Bill C-28 (Historical)

Financial Literacy Leader Act

An Act to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act

This enactment amends the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act to create the position of Financial Literacy Leader within the Agency. The Leader is to be appointed by the Governor in Council to exercise leadership at the national level to strengthen the financial literacy of Canadians. The amendments also provide for the other powers, duties and functions of the Financial Literacy Leader.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act, as reported without amendment from the committee.

Financial Literacy Leader Act

[The Speaker, Andrew Scheer]

I wish to inform the House that because of the deferred recorded divisions, government orders will be extended by 25 minutes.

There being no motions at report stage, the House will now proceed, without debate, to the putting of the question of the motion to concur in the bill at report stage.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

moved that the bill be concurred in at report stage.

[The Speaker, Andrew Scheer]

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[An hon. member]

On division.

[The Speaker, Andrew Scheer]

(Motion agreed to)

When shall the bill be read a third time? By leave, now?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

moved that the bill be read the third time and passed.

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to be able to continue moving this bill through the House and that we are able to stand to speak to this at third reading today. The act is the financial literacy leader act. It is a very important piece of legislation, as it is a key part of efforts to improve financial literacy in Canada.

Before beginning my remarks here today, I would like to thank all of my colleagues at the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance for their timely study of this legislation earlier this fall. In particular, I would like to recognize the work of the chair of the finance committee, the member for Edmonton—Leduc, not only for his continued leadership on the committee, but also for his serious commitment to improving Canadians' financial literacy. I know he is hard at work in committee right now.

He has been a very strong advocate, not only for this legislation, but for a number of key financial literacy initiatives, including his own recent private member's motion, Motion No. 269, a motion that called for the implementation of a task force on financial literacy.

There is no question that improving financial literacy is an important objective. It is one that I hope all parliamentarians would share. It is an objective that is increasingly seen as growing in international consensus.

In the words of a joint statement by the finance ministers of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum earlier this year:

Financial literacy has become a life skill that is essential for every economy to foster safe and sound, efficient, transparent and inclusive financial systems.

Indeed, in a marketplace with an ever-growing number of complex financial products and services, it is more important than ever that consumers have the skills needed to make informed decisions.

As Annamaria Lusardi, a Dartmouth College economics professor, noted:

Given the complexity of current financial instruments and the financial decisions required in everyday life, from comparing credit card offerings, to choosing methods of payments, to deciding how much to save, where to invest, and how to get the best loan, individuals need to know how to read and write financially.

Fortunately, here in Canada, there has been a good deal of progress made in this area.

The Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, or as we refer to it, the FCAC, is the government's lead agency on financial education and literacy. It has introduced a number of positive initiatives in recent years. For example, the FCAC has developed innovative tools to help Canadians, such as a mortgage calculator that quickly determines an individual's mortgage payment and the potential savings that result from early payments on that mortgage.

It has also created innovative online information to help consumers shop for the most suitable credit card, as well as banking packages that actually meet their needs.

Most recently, due to the work of FCAC, Canadians can now benefit from an objective, reliable and free resource to help them make sense of the everyday financial questions they face. That is referred to as “Your Financial Toolkit”. It is available to everyone, for free, online at the FCAC website. I would encourage anyone who is interested to go to that website to see this financial toolkit. It is another way that Canadians can acquire this life skill that is so critical in today's economy.

In simple, non-technical language, “Your Financial Toolkit” covers the basic financial topics that most Canadians have to deal with every day, from banking, budgeting and saving, to personal debt management, fraud protection, as well as retirement planning. It also provides Canadians with an opportunity to practise new financial skills and apply the information to their own personal situation.

I should note that reviews for “Your Financial Toolkit” have been overwhelming positive. The well-known personal finance journalist Alison Griffiths has noted:

...I'm happy to report there is something there for everyone.

Our Conservative government strongly supports the good work by the FCAC, and we have provided it with more resources to build on those successes. That is why, for example, our government announced $3 million in new funding each and every year. That is in addition to the $2 million in annual funding already provided to FCAC for financial literacy initiatives. This commitment clearly demonstrates how vital our government believes that improving financial literacy is for Canadians, both at the local level and right across the country.

Thanks to our increased support for FCAC, we have seen our agenda for stronger financial literacy in Canada actually moving forward. However, that is only one part of our efforts. We have even gone further, expanding beyond and building on what already exists, starting with the task force for financial literacy that was established in June 2009. It was tasked with making recommendations to create a national strategy to improve financial literacy in Canada. It was comprised of 13 members drawn from the business side, educational sector, community organizations as well as academia.

The task force was created and given a mandate to talk to Canadians directly and get their opinions at the grassroots level, not to impose a top-down strategy. As a result, the task force travelled extensively all across Canada. In its travels, members heard about excellent creative examples of financial literacy education at the local and provincial levels. They heard examples of individual successes that would help inform a comprehensive national plan.

The task force delivered its final report “Canadians and Their Money: Building a brighter financial future”. It was handed to us in February 2011. It outlined 30 recommendations to improve the financial literacy of Canadians, aimed at various levels of government and stakeholders as well. I encourage all Canadians to visit its website at financialliteracyincanada.com to read that report and learn more about the work of the task force, especially those who contributed to it.

Since its release over a year ago, I am very pleased to say that the work of the task force was widely praised by a vast array of organizations, and commentators as well. For example, Social and Enterprise Development Innovations, a charitable non-profit organization that aims to expand economic opportunities for low-income Canadians, strongly endorsed the report, especially for its tireless work in consulting widely in every region of the country. In the words of Laura Watt, the president and CEO of that organization:

[Social and Enterprise Development Innovations commends] the federal government for recognizing the critical importance of financial literacy. We also commend the diligent and thorough work of the task force members, who engaged Canadians in every province and territory in building a much-needed national strategy on financial literacy.

Also, the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants spoke favourably about the task force report. It said:

The recommendations provide a concrete foundation from which to develop a national strategy.

Following the success of the task force's consultations and report, today's legislation starts the process of its implementation by acting on its number one recommendation. That is, establishing a dedicated leader within the government on these issues.

Specifically, it proposes to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act to provide the framework for the appointment of a financial literacy leader. The proposed amendments also set out the duties, powers and functions of the financial literacy leader, enabling either him or her to carry out activities in support of this goal and establishing his or her terms of employment. This individual would be responsible for collaborating and coordinating his or her activities with public interest groups across Canada to contribute and support initiatives that will strengthen Canadians' financial literacy.

It would also continue the process achieved by the FCAC in its work on the national strategy for financial literacy. While the financial literacy leader will be essential to our government's financial literacy efforts, it is just one example of how the government continues to ensure that all Canadian consumers have the knowledge as well as the tools they require to save their money wisely while investing in their future in an increasingly complex financial marketplace.

Today's complex financial world demands improved financial literacy regardless of people's incomes or the types of jobs they do. Just consider a few of these real-life examples, such as: workers setting up a bank account and trying to determine the best way to reach their savings goals; families trying to make ends meet while saving for their first home; investors who may not be aware of the risks and returns of a specific investment or the true value of compound interest; seniors who, in a world of Internet banking and automated teller machines, are susceptible to financial scams and frauds; new Canadians unfamiliar with their rights to basic banking services; aboriginal Canadians living in a remote northern community who may face difficulties keeping up with new savings vehicles offered by government.

That is where financial education comes in. People who become more knowledgeable about financial matters are better able to obtain and benefit from those financial services. We know that financial literacy is the foundation of saving and investing, as well as the responsible use of credit. For example, when it comes to buying a house, being financially literate means understanding the true cost of borrowing. It means knowing that the first years of mortgage payments go toward servicing the debt, not actually paying down principal. Most importantly, it means knowing what questions to ask, such as what kind of mortgage people can get, what their repayment options are, what the fees and taxes are, how they can lower their payments and, above all, if they can really afford it.

Nowhere is the need for improved financial literacy more pressing than among Canada's youth. A recent study on youth financial literacy prepared for FCAC highlighted the cost of omitting basic financial literacy from a student's curriculum. According to the study of young Canadians aged 18 to 29, only one in four reported having received any education or training on personal finances, with most of this instruction occurring only at a post-secondary level. The study also demonstrated that this same demographic of young Canadians had a strong interest in financial education, especially when it comes to personal budgeting. Two-thirds make a monthly budget, although most do not always stick to it, unfortunately; and more than 7 in 10 put money aside for the future, although only half of them do so on a regular basis.

Young Canadians desiring to improve their money management should be an encouraging sign, particularly since young people now have more exposure to financial transactions than any generation before them. According to the same FCAC study, more than 8 in 10 young Canadians have a chequing account and almost as many, 72%, have a credit card.

We know that financial literacy education can be effective and that initiatives like the one being considered today can help ensure that Canada's youth get the tools and knowledge they need. Whether it is our country's teenagers or elderly, increased financial literacy leads to better consumer choices, a larger and more dynamic market for financial services, as well as greater involvement in our country's thriving banking sector. Its absence can put Canadians and, indeed, our economy at a competitive disadvantage, making Canadians pay more for necessary basic banking transactions, or perhaps short-term credit. Clearly, this is something that we all want to avoid and I am proud to have taken this aggressive action to date.

Improving Canadians' financial literacy is not an easy goal. It is an ongoing commitment that will require support from partners across the educational and financial sectors.

Making Canadians as financially knowledgeable as they can possibly be demands a long-term national approach and a collective commitment, one that is exemplified by the creation of a financial literacy leader, a position that today's act proposes to create. The groups actively involved in the delivery of these kinds of programs, like ABC Life Literacy, understand the importance of this position. As the latter testified at the finance committee:

A financial literacy leader, a national leader who helps us strengthen the financial literacy of Canadians, has the potential to help Canadians in this regard. Financial literacy is part of the spectrum of essential skills all Canadians need to thrive.

To build on the legacy of our parents and grandparents who spent only when they could afford it, we must work to ensure that our children and grandchildren fully understand the risks and the rewards of the vast array of financial products and services now available to them today. It is just common sense that our prosperity depends on markets and financial services being accessible to everyone.

This is something that our government has long understood and we have worked hard to implement initiatives to level the playing field for everyone. I can only hope that after careful study at the finance committee and with the opportunity to gain a greater understanding of the important measures contained in today's act, all members of the House will get behind the financial literacy leader and improve financial literacy for everyone.

We have had nearly a year to debate and examine this legislation, so let us get on with passing it. I therefore urge all members of the House to vote in favour of today's act, which will help all Canadians keep more of their hard-earned money, not give it to the banks as a result of a wrong and inappropriate product or service being offered and utilized.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister a few questions from what we heard at committee. The minister was at committee and did a fine job in testifying before us, but he talked about a couple of things there and in his speech here, that is, about an ongoing commitment to financial literacy.

One of our concerns on this side of the House was regarding the ongoing commitment to ensure that our financial literacy leader could speak in both official languages. The minister talked about that at committee and said there was an ongoing commitment to that and that it would be mandatory. Is that something he is going to continue to put forward?

Second, he talked about the importance of the task force recommendations. There were 30 task force recommendations. One of the things we saw on this side of the House as being truly important, that would have made the bill great, is if the bill had included some framework within it. The second recommendation of the task force, to have an advisory council, would have brought forward some framework, but it is not in the bill.

Is the minister going to commit to ensuring that the financial literacy leader has this advisory council?

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that this piece of legislation is great, but we can make it greater. I thank the member for his support on that and his good questions at committee.

When I answered at committee, I said that although it was not defined in the legislation, the necessity of bilingualism would, of course, be respected because this is all across this country. We need to recognize that we are helping Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

Certainly there needs to be some framework around this, but the financial literacy leader will be given the latitude, whether a man or a woman, to develop this framework. We will encourage this leader working within the auspices of the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada to give some thought to how this needs to be rolled out, including how we can engage the not for profit organizations across this country already working on this, how we can engage the financial institutions that are making considerable investments working on this, and how we can coordinate those efforts with the educational facilities within our provinces. That will be the mandate of this financial literacy leader.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for bringing forward this very important measure for all of our constituents.

He mentioned in his speech how Canadians interact with the financial system every day, whether via credit cards or debit cards, or writing cheques or going to the bank. We on this side of the House agree that they should always be treated fairly in their dealings with financial institutions.

Since our government was elected in 2006, we have already taken many steps to ensure the protection of consumers when it comes to financial services products. I am thinking specifically of the banning of negative option billing, for example, for financial products.

I would like you, if you can, to comment on some of the measures we are taking now and have taken in the past to protect Canadian consumers.

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

Before I go to the minister, I would just remind all hon. members to direct their comments to the Chair rather than directly to their colleagues.

The hon. Minister of State (Finance).

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, one of the most important aspects of this financial literacy leader is teaching people how to actually ask the questions, whether they are applying for a mortgage or a credit card. It is the information, the transparency, that matters. That is what we found and what the hon. members was talking about, that there was perhaps a lack of transparency around some of the products that we did have.

The simple fact is that we have banned the credit card cheques that were being sent to people. People assumed that there was no charge on those cheques because they had not requested them. We said that we certainly did not want to see Canadians receiving unsolicited credit card cheques, especially when they were unsolicited, because Canadians did not realize there was a cost.

Then there was our banning of negative option billing, which my colleague referred to. We also required greater disclosure on mortgage prepayments, including the amount of money a person could actually save if they asked some questions when applying for their mortgage, such as how they could pay it off sooner and how much they would save. Then there is the matter of the simple cost of someone paying off only the minimum amount on a credit card. When we receive our credit card statement, that information is now in a little information box. It is shocking how long it takes someone to pay off whatever amount is on his or her credit card.

It is about simple information for people that they perhaps did not realize was due to them. We have put that in regulations, so Canadians can get that information and make wise decisions.

