to Canadians today, but this was not the worst of it.

While the detainees were put to work on forced labour projects, such as the construction of roads and the clearing of land, many of their families, already stigmatized by the broader community, isolated themselves from other people of Italian origin as well. In order not to be viewed as a family in dire straits, many families turned inward to avoid further shame. The burden they bore was the heaviest of all, and I ask this chamber, for what reason?

Why? That the government of the day was shaken by the war is understandable, but it cannot justify the fact that people like James Franceschini were taken from their family. When Mr. Franceschini arrived in Canada in 1906, at the age of 15, he was penniless and spoke no English. He found work and saved what it took to set up his own excavation firm. He became Canada's largest road contractor.

When Canada went to war, Mr. Franceschini founded Dufferin Shipbuilding Company in order to build for the government what was probably the least expensive minesweepers in the country. When Italy declared war with Canada, the government seized the business, arrested James Franceschini and interned him in a camp as the subject of an enemy country.

Like Mr. Franceschini, most of the internees were people who were important in their community. Their arrest was to serve as an example to other Italian Canadians. The government's action also led ordinary citizens to attack Italians. Italian Canadian businesses were boycotted and employees were ostracized by their colleagues and fired by their employer. Even Italian gravestones were vandalized.

However, despite the blows to Italian Canadians during the war, there is no doubt as to their loyalty to Canada. The community made a significant contribution to the war effort. Many young men volunteered for combat in the Canadian armed forces, and young Italian women supported the war effort through their work for the Canadian Red Cross.

Since World War II, and in the decades after the internment, Italian Canadians continued to embrace Canada just as they had prior. The dream of integrating into their new homeland was pursued anew and the contributions they have made to Canadian society in fields such as arts, politics, business, sports, science, the humanities and any other sector one could think of has been of great benefit to Canada.

It is also true that Canadians have become aware of issues pertaining to human rights and cultural diversity over the years and, as a result, the inherent injustice of the actions taken against people of Italian origin as a result of being designated “enemy aliens” is evident to all Canadians who are aware of this issue.

As we are more enlightened now than we once were, I think that resistance to addressing this issue is nothing short of ridiculous. We know what happened and we know that what happened was wrong, so I have one question. Since 1940, why has a Canadian prime minister not stood in this chamber and apologized?

The Government of Canada has issued official apologies through the prime minister and this House of Commons to groups such as Chinese Canadians, Indian Canadians, Aboriginal Canadians and Japanese Canadians who were also interned during World War II, and our country has been strengthened in each instance because we did the right thing. Why will we not do the same for Italian Canadians? Why does the government continue to pit groups against each other for justice and recognition? Is there a moratorium on doing the right thing that I am not aware of or does the government believe that the injustice visited upon Italian Canadians during World War II was too insignificant to warrant a proper apology?

This is an apology for Canadians by Canadians. It is time for the Government of Canada to do the right thing and offer an apology in the House of Commons for the internment of persons of Italian origin during World War II.

This is why, in essence, we must pass this bill. As the member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, a riding that has the highest concentration of people of Italian extraction in the country, I can assure you that my electors and my community feel the situation has gone on long enough and must be resolved once and for all.

The Italian community is united on this issue. They have been patient, and perhaps too patient as there are very few, if any, individuals alive out there today who were interned, but many of their children who also bore the brunt of this injustice and experienced this firsthand are still with us. Any action taken to address the suffering caused by the internment of their parents would be more meaningful if we could look them in the eye when that action is taken.

It would be tragic if we continued to allow a generation of Canadians to remain unaware of their own history. For better or for worse, it is our history and we must claim ownership of it. The longer we wait, the more difficult it will be to reclaim it. Soon it will be lost to us forever and with this the opportunity to better ourselves. Time is not on our side in this instance.

Again, this would not only be for the benefit of one ethnic community but for our entire country. If history has taught us anything, it is that those who forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.

One wonderful thing about Canada is that it is a brave country. We have always had enough courage to look at ourselves objectively, recognize our flaws, own up to our mistakes and take up difficult challenges before they become too immense to handle. Every time we have done so, our country has benefited immensely.

This is why my bill proposes that the Government of Canada officially recognizes, apologizes and provides restitution that should be based on the agreement in place, signed on November 12, 2005 between the Government of Canada and the Italian Canadian community of which the signatories were the National Congress of Italian-Canadians, the National Federation of Canadian Italian Business and Professional Association, the Order Sons of Italy of Canada and La Fondation communautaire canadienne italienne du Québec which called for the Government of Canada to pay $12.5 million in restitution to the Italian Canadian community for the internment of Italian Canadians during World War II.

I am sure we can correct the error that the internment of Italian Canadians represents. To this end, I propose the production of educational materials relating to Italian-Canadian history and promoting ethnic and racial harmony and also providing an account of internments during the second world war and of the contributions Italian Canadians made to the advancement of Canada.

I propose as well that a stamp or series of stamps be issued by Canada Post. This would be the ideal way to make this story known across the country, since the process is simple, established and requires no additional investment.

I will close on a more personal note. My personal story is but a footnote in the ever-growing book of Canadian history but it is indicative of the progress Canadians of Italian origin have made over the years as a result of living in such a wonderful country.

This story does have a dark chapter that stands starkly in contrast with all the others. I say it is time to write a new ending to this chapter. Even if it is 69 years after the fact, we must acknowledge, apologize and redress the wrongs of the past so we can turn the page once and for all on this dark chapter in Canadian history.

I am a proud Canadian, born and bred, but I do not see this as being my battle but my country's battle to win the war against the most insidious enemy there is, and that is apathy. It is what stops a good person from being moved to fight against what they know is wrong. I have the honour of going to work every day and serving my country while honouring my heritage. My constituents and community have put their faith in me and I must always be willing to stand up against what I know is wrong to justify their trust.

All I am doing here today is standing up against what I know is wrong and I hope the good people who fill this chamber choose to stand with me.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-302, An Act to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table a bill to recognize the injustice that was done to persons of Italian origin through their “enemy alien” designation and internment during the Second World War, and to provide for restitution and promote education on Italian-Canadian history. The history is too long to explain and get into details at this time but that will be done at second reading.

However, during the Second World War, immigrants and Canadians of Italian origin were incarcerated and designated as enemy aliens. I tabled the same bill in 2005 prior to the Liberal government signing a deal with the Italian community to create the well-known ACE program, which would have righted these wrongs, but, in typical fashion, the Conservative government denied the existence of the program and decided not to honour the signed deals.

I re-tabled the bill in 2007. This bill is not unique or unprecedented in comparison to deals made with other cultural communities. Why do we not do the right thing and apologize to the Italian community for past injustices? Why does the government favour one community over another and pit Canadians against each other?

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)