[Jonathan Tremblay, NDP, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what is in this bill is one thing, but once again the Conservatives are showing that they have forgotten a huge chunk of the population.

What does the member think this bill does to help the Canadians who do not have enough money to invest in private financial tools?

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the question is raised, because we have actually put in place 120 different tax reductions since 2006 when we formed government. We have made sure that Canadians do have more of their hard-earned money. An average family of four now keeps over $3,000 more than it did before. That is important. That is what we can do for Canadians, making sure that they keep more of their own money.

This legislation actually provides the information for them to be able to save more of their own money, to be able to invest it wisely, to be able to have a learned discussion with a financial adviser or someone who is simply providing them with an option for a registered retirement savings plan, perhaps even a tax-free savings account, which is one of the best vehicles that Canadians have had offered to them for saving for their retirement.

It is about the information, and we have actually reduced their costs. Now they can take some of that money and we can help them invest it wisely.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is important not only to talk about what is in the bill and what we have been doing, but also about the dissemination of information, as the minister brought up.

Many Canadians in today's technological age do not realize the information we should be disseminating and the information that we definitely should not be disseminating online. It is important that we raise that.

The awareness factor is something that has to be out there. A lot of my friends who are highly educated and have master's degrees do not realize that they are not very financially literate and do not understand how to calculate mortgage interest or credit card interest fees.

Regarding the awareness aspect of this, as the member for Edmonton—Leduc has acknowledged and done a great job in highlighting, could the minister talk about the impact on Canadians of our raising the awareness of this and having this debate on increasing their financial literacy?

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this is a great opportunity. There were a number of witnesses at the finance committee, who are very much engaged in this and want to help people. The Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, FCAC, is doing a great job, especially with the addition of a leader who could focus specifically on this.

The FCAC has many other challenges ahead of it, but a financial literacy leader would be able to focus attention specifically on how we insert this into the educational system with our partners, the provinces, which hold the curriculum decisions. We think it is very important that there be a partnership there, that we start educating our children and even our seniors.

There is a lot of new technology. The fact is that one can now pay with a swipe of one's phone, which is pretty new technology for many Canadians. We need to make sure that they understand how that works. It looks like great technology, but we need to understand the challenges that go with it.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to present the NDP's position on Bill C-28, which would create a financial literacy leader with the aim of improving financial literacy in Canada.

Let me start by saying that, obviously, an understanding of financial literacy is a good thing. Understanding how much the difference between a 5% and 5.5% APR will cost over the lifetime of a loan, how long it will take to pay off a credit card if only minimum payments are made each month, how much needs to be saved each month for school or for a car or to put money away for a down payment on a house, or for retirement, having this knowledge is clearly a benefit.

How do we get to the end point? As I said at committee, it is a little like golf. Some people hook. Others slice, but at the end of the day they are all trying to put the ball into the hole. Therefore, the question we must ask ourselves is: How well does the bill achieve its desired ends?

Unfortunately the bill, while a very small step, is not going to get us to the end point we all desire. For a start, the terms of reference for this position are extremely vague. While the holder of this post will be required to advance financial literacy, there is no definition of what constitutes financial literacy within the bill nor any attempt to define how we could or should advance it.

Moreover, the original recommendation to create this position was very clear on the need for an advisory council that would include labour, voluntary groups, educators and business stakeholders to direct the work of the financial literacy leader. The bill does not include any such measures to create this advisory council and, as such, there is very little in the way of accountability.

Additionally, there is no proviso in the bill that would ensure that this position is filled by someone who is fluently bilingual in both official languages. To me, and to the NDP, it would seem a necessary condition that someone who is expected to teach and encourage Canadians about financial literacy would be able to communicate in both French and English.

We in the NDP tried to address these problems at committee. We introduced six amendments, all of which were dismissed by the Conservative members of the finance committee. Most surprisingly, some of those nay votes seemed to contradict comments made by the Minister of State (Finance) in committee and here today.

When I asked the minister of state about the fact that bilingualism is not a legislative requirement in the bill, the minister replied that the ability to speak both official languages and to disseminate the information in both official languages will be mandatory. Yet just a week later when I tabled a motion to amend the bill to this effect, the Conservative members voted against the amendment on the grounds that they want to ensure that they can choose the right person.

We in the NDP believe that it is impossible to choose the right person if that person is not bilingual, because bilingualism is necessary to ensure that we are helping improve the financial literacy of all Canadians.

We are therefore left with a dilemma. The stakeholders that we have consulted have told us that the NDP approach is far superior to the bill that we are debating today, but unfortunately, and especially with the current government, the choice we are presented with is all or nothing, no compromise, no improvements. This is what is on the table and we can take it or leave it.

That is exactly what was on display at committee, where the Conservatives refused to accept even a single amendment. This approach is not good for the functioning of parliamentary democracy and it is not good for Canadians.

That is why we in the official opposition are not going to play these ideological games. Canadians want good governance and good public administration, and that is exactly what they will get when they elect their first NDP government in 2015.

That is why we in the NDP will be supporting the bill at third reading, not because we believe it is the big fix the Conservatives claim it is but because, for all its faults, passing the bill is better than the current status quo.

Unlike the Conservatives, we listen to stakeholders regardless of their political affiliations and we listen to their concerns when it comes to policy decisions. These groups have told us that the bill would be a small step in assisting their work and enhancing the financial literacy of Canadians.

Our concerns with the bill have certainly not disappeared. However, my colleagues and I will hold the government to account for all of the commitments that we have heard around their position, and when we form government in 2015, we will be in the position to correct all the problems that the party opposite is all too happy to ignore in order to score political points.

When we look at the bill, we should also look to place it within the broader policy changes that the Conservatives have brought forward in the past six years. For example, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada stats tell us that 26% of Canadians struggle with basic numeracy and 20% struggle with basic literacy. Yet the government that is trying to sell Canadians on financial literacy being the answer to their economic problems is the same one that cut $17.7 million from adult literacy programs in 2006. The Conservative government's approach is to give with one hand while taking away with the other.

It is clear that financial literacy is something that we cannot understand in a vacuum. In fact, during the committee process, my colleague from Quebec raised this issue with the minister of state. He said:

You mentioned curriculum. That is very much a key issue. When I was in my third year of high school—which is equivalent to grade 10, I believe—we had what was called an economic education program. It covered things like credit cards and bank accounts, but it also dealt with fundamental issues facing people such as unionization. We looked at everything from a macroeconomic perspective, taking a lot more into account than just financial markets.

Instead of strictly limiting the financial literacy discussion to financial markets, pensions and other really specific issues such as credit cards, don't you think we should widen the scope and talk about economic education in general? Taking that approach, we could work with the provinces to help them develop a curriculum component possibly for primary students, but especially for high school students, to educate all young people about the complexities of economics, beyond just the financial dimension.

The minister's response was simple and to the point. The minister said, “I certainly can't disagree with you: that needs to happen”.

When pushed on it, even the government agrees that we need a more comprehensive strategy than the one we have been presented with. Instead, we get a bill that includes recommendation one of the Task Force on Financial Literacy and ignores the other 29. The minister's response to this is that the financial leader has at his or her discretion the option to put in place many of the other 29 recommendations.

We would agree with recommendation one but not with ignoring all the others. What is the point of independent task force reports if the Conservatives simply pick and choose the parts they like? Recommendation two of the task force calls for the creation of an advisory council made up of financial institution members, educators, unions and other stakeholders to ensure that the financial literacy leader is properly guided.

The Conservatives were happy to say that they were introducing the first and most important recommendation, but what they are doing is equivalent to building a house without putting in a proper foundation. It is not enough to say that it could, will or should have been implemented. It should have been implemented side by side with the financial literacy leader legislation. To do otherwise is to say that it is not important to ensure that all voices are heard.

We in the NDP take a different approach, one that listens to a wide variety of voices and ensures that no Canadian gets left behind. We need to make finance more understandable, not just make people better at understanding it. Even for people who do not struggle with numeracy and literacy, finance is not a particularly comprehensible subject. Barrie McKenna, a business columnist for the Globe and Mail, states:

Looking to financial literacy to fill the void is like asking ordinary Canadians to be their own brain surgeons and airline pilots. The dizzying array of financial products, mixed with chaotic and increasingly irrational financial markets, makes the job of do-it-yourself financial planning almost impossible – no matter how literate you are. The average credit-card agreement is as intuitive as quantum physics.

We also need to ensure that Canadians are aware that sometimes it may not be in their best interest to take out certain financial products. Encouraging people to take out savings and investment funds creates lucrative fees for banks and brokers. In fact, according to Morningstar, an investment research company, Canadian fees for equity funds are some of the highest in the world, being on average around two and a half times higher than fees in the U.S. for example.

We need to ensure that our financial literacy regime will criticize plans where fund managers take a substantial fee regardless of the performance of the fund, that it will highlight funds like the CPP, regularly outperform private funds and it must communicate to people the need to weigh the inherent dangers of investing in the stock market. Unfortunately, without a definition of “financial literacy” and without an advisory council, we cannot be sure that this will be the case.

We as parliamentarians should also be wary about increasing the quantity of financial literacy available without ensuring its quality. We in the NDP understand that this is a possibility and introduced an amendment to improve the reporting requirements of the financial literacy leader. However, as seems par for the course, the Conservatives ignored the concerns and voted it down. This has two dangerous and interlinked consequences.

First, the model presents the possibility of shifting all blame off banks and onto consumers. At the individual level, people can begin to be blamed for their own uninformed choices and, at the national or even international levels, systemic problems are no longer the fault of banks that will lend beyond their means to individuals who borrow too much. Obviously, individuals do have a responsibility to manage their own finances but banks, hedge funds and other financial institutions have the ability to affect the economy in a much more profound way than individual consumers, and we must not forget that.

Second, what do we do for the people who actually end up worse off due to financial investments that fail? We have to understand that some people will lose their savings when businesses go bust or when the stock market drops. This has been the way the stock market has worked since the first recognizable stock exchange opened in Amsterdam in the 17th century.

What about those people who simply do not have the type of disposable income required to invest in their futures, the people who live paycheque to paycheque, the people who have seen their wages stagnate or fall in real terms since the mid-1990s? The government should recognize that for a very large portion of Canadians a lack of savings is a reflection of the disparity between the rise in the cost of living and the rise in wages over the last 15 years or so.

Encouraging savings is fine for people who have disposable income after they have paid for the essentials but, unfortunately, far too many people taking on debt is not a choice. It is the only way to survive.

An OECD report published in December 2011 pointed out that the trend toward a less progressive tax structure and a more unequal society here in Canada began in the mid-1990s under the then Liberal government and has continued since 2006 under the current government.

As famed Canadian economist, Jim Stanford, noted in his submission to the national task force:

Personal savings will never constitute an important source of financial security for the strong majority of Canadians who cannot save, given the paucity of their incomes.

If the government really wanted to give these people an opportunity to build their own savings, then it would regulate bank fees and the level of interest that is charged on credit cards in order to allow people to put a little bit aside each month to ensure that it can help with their savings.

Similarly, if the government wants to ensure that Canadians have adequate savings when they retire, the way forward is not to create a new and inherently risky vehicle for private savings. There are already multiple methods for Canadians to save for their futures, RRSPs and TFSAs spring to mind, if they have the funds available to invest.

These vehicles are already supported and funded by the government. In fact, studies have shown that the highest earning 11% of Canadians contribute more to RRSPs than the bottom 89% of tax filers combined. Because of the tax benefits of these investments in RRSPs, Canadian taxpayers subsidize that contribution by the top 11% of earners to the tune of $7.3 billion in annual net tax expenditures.

The creation of pooled registered pension plans, or PRPPs, therefore, only benefits those who are already able to invest in their retirement. It does nothing for the 30% of Canadian families who lack any form of retirement savings outside of CPP.

Encouraging people to invest in a risky vehicle on the stock market is not real leadership on financial planning. It again simply passes the entire risk and blame for an individual not having adequate retirement savings onto that individual. To make matters worse, the Conservatives have delayed the age at which Canadians are eligible for OAS from 65 to 67. It would make far more sense, if the government is really interested in Canadians' retirement security, in allowing Canadians to properly plan for their retirement, to reverse the changes to the eligibility age for OAS and, just as the NDP leader has done, make a commitment to the NDP plan to expand the guaranteed Canada/Quebec pension plan by phasing in an affordable doubling of benefits.

This plan has been called for by provinces across the country. It would allow Canadians both the ability to plan for their retirement and a guaranteed income to ensure they can retire with dignity. Moreover, the CPP is a much safer investment than market based private funds and consistently outperforms the market. Even business columnists, like the aforementioned Barrie McKenna of The Globe and Mail, pointed out the benefits of such a policy by stating:

And Ottawa could beef up the CPP, mandating Canadians sock away more money for retirement, while benefitting from the CPP's low costs.

However, so far, the government, and the Minister of Finance in particular, have not listened to this appeal for a real and proven way of ensuring Canadians can retire with dignity.

The problem is that the government seems to think that encouraging these skills is a suitable substitute for a proper regime of consumer protection, retirement security and a proper strategy for economic growth. The bill embodies the government's strategy, or lack of strategy, in addressing the issues that really matter to working and middle-class Canadians across the country.

I wonder why the creation of the financial literacy leader could not be included in the Financial System Review Act rather than being a stand-alone act? The Conservatives have no problem lumping together pieces of legislation that have no relationship to one another in omnibus budget bills but, apparently, a bill to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act could not be included a system review of banking legislation. It appears to me that the only reason these did not go together was because the government hoped it could get some positive media out of this legislation, but who knows?

The NDP believes in real measures to protect consumers, seniors and low-income Canadians. My colleagues on this side of the House in the official opposition will continue to stand up for policies that really help hard-working Canadians. This is a small start, a very small step, and one which we will be supporting to send to the Senate in order to get the funds, which have already been allocated, out to the organizations that really need them.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague across the way for standing and speaking in favour of financial literacy, in moving forward with this legislation and sending it to the Senate.

It is obvious that there is a need for some financial literacy based on the speech that was just given. We talked about CPP outperforming the marketplace. I would like to know if the member opposite could break down how much the CPP has invested in the actual stock market. Does he know how much is in bonds, treasury bills and in common shares? I wonder if he understands that CPP is invested, actually, in the marketplace and the reason it is outperforming is because it is a pool.

He criticized the registered retirement pooled savings plan that we put together but the CPP actually is a pool of funds. That is why, based on reducing risk and spreading risk, it has been able to perform better. The fact is that the CPP is invested in the marketplace.

I appreciate his support but the NDP could use a little financial literacy.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what the member forgot to mention is that the CPP is guaranteed and the PRPP is not. What we are calling for on this side is to ensure that Canadians can retire with dignity. The thing is that the Conservatives always forget the one tiny piece.

That is what I said about financial literacy. We need to ensure that Canadians have financial literacy but the financial literacy leader that the Conservatives are talking about and have brought forward is a very tiny step.

We encourage the Conservatives to bring forward this advisory council to ensure all French and English Canadians can get the education they need to ensure that we stop blaming individuals for the financial crisis. We need to ensure that they have the information they need and put the banks where they should be with the understanding that they have a responsibility with this as well.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the speech given by my hon. colleague from Sudbury, who demonstrated the importance of taking a stand regarding this bill on financial literacy. He also demonstrated what this could mean for Canadians on a day-to-day basis, and I thank him for that.

One point that I really appreciated, especially being the member for Québec, is the importance of having people who are competent as well as bilingual. We cannot overstate the importance of having bilingual government officials and the importance of having a bilingual financial literacy leader who understands people from Option consommateurs and the Union des consommateurs, and from all the provinces. I wish to thank my hon. colleague for that.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, financial literacy truly is important. As a person who has a French last name and comes from a French family, I am working hard on becoming fluent in French. I have been doing this for a few years now but to be able to say that I could do this quickly and understand the complexities of many situations would not be fair.

We are asking the government, and the Minister of State for Finance has already mentioned it in committee and here today in the House, that it will be mandatory to be bilingual for this position. This is truly important to ensure that all Canadians, French speaking or English speaking, get the financial literacy education they need. Hopefully, the Conservatives will stay true to their word.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for Sudbury for educating the member for Burlington on pooled registered savings plans. Maybe he could hold a seminar and educate the rest of the members on the other side of the House.

After listening to his great speech about the work that was done in committee, it sounds to me like his committee works like the rest of the committees in this House of Commons. The Conservatives want us to support their bills so we can bring them to committee to make some change but, once the bill gets to committee, they absolutely refuse to make any changes. In this case, against the advice of the minister, they refused to make changes.

Would my hon. colleague tell me about the good changes that were suggested by the NDP?

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Nickel Belt for the great work that he does with me in the great city of greater Sudbury.

We proposed six amendments and, as I do not have time to talk about all of them, I will talk about three.

The first amendment was to ensure that the financial literacy leader, whomever the Conservatives hire, needs to be bilingual. That amendment was turned down.

We asked that a definition of financial literacy be included in the bill. That was pretty straight forward but it amendment was turned down.

We then asked that an advisory council be brought forward by looking at the recommendations of the task force. The second recommendation of the task force was that the financial literacy leader needed an advisory council. It recommended that the advisory council be made up of financial organizations, members from the industry, labour, education and other community stakeholders. All of these groups would then advise the financial literacy leader and ensure that the great work that is currently being done by all of the not for profits and other organizations that are already doing this work across the country would be able to work together with this financial literacy coordinator. The word “coordinator” was used several times in committee. The witnesses never used the word “leader”, but said that they needed someone to coordinate all of this. We presented this amendment and it also was turned down.

Obviously, the Conservatives had no interest in trying to make this a bill that works for everyone.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we proposed six amendments to this bill that were all rejected. The one that interests me most is the advisory board. Could the hon. member could tell us a bit about the advantages of having an advisory board added to the legislation?

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to answer this question because that truly is important. If we look at what the advisory council's mandate and role are, it is to do what the title says, “advise the financial literacy leader”. No one person can be the expert on this subject, especially when there are so many great organizations right across the country, like the United Way, which are all doing great work when it comes to financial literacy. This advisory council is to ensure that we hear all perspectives from the education sector.

There are things that were talked about in committee. I quoted the minister and my hon. colleague from Quebec. We talked about ensuring that we could provide some type of financial literacy for the provinces to put into their education system. The financial literacy leader cannot do that, but he has to work with the educators, school boards and the provinces.

Right now, there is absolutely no framework in the bill to allow them to do this. Do we have concerns about that? Of course we do. Hearing from some of the stakeholders, they like having the financial literacy leader, though they also liked using the term “financial literacy coordinator”, which is important as well, as a first step so they can continue doing the great work they do. I hope the government stays true to its word and will ensure that the advisory council will be promoted and pushed for the financial literacy leader to implement as soon as this person is hired.

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Drummond, Fisheries and Oceans; the hon. member for Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, Aboriginal Affairs; and the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Superior North, Border Security.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise today to speak to Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act, or more to the point, let us talk about having a financial literacy leader, or as my hon. colleague pointed out, financial literacy coordinator. It is necessary across all regions in the country for the sake of the troubled times that we have entered into. For that reason alone, having a person in charge of financial literacy is one that is necessary.

We are living in a different world than we used to. My father worked in one mill for over 40 years and he had what is called a defined benefit pension plan. Quite simply, when he retired, he had the same amount of money each and every month apportioned to him and the financial risk was taken on by the company. These types of pension plans are not as prevalent as they used to be.

What is happening is a lot of pension plans are becoming what is called the defined contribution plans, so the company contributes like they did before, but so does the individual contribute. The essential risk of a pension plan now falls on the shoulders of the individual worker or the person investing in that plan. There is a fundamental shift. People have to plan, if they take an annuity, how their asset mix is to be placed, which was done before in a defined benefit plan by the person in charge of the plan itself. Now we have entered a new age when there are a lot of people in that position.

The other aspect is there are a lot of people out there now who are in transient work. I say that for my riding in Newfoundland and Labrador because a lot of people there get work in other jurisdictions, especially when it comes to skilled labour.

In the early nineties, we had a collapse of the cod industry, which was the greatest massive layoff in the history of the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. A lot of government programs were put in place to educate people to give them the skills. Over the years that paid off tremendously. Within my riding, a tremendous amount of people are not at the wharf, not at the factory, not at the plant, but at the airport. They are going to places like Alberta, Saskatchewan, Russia, off the coast of Africa, drilling. They are going to eastern Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, parts of the North Sea, Norway. They are going to places that were considered to be unimaginable for so many people in my riding.

What does that mean? How does this equate to financial literacy because they are making very good money to sustain their families? The problem is the pension plans we used to rely on are not portable. These people have to be their own investor. They have to take on all the risk themselves, which is the most important aspect of having financial literacy. Because people are now investors and absorbing the risks, I would like to see more defined benefit plans. Why not? If 308 members of Parliament are eligible for a defined benefit plan, why can others not be? That is not the way it is going. The risk is falling on the particular individual and that is why financial literacy is so important.

Let us look at another aspect. Let us look at our youth today. Let us look at some of the numbers. We are indebted right now at $1.60 for every dollar that we bring in as income. This is not a good statistic, especially for the category of age 18 to 24, because they have actually fallen way behind before they have even started. A lot of that is consumer debt, which is the worst kind because there is no asset to show at the end of the day. Student debt is a big thing, but there is a degree to show for it and a education to get a high paying job. Whether they are mortgages, or automobiles to a lesser extent, or investments in RRSPs, pooled or not, these plans have a certain asset at the end of the day.

The problem is with the consumer debt and the high amount of interest on certain things, like credit cards either from a store or chartered bank, what happen is a lot of this debt will not show an asset at the end of the day and therefore it becomes that much more burdensome to all individuals, especially the young.

How do we get into a situation where we improve financial literacy? There has been a lot of talk about it in the House. The member for Edmonton—Leduc brought it up in the House during the past number of years and also had a motion passed in the House some time ago, which lends to the type of legislation we are debating today. I certainly commend him for that.

Because we are the national legislature, the federal institution, when it comes to the term “education”, according to our Constitution, it falls within the jurisdiction of the provinces. However, the federal government has a role to help coordinate some kind of educational program for the young people across the country. It is not just isolated to them, but certainly for high school students this could be an open window into the minds of our young as to how this will cripple their ability to financially support themselves and their families in the future.

Bill C-28 is a small step in that direction. As we talk here in third reading and send it to the Senate, it is a step in that direction.

We talked about the task force. My colleague, the member for Sudbury, talked quite a bit about the task force itself, the financial literacy task force with 30 recommendations, the vast majority of which are bona fide recommendations. Number one of which would be to have that coordinator, the financial literacy leader, which is most important.

If we look at the background of this, over the past little while we have talked about it a lot and now I would like to see more action given to a national financial literacy strategy, if I may be so bold as to call it that. We will make small steps along the way, and this is one of those steps that is necessary.

It is designed to create the position of a financial literacy leader and enforces the consumer provisions applicable to federal financial institutions. It is all coached within the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada. This is the particular agency that provides a lot of this information. I would like to see it be more proactive in its education. Nevertheless, it does have ability and the resources and now because of the bill, it will get more resources to make that possible, certainly under the guise of the financial literacy leader.

The legislative summary is from the Library of Parliament, and I would like to congratulate the library for the wonderful work it does.

The FCAC, the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, monitors the financial services sector self-regulatory measures designed to protect consumers and small businesses. Again, we are in the situation where those who do not have the benefit of being a large company cannot really provide a lot of resources to looking after a lot of this material. What the government ends up doing is taking on that responsibility to provide a source of information for individuals and smaller businesses unable to afford to get the right advice, or a substantial amount of advice, to make that decision.

It also promotes consumer awareness and understanding of the financial services sector and responds to selected consumer inquiries. One point about that is very important, and that is the financial adviser. There are thousands and thousands of financial advisers across the country. I always like to recommend to people that they see a financial adviser especially those who have a skilled trade and find themselves working for a particular company for a short period of time, then another one and another one.

People are working for a 40-year span of their lives. Nowadays the idea of working for one company for over 40 years is a very rare thing. It happened many years ago for my family in a small town with a big plant, but now these situations do not happen as regularly as they used to. I would suggest people see financial advisers because they are the ones that take on the risk.

They could be pipefitters, electricians or carpenters. They are not necessarily financial experts. Many of them do not want to be. However, there is certainly a level of financial literacy that has to be attained in order for these people to support themselves as they move on from work, or if something happens to them and they have no choice but to leave the workforce because of a long-term disability or something of that nature.

It is certainly incumbent upon us to take the risk, but it is also incumbent upon us to learn about the financial tools out there to help us and to see what is available to us in order to plan over the long term.

The government has a large role, both provincial and federal, to ensure that financial literacy is a key learning tool for many of our young people and certainly for middle-aged people who have not even started to think about retirement.

I mentioned earlier the people who do not have access to a portable pension. The largest portable pension is the CPP, but whether it is the combination of the Canada pension plan and old age security coming together, it does not replace the income we had while we were working. It is a very low percentage. Therefore, for people who invest on their own, that would probably become the majority of their income as they enter into retirement years or if they face something like a long-term disability.

I have talked quite a bit about pensions, which I think is the ultimate example of financial literacy. This is important because we now have a substantial amount of people retiring. I am basically talking about the baby boomer age group, as we affectionately call it.

The 2011 federal budget announced $3 million annually to undertake financial literacy initiatives. This amount was in addition to what was provided to the FCAC, which is a $2 million fund. When we talk about the financial literacy leader, the terms of the provision are clauses 3, 5 and 7 of the bill.

The objective of the leader is to provide national leadership in strengthening financial literacy. Whether we call the person a financial literacy leader or coordinator is a question of semantics, but we get the idea that the person has to take a very large role in the lives of others. They have to coordinate across many sectors, federal and provincial, French and English, as well as first nations.

This is a huge task for this person and one that is worthy. Obviously any task that is asked by Parliament and by government is worthy, but this one also has to be contemplated and well-financed, which is why the $3 million is key here as the additional budgetary amount. In looking at this in depth, the powers, duties and functions of this particular person are also key to ensuring success is there.

I mentioned earlier that this is a small step toward improving financial literacy in this country. There is no doubt about that, but let us take a look at the financial literacy leader in this particular situation. The Commissioner of the FCAC may impose an assessment on any financial institution in order to recover some or all of the expenses associated with initiatives designed to strengthen the financial literacy of Canadians. It is putting some of that burden onto the financial sector, which is a great idea.

As is the case for Her Majesty, the Minister of Finance, and the commissioner, deputy commissioners, officers and employees of the FCAC, no action may be taken against the financial literacy leader for anything he or she does or omits to do in good faith in administering or discharging the powers or duties of the position of financial literacy leader. This is also a very important aspect. It allows this person to function in the way a person should function whose goal is to increase the amount of financial literacy across this country. We would not want to see this person chained into a position where they find themselves being suffocated, for lack of a better word, by rules and regulations and by their own machinery. It allows this person to go above and beyond the call of duty if that person chooses to do so.

The bill says the financial literacy leader will report to Parliament, and there is also a clause about civil proceedings.

The final point from the Library of Parliament is that financial literacy is frequently a topic of interest to parliamentarians, which it has been for quite some time. I mentioned my hon. colleague from Edmonton—Leduc. The issue has been discussed in parliamentary committee reports. We also heard from the member for Sudbury, who talked about six possible amendments. These were not accepted, but nonetheless, the discussion was there and I think some of them are quite noteworthy and noble in their cause.

We talked about the 30 recommendations from the task force. One of the recommendations my colleague from Sudbury brought up was about the advisory council, which I think is a positive step in the right direction as well.

What we see here are many facets of the industry, including those who are workers, such as the people I meet every weekend when I am at the airport and they are on their way to whatever job it is they have in the oil and gas sector. These are people who belong to building trades associations, or unions for that matter. They certainly do have quite a bit of input in how we can improve financial literacy.

Also, the issue has been mentioned in the House of Commons, including in the context of the private member's motion, Motion No. 269, by the member for Edmonton—Leduc, who is also the chair of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. The conversation we had centred around the importance of financial literacy and how we have moved ahead into what I would deem is a brave new world for all citizens who work in this country.

As I mentioned before, there is the Canada pension plan and old age security. If people do not have the CPP, they are most likely eligible for the guaranteed income supplement. These measures do not displace the income that people earned, and certainly not if people work in the oil and gas sector where wages are so high and all of a sudden they find themselves out of work, through no fault of their own, such with a long-term disability.

Financial planning at the earliest age and financial literacy plays a very important role for many years to come. It someone gets injured on the job at the age of 25 to 30, think about how many years he or she has to recover based on his or her investments in a very short period of time. This is where financial literacy becomes that much more important. We get calls at our office every day about this.

This particular legislation, Bill C-28, required a ways and means motion as it would give the Commissioner of the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada the authority to impose a financial levy against any financial institution, as I mentioned, in order to pay for expenses related to financial literacy initiatives. During the committee study, officials also told finance committee that the government would increase the annual budget for the FCAC from $2 million to $5 million.

A significant contributor to rising household debt, which we talked about some time ago, was mortgages. One of the things I think was necessary was reducing the mortgages with 40-year amortization down to about 25 years. I think it was necessary because zero-down, 40-year mortgages were causing more problems than not. We found ourselves in a situation similar to that in the United States, where they had sub-par loans that caused ripples around the world that have lasted for years. That was not the only thing but certainly that was the genesis of it, the spark. That is one part of it that had to come down.

We are taking measures in addition to this that help financial literacy and certainly help the average consumer cope.

The danger in having zero-down, 40-year amortization mortgages is that, as we have seen, it is way too much risk to take on. We end up elevating ourselves to the statistic I read earlier, which is $1.63 in debt for every dollar that we bring in. Nations in the world are in the same ratio. In Europe right now, nations that we considered financially sound are no longer as sound.

In looking at this, I would say that many of the questions that we had asked prior to third reading were addressed in committee.

The financial literacy leader will not have his or her own office. Instead, he or she will operate out of the office of the FCAC. That was one of the questions we brought up.

There are no plans to use Bill C-28 to levy an assessment on banks to pay for financial literacy. It should be noted the FCAC already had the power to levy assessments against banks under legislation brought forward when the FCAC was created.

There was also, of course, the question about the anticipated cost, the extra $3 million for this particular individual.

Again, I would agree with my colleague that the advisory council should also be a second part to this. I am certainly willing to say yes to this, as a precursor to that step in the future.

I will go back to what I talked about in the beginning. This is a brave new world. It is one that compels our children to be that much more financially literate, to the point where this is a step in the right direction.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to hear my colleague speak to the good things that are going on with financial literacy and the things that our government is trying to accomplish. He highlighted a number of reasons why it is necessary. The world has changed, as he said, from a time perhaps long gone when individuals could depend on company policies or pension plans. The world is a different place.

I would like to highlight the great work of my young nephew. As a young person out of high school who did not have a lot of financial literacy, he got involved, educated himself and is now making a very respectable annual income on earnings from his stock.

I think about what my colleague has said about developing new skills and becoming financially aware. I wonder if he could speak to the benefits that this is going to have for his own constituents, who are going to be changing jobs maybe two or three times in their careers. How is this going to impact his own constituents?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I talked about my own constituents in this particular situation, but I should include her nephew as well because it seems he is obviously of the same measure.

The portability of anything one invests in is key. We have one weapon, for lack of a better term. Compared to other private investments, I am a big fan of the Canada pension plan. It is the most portable and we use it across this country. We need to invest wisely because the portability of investments is always key in the sense that the member's nephew and my constituents are able to use this investment around the world. They are able to invest and feel comfortable knowing that at the end of the day there is an annuity waiting for them. If they choose to use that mechanism, it is there for them not just in retirement but in the case of an accident if they have to claim long-term disability.

The only thing I would ask for more action to be taken on now is greater dialogue with the provinces to provide education through high schools and school boards.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my hon. colleague's speech. The sad thing about this bill is that six amendments were proposed in committee, but they were all rejected. One of those amendments had to do with the importance of bilingualism and having a financial literacy leader who speaks both official languages. Another amendment involved creating an advisory council so that the financial literacy leader would not be alone and could hear what educators and people on the ground have to say. I wonder if the member could talk about those amendments.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I talked about the advisory council, which is another positive step. I agree with her. I honestly do. In my speech I mentioned the workers who I see in airports who go back and forth all over the world. They are key stakeholders. These are the people we need to see.

The other aspect I did not comment on, which I am glad she brought up, was the bilingual aspect. Yes, I agree that is one thing we should look at. I think there is a private member's bill coming from the member for Louis-Saint-Laurent that I hope will put that to rest.

This is very important not only for Newfoundland and Labrador and Quebec, but for us too, and the entire country.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a daughter who goes to university in the United States. The university that she goes to requires five core courses, such as math, English, physical fitness. One of them is financial literacy. If I had the opportunity to make a suggestion to whoever gets the new position being created today about what he or she should be promoting, I would say it is an excellent opportunity for every young person at university to take a financial literacy course.

My question to the hon. member across the way is this. Is there anything that he would like to suggest in terms of financial literacy to the person who gets this job?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, let us start with the idea the member just suggested. It is a great idea. It is about time we had a core course in all of our schools. It is that important. The member's daughter talked about that core course in school being a great idea. She will, in years to come, personally benefit from doing that course. I wholeheartedly agree.

Again, the other piece is the people who have invested on their own, and I include people who travel a lot. For children it is a school thing, but those who have a skilled trade right now should talk to the associations or unions that are involved, to say that the financial leader should look at how to reach these people, not just for retirement but also for cases of long-term disability.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of the key things about this position will be how the person is chosen. I am wondering if the member could give us his opinion about how the appointment should be made.

One of the concerns we have had with the government is the way it selects people for positions that come under an order in council. We obviously want someone who is going to have the skill set, but we also want to make sure we have an option in Parliament to have a go at it, as they say. I am wondering if the member could elaborate on the importance of choosing the right person and the process therein.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, as the member points out, it is an order in council appointment, which is chosen by cabinet in any which way, shape or form. That opens it up to many possibilities.

I hope it is done with a great deal of prudence in this situation. I would not want to rush the government into deciding who that person should be very soon. I would like it to take the time to get the feedback from provinces, labour groups, financial institutions and the Canadian Bankers Association. These people should have a say in what type of person that is and hopefully, through the weeds, government can figure out who that individual will be in this case. A case in point is to go after the best person. For example, the ambassador to the United States now is a former Manitoba premier. That is a good idea.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I noticed in the course of this debate that the Liberal member for Kings—Hants voiced some very similar concerns to ours regarding the bill. I am wondering if the member could remind us what the objections are and perhaps how he would see that these could be remedied.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, when it came around to second debate, one of the things we had problems with is that there were a lot of unanswered questions. Through the course of deliberations at committee, we came forward with a lot of answers. For example, one was what the anticipated cost of the legislation would be. The anticipated cost is $3 million per year. One of the things that did not come out of this as a successful measure, but it was talked about, was the advisory council, which is the second step in the right direction. It could be accompanied with legislation down the road.

However, the discussion was paramount. The six amendments furthered the discussion as well, and I congratulate the member for that. The hon. colleague from Sudbury had some valid points about that. In the meantime, this certainly is a step in the right direction. God forbid, I get negative about this. Everything has been Pollyanna since I started speaking, but I think members get the idea.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as the deputy critic for consumer protection, it is my great pleasure to speak today on a subject of great importance: financial literacy. There is no better time to talk about this issue because November, which starts tomorrow, is financial literacy month in Canada.

I know that “financial literacy” is not a hook for everyone, but it really matters to Canadians in their daily lives.

Bill C-28 would create a financial literacy leader in Canada. That is an interesting idea, but the bill before us today is pretty much an empty shell because it does not include the kind of meaningful political directions we were hoping to see. Nor does it include a definition of financial literacy, accountability mechanisms or concrete measures to increase financial literacy in Canada. That is a real shame.

Having read the bill, I have a number of questions. For example, what is the Minister of Finance's definition of financial literacy? No doubt they will say that financial literacy is having the knowledge, skills and self-confidence to make responsible financial decisions. However, such a simplistic definition gets in the way of creating a real strategy to address this complicated issue. We need a strategy for the medium and long terms. This bill does not come through.

Who is responsible for helping Canadians improve their financial literacy? A number of interveners have recommended ways to improve Canadians' financial knowledge. For example, the banks have created a number of initiatives to help Canadians learn more about this issue. Unfortunately, those same banks are responsible for the problem. Messages promoting healthy financial habits are too easily eclipsed by financial industry advertising about easy credit.

At a time when the number of financial products is growing faster than the need for them—there is no denying that this is true—it is extremely important to be well informed about financial matters. Financial concepts are often complicated and can be confusing for the consumer after a while or when the time comes to evaluate whether or not a product is suitable. Information provided to the client must be clearer in terms of content and presentation.

Ken Georgetti, president of the Canadian Labour Congress, summarized the situation very well: “Canadians need better government policy rather than lectures on how to save money.” The government is ignoring the harmful conduct of financial institutions.

As the main source of this difficult to understand information, the financial industry must improve the clarity of its communications. That was one of the recommendations made by the Task Force on Financial Literacy that is not in the bill.

The task force report to the minister states:

Canadians need financial information and advice that is relevant, understandable and engaging, and we believe governments and financial services providers have a responsibility to ensure that their communications meet these criteria.

Improving financial skills must be a lifelong endeavour. According to the task force experts, students should receive basic financial education. We cannot talk about financial literacy without deploring the lack of resources for youth. We are talking about elementary and secondary school students. It is a loss that economics is no longer taught in Quebec's secondary schools, because it is at that age that young people begin making many financial decisions.

Earlier, I heard the member for Burlington say that this should be taught in university. Personally, I believe that it should be taught at a younger age. It should already be part of their education. This reminds us that it is important that we accept this responsibility and take action now.

Many of these young people have started working and are continually exposed to consumerism and credit, without always having the tools they need to really understand the choices available to them. I will not talk about the fine print at the bottom of the page since it is not always easy to understand the preconditions and other similar elements.

James Clancy, president of the National Union of Public and General Employees, expressed an opinion in this regard that I share. He said that educating the public about finances, even at a young age, is good. Giving them a fighting chance to keep some savings in their bank accounts—through reduced banking fees, lower credit card interest rates or regulating industries—would be impressive. The government should focus on making serious changes to ease the burden on families and communities, and that is exactly what the NDP is proposing.

Canada's Task Force on Financial Literacy made 30 recommendations, one of which involved the creation of a financial literacy leader position. This bill does not take into consideration the other 29 recommendations.

The Conservatives do not seem to want to seriously tackle this problem since, if they did, they would have added some of the task force's other recommendations to this bill, including the creation of an advisory board that would include groups of workers and volunteers, as well as educators—in short, people who have expertise on the ground, the people the Conservatives should be listening to but ignore in many instances.

I would like to talk about another phenomenon related to financial literacy and that is the indebtedness of retirees. This seems to be a growing phenomenon.

Option consommateurs, an organization that I met with recently and that I commend, is currently conducting an awareness campaign to encourage Canadians to increase their knowledge of personal finance. The organization has noted that, unfortunately, more and more retirees are finding themselves in a precarious financial situation because they do not have enough savings for their retirement. What is more, this situation is only going to get worse when the age of eligibility for old age security increases from 65 to 67, another one of the Conservatives' bad decisions, another decision that is going to cause harm.

The NDP has a real plan to solve the problem of financial security for Canadian retirees. We are going to strengthen the guaranteed pension plans in Canada and Quebec, thereby giving Canadians an acceptable level of guaranteed income during retirement.

Furthermore, why not start up a national dialogue on the reasons why the houses we live in should be treated not as investments, but simply as roofs that all Canadians should be able to have over their heads? Retirees are not the only ones whose financial situation is deteriorating. A few days ago, Statistics Canada increased its estimate of the household debt ratio. This rate is now at 160% of disposable income. This higher level of debt makes individuals more vulnerable to economic shocks. So why is the financial burden on households increasing? The reason is easier access to credit, as well as the fact that the cost of living is increasing but wages are stagnating. This is the result of this government's ineffective economic policies.

Once again, and we have seen this many times, this government would rather lower the corporate tax rate, claiming that that will create jobs, instead of giving a tax credit to businesses that create jobs. That is what the Conservative government does.

If this government cares about protecting consumers, it should implement regulations on credit cards, so we can impose a cap on interest rates and eliminate the excessive fees paid by consumers.

Considering the lack of enthusiasm for financial literacy shown in recent years—or even decades—by the Minister of Finance and his colleagues, they need help, and a financial literacy leader position could help Canada at least take a small step in the right direction. We will continue to push the government to go further, because even though it has made a step in the right direction today, there is still a long way to go.

The NDP proposed some amendments in committee, in order to address some flaws in the bill, such as adding a bilingualism requirement and adding provisions that clearly define the meaning of financial literacy and require more accountability from the financial literacy leader. However, the Conservatives rejected all of our suggestions. They flat out rejected the six amendments proposed by the NDP.

We are very concerned about the fact that there is no explicit requirement that the incumbent of this position be bilingual. We think that if someone is responsible for improving financial literacy across Canada, he or she should be able to communicate in French and English.

As my hon. colleague from Sudbury said earlier, the NDP believes it is possible to find a financial literacy leader who is competent, highly qualified and bilingual. He thinks that can be done for other positions too, such as government officers.

We would not be shooting ourselves in the foot if we hired highly qualified, bilingual people. On the contrary, we would be showing the whole world that we are proud of our two official languages: English and French.

That is clearly an advantage in undertaking dialogue with other countries, particularly on these issues. Speaking two languages is an advantage. It would be good for the government to understand that and take it to heart as my party and I have done.

In conclusion, Canada would be better off if Canadians improved their knowledge of the economy and made responsible financial decisions. To make that happen, we need a strategy that calls for a concerted effort on the part of clients, schools and various organizations, including those in the industry. That is why we need an advisory council made up of union and financial institution representatives and educators. That is worth repeating.

I would like to share some information. A Conservative member told me that one of my strengths is being able to cite experts in the field. I will indulge him by citing a few experts who support what we are proposing.

According to Barrie McKenna, a business columnist for the Globe and Mail, waiting for financial literacy to fill the void is like asking ordinary Canadians to be their own brain surgeons and airline pilots. The dizzying array of financial products, mixed with chaotic and increasingly irrational financial markets, makes the job of do-it-yourself financial planning almost impossible, no matter how literate you are. The average credit card agreement is as intuitive as quantum physics. Canadians are constantly bombarded with pitches to take on more debt, whether it is right for them or not. They are often blindly steered toward high-fee products and complex financial instruments. The accompanying disclosure statements are written by, and for, lawyers. There is a sounder and no doubt less costly path, but it does not suit the financial services industry or many business groups.

He goes on to say that Ottawa could mandate plain-English disclosure. Working with the provinces, the government could enhance regulation of industry sales incentives and defined-contribution pensions. Ottawa could strengthen the CPP, forcing Canadians to save more money for retirement, while benefiting from the CPP's low administrative costs.

Of course I agree with some of what he says. However, I cannot stress bilingualism enough in this area, as that is what is important. Mr. McKenna clearly highlighted the importance of understanding that, at present, consumers are bombarded by financial products. We must all do our part in order to make financial information easier to understand.

Thirty per cent of Canadian families do not have retirement savings outside of the Canada pension plan. Twenty-five per cent of Canadians have accumulated more debt in the past year. Never before has Canadian household debt been so high. Now more than ever the government must implement policies to help people and families in debt. That is important.

Financial literacy is an important aspect of the consumer protection framework. As I said earlier, this bill does not go far enough. The fact that many Canadians do not have any savings and the rise in consumer debt are symptoms of the discrepancy between the rise in the cost of living and salaries, rather than financial illiteracy. Too many Canadians live paycheque to paycheque. This situation proves that the government is not taking a leadership role and that it is incapable of addressing issues that are truly important to Canadians. The government has never implemented strict laws and regulations to protect consumers. And this bill falls far short of providing real help to consumers.

We believe that the best way to support consumers is to establish a single window consumer protection department or agency that would handle all consumer issues. If the government really wants to protect consumers, then it should move forward with credit card regulations and implement regulations that would cap interest rates and eliminate excessive fees paid by consumers.

In closing, I would like to briefly talk about retirement. Many retirees have more and more debt. The population is aging and many people are worried about what we will do for them. The NDP has an effective plan for financial security in retirement. We would strengthen the Canada and Quebec guaranteed pension plans by gradually doubling benefits in an affordable manner to a maximum of $1,920 a month—this is not a gold rush—thereby providing Canadians with an adequate level of guaranteed income during their retirement.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her commitment to bilingualism, which I think is very good. I am trying to learn French myself. It is not going so well, to be perfectly honest, but I am trying. Maybe the next time her speech could be in both French and English. It would be great to see her practise that.

The member said one thing that caught my attention. I appreciate her comment about youth education, but she also said that the Conservative government should do things for job creators, instead of our commitment to lower taxes, to which we are committed. However, the biggest job creator in the country over the last number of years has been in the oil patch. Therefore, oil companies have been the biggest job creators over the last number of years. Is the member advocating for a tax credit for oil companies?

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Burlington.

I could give him some French lessons, if he would like. I strongly believe that all members should be able to speak French, too. I am offering my services. I will help him learn French, because I think it is important.

Now, regarding large corporations, lowering taxes for large corporations is not the right way to create jobs. The Minister of Finance even said so himself this summer. Indeed, the government now realizes that lowering taxes for large corporations does not necessarily result in more jobs.

The solution lies with the NDP's proposal: create tax credits to promote job creation. That is a direct, concrete solution.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I commend the new member from Quebec for her speech. This is not a bad bill that the Conservatives have put forward, but it just does not do enough.

She mentioned food banks. Cape Breton has a lot of food banks and the uptake is increasing, especially over the last few years. It is unbelievable the number of people going to food banks.

Could she expand a bit on what she said about the food banks in her region and that the cause may be some of the policies of the government which have led to an increase of food banks in her region and other places in Quebec?

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it will be my pleasure. I very much appreciate my hon. colleague's comment.

Indeed, it makes no sense that so many people need food banks right now. In my riding of Québec, which usually does pretty well and has a relatively low unemployment rate, the need for food assistance has been doubling or tripling every year. It makes no sense.

This tells us—us parliamentarians, that is—that there is growing social inequality and the poor are getting poorer. Some people are having a hard time paying their rent and others are probably feeling overwhelmed by the high cost of cellphones, and so on. And since they cannot understand everything that is happening around them, they are forced to turn to food banks to make ends meet.

So there is a connection here with Bill C-28. I thank the hon. member for his comment, because we absolutely must address this situation.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Québec, who made a very important link between financial literacy and consumption. Financial products are becoming more and more complicated, and people are getting increasingly confused.

Does the member for Québec not think we should start by simplifying our financial regulations and financial products before teaching people about increasingly complicated products? Would this not promote better knowledge and better use of financial products?

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Louis-Hébert. This is an interesting idea, as is the NDP's suggestion to have an advisory committee, but this suggestion was unfortunately rejected by this government.

Nevertheless, we will continue to push this idea, because an advisory committee, being made up of stakeholders, could help the financial literacy leader make the right decisions.

The idea behind the advisory committee is that two heads are better than one. It is a matter of bringing everyone together to find the best solutions.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for my colleague from Québec.

I am very concerned about household debt, which is reaching record levels. Members of the middle class are getting sucked in to taking on too much debt without necessarily understanding all of the consequences for their future, their old age, their health—they could face expensive health problems—their retirement or the higher education of their children.

Still, I do see this bill as a good thing, a step forward, even if it will not help all Canadians to become aware of the importance of having basic knowledge about banking, taxation and so on.

I would like to know whether my colleague is optimistic enough to believe that this bill will send a shock wave through the Canadian public and help people a little. I am worried that in coming years, Canadian household debt could climb even higher from 160% to 170%.

I am very concerned for the Canadian economy.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very valid point. We can see that the member also has a background in medicine.

With respect to household debt, everything is connected. People are worried, and of course anything can happen, such as health problems. Everything is interrelated. I appreciate the comment.

I, too, am very worried about household debt. I think that things are changing and that this bill is a first step. After Liberal and Conservative governments, the fact that this government is finally waking up to the importance of taking a good look at financial literacy is a good thing. Yes, this is a first step.

But I think the government should go farther. We need to define the mandate of the financial literacy leader more clearly, define what we want, come up with a long-term strategy, create an advisory council and appoint a bilingual financial literacy leader. These elements would follow up on recommendations by the task force and would improve our chances of making more progress.

That would make me feel a little more optimistic.

[Jonathan Tremblay, NDP, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it seems that some people have been forgotten in this bill. The financial literacy leader would be unilingual. What is more, this bill will not change anything for those who have less money to spend on everyday expenses and on private financial products.

Does the hon. member agree with me that it is important that the entire population of Canada be included in this new policy?

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for this suggestion.

I agree with him. Better information is needed.

As I said in my speech, people are overwhelmed with information. They have difficulty distinguishing between all the products that are presented to them, which makes their task much more difficult. It is important that they be better informed. That is the direction that we need to take. I can never say it often enough and so I hope that, in so doing, I will be heard. This could enlighten everyone.

In my opinion, it is important for people to be more knowledgeable, to be more confident as consumers and to be more enlightened on this topic in order to be able to make the right choices.

[The Acting Speaker, Bruce Stanton]

Order. Before I recognize the hon. member for Burnaby—Douglas, I will let him know that we will need to interrupt him at about five minutes to the hour, this being the end of time allocated for government orders this afternoon.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Burnaby—Douglas.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to rise this evening and speak to Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act.

I do support this bill, although with some reservations, which I will speak to. My main concerns are the lack of an advisory council and the lack of inclusiveness. I do think this bill could have been more inclusive. I hope that when the government reviews this piece of legislation, it makes that a primary concern.

In listening to the debate this afternoon, I have wondered about the percentage of our economic trouble that is caused by low financial literacy. If we recount the state we are in at the moment, we have quite low economic growth. Our growth rate has just been reported and downgraded to 1.6%. We have been through a major recession. If we look across the water to Europe, the United Kingdom has been through a double-dip recession. There is all kinds of trouble in Greece and other countries. The United States has been struggling, although there are some signs of a little bit of a pickup there.

What is the cause of the problem? We know that what happened in 2008 was mainly the result of economic turmoil in the United States, where consumers became too indebted and bought into some bad mortgages. The financial institutions in the United States had invented financial tools that enabled mortgages to be bundled and packaged, and sold from institution to institution. Most institutions had no idea what they were buying but just thought it was a great deal. Earnings went up and up with apparently little or no risk. The economy, under the Bush regime, just continued on until we had a crash.

The investors who bought all of these bundled mortgages realized that the mortgages were flawed and faulty, and there was a crash. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and other institutions went under. If we think about that collapse, it not only happened in the United States but went right around the world as well. There was a big increase in unemployment. I read an interesting book written by Gordon Brown on this topic, talking about how global leaders acted very quickly to try to stem a depression, which I think was a real possibility. We are still feeling the effects today.

When I think about this I wonder how much of it was caused by a lack of financial literacy. I would say that very little was. It was really about the large financial institutions that were playing fast and loose with the rules, fooling each other as much as they could to make large profits.

While I see the inherent value of these changes, I do think there is a much larger picture to be taken into account here. I would also say that these things are very unpredictable. In 2008, we had the Minister of Finance on the other side of the House saying that there were no problems with the economy, and all of a sudden we lapsed into a recession.

I would suggest that it is actually the government that needs to sharpen its pencil and take more account of these things, for example, by listening more closely to the Parliamentary Budgetary Officer.

I am disappointed that there was no effort to include an advisory committee in this act. I hope that the government reviews this, perhaps a year into the implementation of the act. The advisory committee would not only bring more eyes to look at this but would also be more inclusive.

I will conclude by talking about the value of inclusion. For example, if labour unions were brought more onboard in this bill, they could go to their memberships and spread the word not only about this new institution but also help increase financial literacy among their members. I really would advise the government to take that into account.

[The Acting Speaker, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member for Burnaby—Douglas will have 15 minutes remaining for his speech when the House resumes debate on the question and, of course, the usual 10 minutes for questions and comments.

It being 5:55 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

The House resumed from October 31 consideration of the motion that Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act, be read a third time and passed.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, despite a certain level of enthusiasm, financial literacy does not necessarily seem the most exciting of subjects. That being said, it is still an extremely important subject. It is important for young people who are beginning to save their money and to understand what is involved in investing and having money, and it is important for retired seniors who must manage their pensions and a significantly lower income now that they are no longer working and are taking their well-deserved retirement.

Following consultations and a study, the government introduced Bill C-28, a bill that would create the position of a leader who would be responsible for the development of financial literacy for Canadians.

Initially, we opposed this bill for the reasons I will set out. However, we will support it at third reading for the reasons that I am also going to take this opportunity to explain.

First of all, we kept up our opposition for a number of reasons. The first point, and it is not the least of them, is that the position would not necessarily be bilingual. As a matter of fact, my colleague from Louis-Saint-Laurent recently put forward a first-rate bill. She has done an outstanding job on this issue. However, even though the incumbent of the position would not be an officer of Parliament, it is necessary that he or she be bilingual. This person will have to interact with people from all linguistic communities, including those in Quebec, where there is a high concentration of people whose mother tongue is French, in New Brunswick, in Eastern Ontario and elsewhere. We must be able to allow people to learn financial literacy skills in the official language of their choice. This is a very important point.

We put forward an amendment to this effect in committee and, unfortunately, it was rejected by the government. Nevertheless, we want to support the bill now because it is a very good start, but we regret that this position, which should have a mandatory bilingual designation, does not. This is a very simple, but a very important, requirement.

The second point, which led to a certain degree of consternation among our members and caused us great concern, is the fact that the people who studied this issue recommended that a board be set up to engage in consultations with the financial literacy leader. The board would be made up of people representing a variety of sectors, such as the financial education sector, unions, financial institutions and so on. The board would engage in consultations with the financial literacy leader and create a system to consult people from all walks of life. This is very important when speaking of financial literacy.

Despite the important role played by financial institutions, when teaching financial literacy to Canadians, it is important not to do so in a way that will benefit only the financial institutions. Financial literacy must consider the diverse realities of individuals and various sectors, such as the unions, and the importance of pensions, for instance. When we talk about financial institutions, there is the size of the investment. When we talk about the people who are in a position to educate Canadians and so on, I think it is very important to have a board involved.

Now we are told, following the committee study, that it is not necessary that the board be established as part of the bill. Just the same, we are concerned about the political will that currently exists on this issue.

I think that the board should be established in the bill. We would require this. Why should we wait? Why should we just hope that the board will be established? I think that if we could include the establishment of the board in the bill, we would already be ahead of the game. We are very concerned about this, but not enough to oppose the passage of the bill. I think we will be taking a big step in the right direction in order to establish a position for beginning Canadians' financial literacy education.

These are the reasons why we were opposed to the bill, but we also believe that we are heading in the right direction. We are comfortable with giving it our support at the moment, but we will continue to push for improvements in the measures in the bill. Now that I have an opportunity to talk about financial literacy and Bill C-28, it would be unfortunate if I missed my chance to explain how this affects the people in my riding.

First of all, I am going to refer to a resident in my riding who works for a financial institution and with whom I often have an opportunity to chat. He has become a very good friend. His name is Jacques Rémy and he is the general manager of the Caisse populaire Desjardins in Beloeil–Mont-Saint-Hilaire. When I sat down with him in my riding one Saturday evening for supper, I had a chance to discuss various problems faced by the residents with regard to their pensions, their retirement and their investments.

One of the major problems at the moment is debt. Many residents are going deeper and deeper into debt. It may not necessarily be the fault of the individual, but there is not enough financial literacy. I do not want to lay the blame on Canadians, but these days, there are so many opportunities to invest, to contribute to savings plans, and to use several credit cards with all the rewards they offer, and all this may be quite difficult to manage. Considering that the cost of living is going up, just like everything else, it can be very easy to wind up in debt, and this has become a very serious problem. As I said, I had a chance to talk about this with Mr. Rémy, who is the general manager of a financial institution, and he is seeing this more and more often.

For instance, in a riding like mine, there is a great deal of hidden poverty. We are a suburb, there are beautiful houses, people sometimes have two or three cars in their driveway, but this does not necessarily mean that they do not have problems with debt that could lead to poverty. As the representative for these people, I think it is so important to promote financial literacy in every way we can, and this is an idea or a value that I share with my colleagues. This is why we are going to support this positive first step, while bearing in mind the extremely important fact that we have to continue improving the measures and the systems already in place.

There is another anecdote involving financial literacy that I would like to tell. Every year, a seniors fair is held in Chambly. This is a very interesting and important event in our community. The agencies serving seniors get together with members of both the National Assembly of Quebec and Parliament in Ottawa. We and the agencies can set up booths where we distribute brochures and give out other types of information, and there are presentations given by community stakeholders.

Last year, when I attended the fair for the first time—I went this year, too—there was an extremely interesting presentation on financial literacy. It focused on, as I said at the beginning of my speech, the best way to manage our pensions, our RRSPs and all the financial resources we have, the money we save and for which we work very hard over the years.

In the case of our seniors, this is well-deserved financial support. Promoting financial literacy and helping our seniors by ensuring that they are able to use the educational tools we can offer them as a government and as representatives is a worthwhile undertaking. Often when we speak of financial literacy, it comes down to explaining how important it is.

When we speak about financial literacy, one of the traps we often fall into is thinking that people are to blame, that they are not educated and not able to manage their money. I cannot emphasize enough that this is absolutely not the issue we are discussing here today. The problem is that people feel overwhelmed by the various investment options available to them.

Seniors often face this problem. They frequently receive telephone calls at home from people offering different types of services. As an aside, these calls are often not legitimate. This is a big problem. It is one of the reasons why we are supporting the government's bill to impose harsher penalties on people who commit crimes against seniors.

That being said, there are many new measures that allow people to invest and to retire relatively easily. It is really important for seniors to be able to rely on someone. That someone could be the person in the position we are creating today, or when the bill is voted on, of course.

This is a troubling issue that also applies to young people. I have spoken about seniors, I have talked about their experience, but there are also young people who are beginning their working lives, who are beginning to learn what it means to have an income and money to spend.

When you are young—I have enough experience to talk about it and to say that we have all been there—you eventually reach a point in your life where you have some independence and you have money to spend for the first time. Once you reach that point, you want to know how to get the most for your money, how to spoil yourself a little, if you can, and also how to make sensible and responsible decisions.

Here again, I am repeating myself, but it is so important to underscore it: I am not trying to say that young people are not able to make sensible decisions or be responsible, but the point is that more and more frequently credit cards are being offered to very young people. When you are very young, you try to learn how to invest in an RRSP, how to invest in that famous retirement pyramid, which consists of RRSPs as well as contributions to a retirement plan. When you reach this point in your life, it is very important to have meaningful support from the government and from various agencies, which will be possible with the creation of a new position with the mandate of promoting financial literacy.

I have been talking about this issue for several minutes now. It is interesting because this shows that financial literacy can mean different things to different people. From my comments, it is clear that this can mean different things to different people of all ages.

We in the NDP firmly believe that a concrete definition of the term “financial literacy” is needed. When a position is created whose mandate is to promote financial literacy and educate citizens, it is crucial that we have a clear definition, as was the case with the infamous “net benefit”. Thus, once greater clarification and precision are brought to the definition, then we can have a leader, someone who is responsible for and able to properly manage the file.

In the past, the lack of a clear definition was one of the reasons we had decided to oppose the bill. However, the pluses outweigh the minuses at this point. Although we would like to see more clarification at this stage, we hope to achieve that in the coming months and years, as this matter evolves. We do still have this concern, and it is very important that it be raised here today.

While I am on the topic of our change in position on this bill, I would also like to explain the other reason we reached this conclusion; it was because of the work done in committee, particularly by our party's consumer protection critic. Financial literacy is extremely important for the protection of consumers, and the hon. member for Sudbury has done an excellent job on this. He meticulously explained to us that when the Standing Committee on Finance began examining this bill and this issue, many witnesses called for the same things that the NDP has been calling for. They had the same concerns and raised the same points that I just mentioned in my speech.

Looking at the work done in committee, it is clear that the witnesses were able to explain to the members the importance of moving forward by taking this first step.

After hearing this testimony, we think it would be a big mistake not to support this first step in the right direction. This testimony also allowed us to confirm the problems with this bill.

This is a good opportunity to emphasize the committee work and the importance of inviting expert witnesses from different backgrounds. Various testimony was given by a diverse group of witnesses, including economists, people representing financial institutions and people representing unions. In my opinion, bringing all these people together to have a serious discussion about something that affects us all, without allowing the discussion to focus too much on one topic and not enough on another, allows us to have a clear view of the overall picture.

Another thing that is very important in all this is ensuring that everyone's interest is served. Last fall and this past spring, we debated a bill whose number escapes me, unfortunately, that would implement another retirement savings account much like an RRSP. When we were discussing this bill, many concerns were raised about the various existing retirement accounts and plans.

We do not want to fall into the same trap. Far too often, people have watched the companies they worked for declare bankruptcy and have ended up losing their pension. We do not want the retirement plans and pensions of people who have worked so hard for so long to be tied to the fate of a company that mismanages its investments and ends up going under. In 2008, at the height of the last recession, this type of situation happened at an alarming rate in the U.S.

That is why we should make financial literacy more of a priority. Doing so would help us start a conversation on these retirement plans, on RRSPs and on all the measures available to us as individuals and workers, regardless of where we work. This allows us to recognize the risks of these measures, so that we may proceed safely. There is nothing worse than working for years, investing and contributing to various retirement plans only to lose that money because of bad decisions made by people at the head of various companies.

That is why we want to be very careful. It is very important to educate Canadians so they have the tools they need to make good decisions about their investments and for their retirement.

I would like to talk about my own experience. As I mentioned earlier, retirement may seem very far away for young people of a certain age who are just starting to work, to have some money and to have these kinds of opportunities. People in their twenties do not think about their pension, but I believe that it is very important to start thinking about it. I always say that pensions are very important to our seniors and those who retire, but they are also important to our young people. We have to realize this and set aside our preconceived ideas about this affecting one group of people more than another or only affecting people of a certain age.

This is an extremely important matter, and I cannot stress that enough. For that reason, we support this bill and we will continue to improve these measures and work on this, so that Canadians can make good investments and have adequate financial security.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is great to see that the federal government has taken an interest in financial literacy to the degree that it has introduced a bill that would, in good part at least, move us forward a little. There is a lot more it could be doing. Part of that responsibility is to work with the different provinces. Provincial governments play a huge role in this whole issue of financial literacy. We could ultimately even pass that down to places such as our school divisions.

Does the member see a role for other ministers, specifically the minister responsible for intergovernmental relations, in taking this important file and advancing it with all provinces in Canada?

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question. He is absolutely right.

In this kind of file, we must definitely work closely with the provinces because they have different programs, which are part of the great retirement investment pyramid. I am from Quebec, which has its own pension plan. That is exactly why we must work with the provinces.

My colleague asked me whether the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs should do something about this. I am sorry to say this but, unfortunately, the minister is not really up to the job these days. However, that is another debate.

My colleague also mentioned schools. He is quite right about that. I spoke about the importance of educating young people who are just heading into the work world. It is very important to have a board made up of people from various backgrounds. We must ensure that educators do not represent only the financial institutions, although they do have a role to play, but that they come from all backgrounds, in order to have a balanced approach that better represents reality.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate and thank the hon. member for Chambly—Borduas for his excellent speech. Financial literacy is not easy to explain. His concrete examples and the excellent work he did in his riding allowed him to explain to us in detail the importance of this bill.

I have a background in education. It is indeed very important to educate and inform people and to ensure that information is distributed, present and available to them so that they can make better decisions, whether we are talking about seniors or young people, as my colleague rightly said. As far as young people are concerned, this is important in terms of their retirement and the fact that they have a higher debt load because of their maxed-out credit cards that charge exorbitant fees, for example.

The hon. member also mentioned the excellent work done by the committee. This work is not always easy. For example, in the case of Bill C-45, we should have had independent studies in various committees of the profound changes being made to various laws, instead of depending on the power of the Standing Committee on Finance.

I want to congratulate my colleague and ask him the following question. Does he think the bill will help improve Canadians' financial knowledge?

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question. I was very happy to see that we were able to change and adapt our position after we heard from the experts in committee. That is the purpose of committees and it shows just how important they are.

As for his question regarding our support for the bill and whether it is truly a good thing, as I have said many times, it is a step in the right direction, but there is still a lot to be done. At the same time, like with Bill C-44, which we debated this morning, our support should not be misinterpreted. If we support a bill, it does not necessarily mean that we are happy with it and do not think there is still a lot of work to do. There is a difference there and it is important to point that out.

I also thank my colleague for sharing the education perspective. That is extremely important. As I have said many times, when we educate people, we must be very careful, because we must respect their intelligence, their own responsibilities and their ability to invest. We must not fall into the trap of the one-way street, meaning that we must not talk only about savings. We must make people understand the realities of our financial systems and show them how they can use these systems to secure their retirement and bring in positive returns on their investments.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his speech.

As a party, the NDP has always worked towards eliminating poverty in Canada. I would like to hear my colleague's comments on that. If people were better informed of their financial rights and if they had more answers and clearer information on finance in general, would that reduce poverty?

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his question because this is exactly why we are saying that there is still a long way to go.

This is the kind of education, the kind of work that a government and MPs can do, in co-operation with all the other authorities, to help people escape poverty and make the most of the means at their disposal. Bearing in mind the objective of eliminating poverty, something that we as members of Parliament are trying to do, we must continue pushing ahead with this issue, with developing the concept and clarifying the definition of financial literacy and the mandate of the financial literacy leader, the position this bill would create. It is completely relevant.

As I said in my speech when I commented on debt, very often, people who are in debt do not appear to be poor. This problem is specific to poverty, particularly in my riding, Chambly—Borduas. It is a very dangerous path. It is also what is known as a slippery slope: people can get into debt, and that can exacerbate the problem of poverty.

We can resolve the problem of debt, or at least we can do our part. We will certainly not resolve it overnight. However, once people can get proper financial literacy education, we will be able to do our part to try to resolve this issue, which is increasingly present in our society and which, I believe, is a form of hidden poverty that is of great concern.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I rise to speak to Bill C-28. Off-hand, there are a couple of good reasons to speak in favour of the bill.

First, it is a step forward, as we acknowledge within the Liberal Party. We did have concerns during second reading, but many of those concerns were addressed at committee. We are pleased with the responses that we heard at committee and in the other discussions that have taken place since second reading, which ultimately bring us to where we are today. We recognize that the bill does take us forward.

The other thing that I like about this particular bill is that it points out the difference in good part between the government and the Liberal Party. On the one hand, the Conservatives have recognized that there is a need to deal with the issue, but on the other hand, they are not coming up with any sort of comprehensive plan. They did not really show evidence of any meetings with stakeholders prior to the bill coming to the House at first reading. It is almost as if they had an idea, or someone within the party had an idea, and they kept it to themselves and then tabled the bill.

Within the Liberal Party, we believe that the bill could have been so much better. Had the government actually held some consultations with different stakeholders, I believe that we would be looking at a much more detailed plan today as to where we should be going.

Financial literacy and education is critically important. We have to look at education in terms of it going beyond the House of Commons simply passing Bill C-28. That is why I referred to the stakeholders.

I might have referred in the past to the fact that I was the education critic in the Province of Manitoba. There are many battles that take place within education about what should and should not be part of the curriculum. People want to emphasize, for example, the importance of language arts and mathematics, and justifiably so. When our students graduate from high school, we want them to have a basic understanding of the language arts, mathematics and a number of other areas.

At the end of the day, we are suggesting that financial literacy is critically important. However, when we look at how we would disseminate that information, it is a huge mistake for us not to take into consideration the important role that other stakeholders have to play. That is why I bring up the whole area of education.

When we talk about leadership, we want leadership from the government in dealing with this very important issue. However, we are not just hoping to see legislation before the House, but also a government that is actively promoting and encouraging dialogue with the different stakeholders.

That is why I posed my question in regards to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, because this is somewhat time sensitive. This is an interesting issue and we brought it up today in question period. We must ask ourselves: To what degree does that particular minister now have responsibility in regard to this legislation?

It would appear that the bill has the support of all members of the House and will pass. I do not know for sure, but we will find out when the bill is actually voted on. However, what do we do after we have passed the legislation?

What is the next step? I understand and appreciate that the primary purpose of this legislation is to create a financial literacy leader. That is great, but along with that we need to recognize the importance of education and reaching out to the different stakeholders.

It is not good enough to just say, “Here is the idea, let us put it to the House and have the House vote on it” and then leave it at that. There is a responsibility for officials, like the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, to go out and meet with different representatives of government, different levels of government, to say, “Here is what is happening in the House. Here is the type of thing we think we could move forward on. What do you think as a provincial entity?”

We need to recognize that different departments are involved. A provincial jurisdiction will have a department of consumer and corporate affairs. There will also be departments of education and other departments that one might want to consider. There may even be different departments within the national government itself that would have a vested interest in this whole subject matter.

I have referred to school divisions. Even our municipalities, whether large municipalities or cities, or small, rural municipalities, all have a vested interest, even in distributing information on tax rolls, and so forth, so that people can understand what a tax roll is and the obligations to pay a property tax and how that is done through automatic banking if one chooses.

There are all sorts of reasons why all these different government agencies have a vested interest. I would suggest that we need go even beyond that. We have to look at the private sector and the important role it has to play. It is not just about the banking industry or our top banks, because some of the most progressive policy today regarding finances and consumer awareness is actually coming from our credit unions, our co-ops. Those are private companies or corporations that have seen the merit of consumer awareness or financial literacy. The private sector obviously has a critical role to play in this, and we need to encourage that ongoing support.

I did not make reference to the non-profit sector, but obviously that sector also has a role to play. I remember meeting with representatives of Winnipeg Harvest, the largest food distribution centre for people who just do not have the ability to pay for all of their food and have to go to Winnipeg Harvest as a result. I have talked to representatives of Winnipeg Harvest about the issue of finances. Non-profit organizations have a great talent pool, including social planning councils.

Whether it is government, non-profit agencies or the private sector, all have a role to play in financial literacy. Nevertheless, I would suggest that there is only one real authority with the most significant leadership role to play, and that of course is here within the House of Commons

We need to see a government that is committed to doing more than just bringing in Bill C-28 to creates a financial literacy leader. We need to ensure there is a lot more than just that. Nonetheless, it is good that the government has brought this bill before us today and we will be supporting it at third reading, because see it as a move forward.

We believe that it will add to the importance of education on a very important issue. However, we do not want the government members to sit back and say they have done enough because there is a lot more that needs to be done.

Things have changed dramatically. It was not that long ago that teenagers would open up a bank account by providing a couple of pieces of ID. They could deposit or take money out of the bank and it was pretty simple. Loans and credit cards were more challenging at that early age, but the point is that they went to the bank. All of a sudden we have phone banking systems where you can register your bills and make payments and do transactions over the telephone. Prior to that we could make automatic deposits or withdrawals to pay our monthly bills, and now it is through the website. A vast majority now do their banking online.

I should be careful when I say a vast majority because I do not know that for a fact. I suspect as we continue to move forward, we will get a good, solid majority of people banking online. However, I know there are many people today who refuse to use the technology, sometimes for very good reason. They choose to have a face-to-face connection with the teller or to walk to the bank.

Things are changing and they are changing rapidly. We need to recognize that change. With that change all sorts of other issues arise such as credit cards and the amount of money paid in interest and service charges on credit cards. If a 19-year-old or even a 40-year-old is given a credit card, especially at this time of the year with consumer spending expected to increase significantly, those credit cards are very attractive little pieces of plastic. It does not take too much to accrue a significant amount of money on that piece of plastic.

Now stores have gift cards. People purchase them as a Christmas gift or as a holiday gift. Many gift cards have a short period of time before they expire and many consumers are not aware of that. These are the types of things that have an impact. This is why it is so very important that we recognize education is of critical importance. We need to ensure that whether people are 16 years old in high school, or 30 years old working on a factory floor or working in an office, there is an advocate talking about what is happening and what consumers can do to protect themselves. We must ensure that there is someone who is on the consumers' side, ensuring their rights and that they are not being taken advantage of or exploited.

In 2001 we saw the creation of the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, which I thought was a great initiative of the former prime minister, Jean Chrétien, and his government. It was in direct response to what was happening in the real world. Gift cards were coming out big time back then and there was very little consumer knowledge about them. At least the government back in 2001 recognized the importance of consumer education and created that agency. There is a great deal to be learned if we go to its website. I have encouraged constituents to visit it.

We recognize that the government has seen the agency's merit. It has proven itself because it has now stood the test of time. Even though the Liberals brought it in, the Conservatives have now been in for a number of years and they have recognized the value of the agency because the legislation that we have before us today, Bill C-28, would create a financial literacy leader who would be reporting to the Commissioner of the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada.

Today, under the Conservative banner, we see the Government of Canada recognizing that what Jean Chrétien and the Liberals created back in 2001 was a good idea. We find that governments at different levels are on board with respect to that particular agency. I believe that tying the new literacy leader to this agency will be a good thing and it will give more credibility to the financial literacy leader and the office that no doubt will follow.

I know that Canadians are very concerned about debt and the overall debt that Canadians have today, and we should be concerned. Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of Canada, raised the issue of just how much debt there really is. The number that I have heard is $1.63 for every dollar of annual income. That is significant. From what I understand, the Governor of the Bank of Canada has highlighted the point that it is a record high for consumer debt.

The government does have to take some responsibility for that record, and I do not say that lightly. It was the current Minister of Finance who introduced the 40-year mortgage, which did not even require a minimum down payment. Even though the Conservatives have learned their lesson and are bringing it back to 25 years, that 40-year mortgage contributed to the overall debt ratio that Canadians have today.

The bottom line is that government does play a role. Financial literacy is important and we in the Liberal Party have recognized that. We are supporting the bill because it does move us forward, although not very much, but we are prepared to support it at third reading.

We encourage the government to do more. If it wants some good ideas, it can always turn to the opposition members, particularly members of the Liberal Party who would be more than happy to share our ideas. We recognize how important it is to talk about financial literacy.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on the very last point that my colleague made with regard to the level of household debt in our country. There is no question that the level of household debt has ballooned and this is one of the reasons that undoubtedly prompted the government to say there was a need for greater financial literacy. What is ironic is that the level of household debt was caused, in part, by the decision of the Conservative government to introduce 40-year mortgages with no down payments.

My hon. colleague said that the appointment of a financial literacy officer was a good first step. Given that the situation we are in is not one that is entirely separate from the policies of the government, what measures would he propose because there is more that we could do? Could he go through some of the measures that we could undertake over and above the appointment of a financial literacy officer?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the most important thing the government could do would be to have a ministerial meeting on the issue of financial literacy. The government has an obligation to not only recognize an issue, but to consult with people, different organizations, whether it is the government or private sector, to see how it can take a more collective approach to ensure we maximize the amount of financial literacy programming. Not only would people in schools be educated, but there would also be the potential of educating people within the working environment. Whether one is 40 years old or 16 years old, that individual is being taught some sort of financial literacy. Hopefully the financial literacy officer would take a look at those types of initiatives to encourage that.

I made reference to the $1.63 of debt for every $1 annually that a person has. That is very close to what it was for the Americans at the time in which they had the huge housing crisis. I am not trying to raise a red flag unnecessarily, but I would suggest that people should take note that the Governor of the Bank of Canada, Mark Carney, raised the issue. We should be listening and taking appropriate action, especially on government policy.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to ask another question on this issue.

I have to say that the committee did a fine job. I was not there, but I heard about it. The NDP proposed six amendments in all, while the Liberals and the Conservatives did not suggest one single amendment.

One of the amendments put forward by the NDP was that the legislation should express explicitly that the incumbent of this position should be bilingual. As we have seen in the case of the Auditor General of Canada, a unilingual anglophone holds this position. However, right now, it seems he is making an effort at least to learn the second official language.

As I did not attend the committee, I would like to know whether the Liberals supported this amendment to ensure that the legislation states explicitly that the position should be filled by someone who is bilingual.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Party has made a very strong statement on the Auditor General, second to no other statement, saying that in positions of this nature it is a mistake not to have someone who is bilingual. I hope the Conservatives have learned a lesson on that particular issue. We will have to wait and see what they do.

In regard to the amendments, after bills pass out of second reading the Liberal Party approaches committees very seriously. We listen to what people have to say. In some bills, amendments are moved and in others they are not. With the first omnibus bill, the Liberals introduced over 400 amendments inside the House on third reading and the NDP did zero. It fluctuates. Sometimes we move amendments. It depends on the critics. A lot depends on what other amendments are being moved. Sometimes an amendment that is moved by one opposition party has the support of the other opposition party.

If there is a good idea and we feel it would make the bill better, we would support the amendment. It is unfortunate that the Conservatives did not make some of the changes some of their colleagues suggested. I suspect we might have even voted for some of those amendments. As I acknowledged at the very beginning, the bill would be just a small step in an area in which we need to make some significant steps.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member indicated that a key part to increasing financial literacy would be co-operation among the provinces.

When we look at the record of the Conservative government in terms of dealing with the provinces, we have a Prime Minister who will not meet with the provincial ministers as a group. We have a Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs who does all his work either in Ottawa or in Labrador. We have a Minister of Finance who says to the provinces, “Here is what you are getting for health care”. That is the Conservatives' idea of federal-provincial co-operation. We have changes to old age security that would increase the welfare rolls in the provinces; changes in EI that are going to increase the welfare rolls in the provinces; changes in crime legislation that are going to increase costs in the provinces.

Given the state of federal-provincial relations in this country, could the member explain his level of optimism that this would achieve its objective, given the necessity of working together between the provincial and federal levels of government to get it done?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I started my speech by saying that one of the things I like about the bill is that it shows a difference between the Conservatives and the Liberal Party of Canada.

The members of the Liberal Party of Canada believe that in order to adequately deal with financial literacy in our country, in order to get the job done and get it done right, we need to work with the provinces, the different stakeholders including school divisions and so forth, and the private sector. That means having ministers who actually go out and meet with their provincial counterparts, the Prime Minister having a first ministers' meeting and so forth.

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

I regret having to interrupt the hon. member for Winnipeg North at this time. It being 1:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

The House resumed from November 8 consideration of the motion that Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act, be read the third time and passed.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the points of order we heard are very technical but yet very interesting.

First, with your permission, I would like to share my time with the hon. member for Pontiac. It is always an honour to speak in the House about bills, in this case, Bill C-28, the Financial Literacy Leader Act. The incumbent of this position would report to the Commissioner of the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada. Given that I already spoke about this bill at second reading, today, I am going to speak more specifically about the amendments that were tabled by my colleagues when this bill was examined by the Standing Committee on Finance.

I can only express my sincere disappointment that the Conservative members rejected the six amendments that were tabled by my NDP colleagues. It is always sad to see how little the Conservatives are willing to co-operate. Although all six amendments were relevant, two of them were particularly vital: the one pertaining to the bilingualism of the financial literacy leader and the one pertaining to the creation of an advisory council.

The following are comments by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance when my colleague from Sudbury tabled our three amendments during the committee hearing. The third amendment would ensure that the financial literacy leader would be bilingual.

In answer, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance said, “That's a huge priority for this government. This is why we continue to put forward policies that support that”. She also mentioned, “I would also say that in choosing a financial literacy leader, we do want to make sure there is merit that goes with any appointment”.

With both of those comments, there is a blatant contradiction between the fact that she acknowledged that the literacy leader should be bilingual, but on the other hand that the language skills were not mandatory for that position. We have seen that contradiction in many nominations by the Conservative government. It demonstrates that, for the government, language skills and namely the ability to speak French are not part of the merit that is required to get these positions.

For Quebec members of Parliament, this is a real problem because it gives us the impression that the government is always telling us the same thing about bilingualism—that it is going to appoint a person based on merit and then ask that person to learn French. This sends a message that linguistic ability is not among the prerequisites and skills required to be appointed to these positions. As a member of Parliament from Quebec, I find this to be a completely unacceptable message. That is what I had to say about the first amendment.

The second amendment that the hon. member for Sudbury proposed involved the creation of an advisory council in accordance with the second recommendation of the financial literacy task force. This was one of the 30 recommendations this task force made. We see that, in this bill, only one of those recommendations was taken into account, that of creating the position of financial literacy leader.

Once again, this bill leaves much to be desired. In fact, it is really just an empty shell, considering that, out of 30 recommendations, the government acted on only one: the creation of this position.

We often hear the government argue that this bill calls for the creation of a website. The government seems to think that websites have magical powers. That is the answer we always get any time we ask the ministers about the cuts made to public service positions responsible for answering questions from the public. We are often told that people can simply consult the website, because all of the information is there. That is more or less what we have heard from the government members who have spoken on this.

Furthermore, people have a tendency to forget that we can teach financial literacy to Canadians and enhance their knowledge, but there is no point in explaining how to manage their money if they have no money to manage. Sometimes they have no money because the banking system is sucking up such a huge amount of money.

I would like to give some of the figures from Canadian banks, which, as we know, have a virtual monopoly. Let us look at the banks' profits after taxes—not the total business but the profits. The profits of Canadian banks have increased from less than $10 billion—or to be more specific, $9.7 billion—in 2000 to over $25 billion in 2011.

Twenty-five billion dollars for a population of approximately 35 million represents $700 per person. In other words, on average, a family of four gives $3,000 to Canadian banks. I see that the members opposite find that completely acceptable. They would say that this is a sign that the banking system is well managed. However, for me, it is a sign that we are all being swindled by the banks since they are charging ridiculous interest rates in certain cases, particularly in the case of credit cards.

I would like to remind you of a proposal that was made and has been supported by the NDP for a number of years. We proposed that credit card interest rates be limited to 5% above the Bank of Canada's key lending rate, which has been at 1% since September 2010. Then, instead of having interest rates of 25% or 26% in some cases, an NDP government would legislate to have these rates limited to 6%.

This would allow credit companies to continue to be very profitable and make huge amounts of money while ensuring that people with the worst credit ratings, the most disadvantaged in our society, would not be charged exorbitant credit rates. These people have to borrow money through channels that give them the highest interest rates. Since they do not have a good credit rating, they cannot take out a line of credit, for example, which has a much lower interest rate.

In conclusion, since I have only 30 seconds left, I would like to say that it is with great disappointment that I am going to support this bill at third reading. The main reason for my support is that we cannot oppose the basic principle of at least creating the position of financial literacy leader. I think this bill is an incredible waste of time and energy for Parliament. The bill looks good but it does very little.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the hon. member's very interesting speech.

He obviously showed that there are a number of problems with financial literacy in Canada and that the measures proposed by the government do not fully address them.

My question for him is very simple: what could we have done to truly contribute to the financial health and literacy of Canadians?

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I noted this regarding one of the amendments proposed by my colleague from Sudbury, who was sitting on the Standing Committee on Finance at the time. He proposed the creation of an advisory committee.

One of his recommendations called for this advisory committee to be made up of stakeholders from different backgrounds who were familiar with the population and who would be able to provide tools and suggestions and could also exercise oversight over the financial literacy leader.

This would allow for some oversight, instead of a single person being in charge of providing a better financial education for Canadians.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I was interested in my colleague's comment that the NDP put forward six what he considered to be reasonable amendments at the committee and not a single one was favoured with a supportive vote by my colleagues in the ruling Conservative Party. In fact, not a single amendment has ever been allowed to any piece of legislation in the 41st Parliament. Even at times when the Conservatives know full well that the amendments have merit, they act and behave as if they have some kind of monopoly on all wisdom, all knowledge and all good ideas. At times the minister has had to get up at report stage and introduce the very same things that they voted down at the committee stage. They must find that embarrassing, to be hoisted with their own petard in that way.

I am interested in the quote by the member for Saint Boniface. Does it not seem to be contradictory that she spoke in favour of the same principle that my colleague put forward in the amendment? Does my colleague have any explanation for such contradictory behaviour by the parliamentary secretary?

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, absolutely, this is a blatant contradiction. The parliamentary secretary said that it is a huge priority for the government to have bilingual appointments and a few minutes later the very same member voted against that amendment. It is a contradiction that I do not have an explanation for. The only suspicion I have is that Conservatives want the possibility to make appointments of people they know are not bilingual and who will only have to pretend that they will learn French in the future.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we all know that Canadians' lack of savings and the Conservatives' increasing debt are symptoms of the disparity between the increase in the cost of living and the increase in salaries, rather than symptoms of financial illiteracy.

I would like my colleague to explain how a bill that would create this position will help Canadians if it does not take into consideration the 29 recommendations made by the task force.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert is absolutely right.

Furthermore, during the committee hearings, the following question was raised: could the agency commissioner appoint someone to carry out exactly the same duties without having the title? The departmental official responded yes, but that a legislative appointment carried more prestige and made the position more official.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first we must define the problem.

Let us define the issue here. This may seem like an anodyne bill, but in fact at its core it has a very essential contribution to make. It is really a question of fundamental literacy. We can talk about literacy in general terms with regard to reading a book or a document, but literacy goes fundamentally deeper than that. Literacy eventually is also an issue of justice.

I found a particular quote from Globe and Mail finance columnist, Rob Carrick, which is quite revealing about this particular bill. He says, “it's disappointing to see banks, advice firms, investment dealers and mutual fund companies treated solely like part of the solution to the lack of financial literacy in Canada, and not part of the problem as well—

[The Acting Speaker, Bruce Stanton]

Order, please.

The hon. member for Pontiac has the floor. If hon. members wish to engage in other conversations I certainly invite them to perhaps share some time in their respective lobbies.

The hon. member for Pontiac.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat the quote that I was attempting to read by the finance columnist from The Globe and Mail, Rob Carrick. He wrote something that I think is quite revealing. He said:

--it's disappointing to see banks, advice firms, investment dealers and mutual fund companies treated solely like part of the solution to the lack of financial literacy in Canada, and not part of the problem as well.

We need to recognize that financial institutions and banks in this country have an extremely powerful role to play with regard to persuasion over Canadians. It is that persuasion that could be used rightly or wrongly to affect the financial lives of Canadians.

As well, members should keep in mind the glaring statistic that 26% of Canadians struggle with even the most basic numeracy and 56% do not have high enough levels of numeracy to demonstrate the skills and knowledge associated with the ability to function well in Canadian society. Keeping that fact in mind, we should all be worried. We should also be worried about the high level of domestic debt. This problem needs to be addressed.

HRSDC reveals that the relevant statistics for financial literacy are 20% and 48%. If we compare that with the United States, Canada has one of the highest levels of annual costs for equity funds, which is 2.31% compared to 0.94% in the U.S. It is no wonder banks want more customers.

The highest earning 11% of Canadians contribute more to RRSPs than the bottom 89% of tax filers combined. Canadian taxpayers subsidized those RRSPs to the tune of $7.3 billion in annual net tax expenditures.

To continue with some interesting statistics, 30% of Canadian families lack any retirement savings outside of the Canadian pension plan. Also, as I mentioned before, Canadian household debt is at 150% of income and 25% of Canadians increased their debt load over the past year. In the last quarter, the CPP outperformed the markets by a margin of 10 to 1.

Why am I referring to all of these statistics? It is because what we are discussing with the bill is the relationship of power between the average Canadian citizen's knowledge of the financial system and that of the banks in this country. If we do not empower Canadian citizens with the ability to understand the financial system and what financial institutions impose on them, then we are on a slippery slope.

The measure proposed by Bill C-28 is a good one. However, from our perspective, it is not enough.

For example, we are concerned that there is no explicit requirement that the incumbent of this position be bilingual. And yet, we live in a country with two official languages.

We believe that the person responsible for improving financial literacy throughout Canada must be able to communicate in both French and English. The minister of state has assured us that the incumbent will be bilingual, but the Conservatives are refusing to put this in the legislation. That worries us.

The conclusions of the task force on financial literacy clearly state that the financial literacy leader must be kept apprised of the situation by an advisory council consisting of representatives of the industry, unions, educators, government and voluntary organizations from across Canada. This provision is included in this bill and will prevent the participation of a number of partners following implementation of financial literacy. The Financial Consumer Agency of Canada and the government have said that an advisory council will be established, but that this does not require legislation. This is confusing.

At committee stage, we proposed some amendments in order to address some of the shortcomings. We proposed that the requirement of bilingualism be added—we did ask for that—that a definition of financial literacy be added and that more responsibility be given to the incumbent of the position to be created.

However, the Conservatives rejected our amendments. Stakeholders told us that creating this position is better than the status quo. The government has at least agreed to create this position. In light of the fact that the expenses related to this position were approved in the 2012 budget, we support the bill. We will nevertheless continue to push the government to go further. Even though it has taken a small step in the right direction, there is still a long way to go.

How could we improve the situation? Financial literacy is an important aspect of consumer protection. The fact that many Canadians do not have savings and the rise in consumer debt are symptoms of the discrepancy between the rise in the cost of living and salaries, not financial illiteracy.

Too many Canadians are living paycheque to paycheque. This situation proves that the government is not taking a leadership role and that it is incapable of addressing issues that are truly important to Canadians. The government has never implemented strict laws and regulations to protect consumers. This bill falls far short of providing any real help to consumers.

We believe that the best way to support consumers is to establish a single-window consumer protection department or agency that would handle all consumer issues. If the government really wants to protect consumers, then it should move forward with credit card regulations, for instance, and implement important regulations that would cap interest rates and eliminate the excessive fees paid by consumers.

We in the NDP have a better plan in mind for financial security for retirement. We need to strengthen the Canada and Quebec guaranteed pension plans by gradually doubling benefits in an affordable manner to a maximum of $1,920 a month, thereby providing Canadians with an adequate level of guaranteed income during their retirement.

However, the government and politicians basically need to ensure that Canadians are educated and have access to financial training, as well as ensure that Canadians are protected, particularly from the banks, credit card companies and other financial institutions such as insurance companies, and the power they can hold over Canadians' lives. To that end, those institutions need to be properly controlled through legislation that focuses on the common good.

[Jonathan Tremblay, NDP, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague made an excellent speech on what specific impact this will have on the public.

However, something has been bothering me since I have been listening to my colleagues debate this bill. There is unfortunately no mention of bilingualism in the hiring criteria for the financial literacy leader.

I have to wonder: do French and English use the same terms to talk about financial literacy?

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we can all agree that this is a rather complex field of study. It is clear that the vocabulary is not the same in the two languages. I am bilingual and have lived in Ottawa my whole life—or at least much of my life—and I find it rather difficult to compare the French and English terminology when it comes to financial matters.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to my brilliant colleague's speech on this bill.

We all know that this bill does not contain a strategy to ease the debt burden on Canadians. This bill only legalizes the position. Of the 30 recommendations made by the task force, the Conservatives acted on only one, which was to legalize the creation of this position.

I would like my colleague to expand on his idea. How does he think this could help Canadian families with their debt load, knowing that some are living paycheque to paycheque?

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is quite right.

First, it does not contain a definition of financial literacy. We should first define financial literacy. Furthermore, there is no accountability measure, and no initiatives to increase financial literacy.

Furthermore, the recommendation to create an advisory council composed of union representatives, among others, was not retained. In my opinion, the suggestions we made in committee would improve this bill and help protect Canadians.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, one of the concerns about the bill overall is, as the member has pointed out, that it is very far removed from consumer protection.

One of the things I have always been concerned about over the years because of the riding I represent is protection, particularly for low income people who, in the first place, have difficulty accessing regular services at financial institutions. The protection they have is very minimal.

I just wonder if the member could comment on whether he has had any similar experiences in his own riding where people who are on fixed or very low incomes have a very difficult time with financial institutions and they absolutely need protection.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Absolutely, Mr. Speaker, that has definitely been the experience in my riding.

Most statisticians would say that there is a relationship between the level of education, poverty and literacy, so we are talking about compounding situations. If our literacy AND education is low, it is perhaps more difficult to understand the financial system.

My hon. colleague is completely right that statistics are worrying. We are talking about 30% of families that lack any retirement savings. The average Canadian household debt is 150% of income and Canadians' debt load has increased by 25%. We know that a lot of those Canadians are either working poor or poor. It is truly unfortunate. We would hope that we would have a more compassionate government that would address this issue.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I would advise the Chair that I will be splitting my time on this bill, which is a bill to establish a financial literacy leader so-called, which is one of 30 recommendations of a task force on financial literacy. It is rather unfortunate that only 1 of the 30 recommendations were followed because this is really just a very minor or modest first step in what is required.

The problem of course is that many financial literacy programs often devolve into simply admonitions for individuals to save more money, which is an impossible situation for many people. In fact, most people going into retirement, for example, 30% have nothing more than CPP for their retirement plans. We have the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development suggesting that people should save more for an extra two years for retirement. It is totally inadequate.

I see I have only a short time to give this speech and I would encourage my colleagues to ask some questions and make some comments to allow me to speak a little more.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to literacy in general, we know that 43% of the population has level 3 or lower reading skills. This portion of the population already has difficulty reading. Financial literacy could perhaps help somewhat, but if people cannot read, there may be measures, other than financial literacy initiatives, that would better help people to help themselves financially.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague points to a real inconsistency by the Conservative government in suggesting that financial literacy is so important that we should undertake this task. It is preaching financial literacy now, but back in 2006 it cut nearly $18 million from adult literacy programs across the country. This is a bit of a fig leaf for the Conservatives' inaction, frankly, on the real problems of literacy in this country and its failure to protect consumers and build a better regulatory framework.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as I listened to my colleague's brief speech I realized something: this government does not really understand Canadians' economic situation.

It is well and good to educate people. However, will passing this bill to create this position not result in advertising for banks across Canada? I would like my colleague to talk more at length about this issue.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague asked an important question. As Barrie McKenna, a business columnist with The Globe and Mail, stated:

Looking to financial literacy to fill the void is like asking ordinary Canadians to be their own brain surgeons and airline pilots. The dizzying array of financial products, mixed with chaotic and increasingly irrational financial markets, makes the job of do-it-yourself financial planning almost impossible—no matter how literate you are.

What happens, of course, is that this is just driving people into the institutions that have financial products. In this country, we pay two and three times as much on management fees in the private sector than in the Canada pension plan, which is a better way of saving for Canadians.

We have a problem. It is considered to be a very small first step, but one that requires leadership from the government. We are not sure we are going to get it, but we think this is a start that ought to be made.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Resuming debate.

Is the House ready for the question?

[Some hon. members]

Question.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Hearing no nays, I therefore declare the motion carried.

(Bill read the third time and passed)