Bill S-16 (Historical)

Tackling Contraband Tobacco Act

An Act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco)

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to create a new offence of trafficking in contraband tobacco and to provide for minimum penalties of imprisonment for repeat offenders.

Tackling Contraband Tobacco Act

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his very eloquent remarks on this bill. He ended his remarks by talking about consultation. Today is the fifth anniversary of the apology to first nations for the residential schools. We have seen no action on this issue, after five long years. First nations children are still being treated as second-class citizens and getting 30% less funding for their education because the Conservative government has not acted.

Can the member elaborate on the consultation with first nations peoples with respect to this issue of contraband tobacco? Certainly the current government is not one to consult with first nations or with provinces or with constituencies who are not automatically rubber-stamping their agenda.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Parkdale—High Park for her question.

That is in fact a question that should be asked. We know that there is a direct impact on the communities in this case. We want to examine this in committee to see who was consulted and how the consultations were done.

Some band councils, including the Kahnawake and Akwesasne band councils, have said they were not consulted about this.

We want to examine the bill and see what we can do.

We must not forget that the main recommendation by the National Assembly was to initiate a consultation to find a win-win solution.

Is Bill S-16 that win-win solution? We have to wonder. That is why we want to examine it in committee.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, this bill is about contraband tobacco. It is something that I know, in my 19 years as a police officer, was quite substantially a problem in Manitoba where I am from.

I am quite disturbed by the question put forward just a moment ago by the member from the NDP with regard to aboriginal people. Contraband tobacco actually does harm aboriginal people, particularly in Manitoba.

When that member says that this government has not taken action on things like the apology to the residential school survivors, she has misspoken. That member has unequivocally been dishonest about that. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission has worked very hard. This government has provided funding to ensure that the victims of that terrible tragedy have had the benefit of being able to move forward. Of course we did that because it was the right thing to do. I want to correct the record for those at home who care intimately about this issue, as I do.

I want to ask the member opposite, who is supposed to be speaking about tobacco, how the tobacco that is coming to our communities as contraband negatively impacts our communities, especially, for example, our convenience store owners; that includes aboriginal convenience store owners.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree that it does have an effect on our community and it has an effect on our children. When we talk about contraband also helping organized crime and when we talk about contraband tobacco coming from other countries, that is definitely an issue.

Where I do not agree with what my colleague has mentioned is the fact that nothing seems to have been done in terms of consultation with first nations regarding this bill. That was the number one recommendation from a study from the National Assembly of Quebec. It was put forth by the coalition to have a conversation and a collaboration where everyone would sit down to try to find a solution where everyone wins, instead of just coming up with a bill. From what I understand, first nations have not been consulted. We want to ensure that there is an ongoing conversation. However, so far, from what we understand and have seen in terms of meeting with first nations, most of them have not been consulted.

We definitely want to find solutions. If it is important for the current government to actually help first nations, why are the Conservatives not giving the resources for first nations to police on the reserves, so that they actually tackle the real issues? Having a bill does not always help, if they do not have the resources.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in reference to what the hon. member for St. Boniface just said, one of the first cuts under the current administration was the elimination of the program on first nations reserves to deal with tobacco addictions. That was very poorly received by a lot of chiefs, who spoke to me about it.

We also know that the Ontario government has taken the approach of consulting with the community at Kanesatake and Kahnawake to set up a co-operative program.

It strikes me, from the remarks of my hon. colleague, that the federal approach of imposing the bill, as much as we would all like to see the end of illegal activity in contraband tobacco, may not have the desired effect if there has been no effort at co-operation first. I would like his comments on that.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is why we want to look at it at committee, to see what has been done and the solutions that have been proposed. We all know we need to tackle the issue of contraband, but we want to know whether Bill S-16 is the right tool to tackle the issue.

There are a lot of questions in terms of what consultation there was before coming up with the bill. We want to also hear from experts. We want to hear from people who are in the business and are dealing with this problem on whether this bill is what they need. That is why we want to study it at committee.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Minister of Citizenship]

Mr. Speaker, I recall announcing the intention to introduce this legislation during the last election campaign, with the support of convenience store owners in Canada, particularly the Canadian-Korean convenience store owners whose businesses have been ravaged by the huge flow of illegal contraband cigarettes. I know they will be very disappointed to hear the NDP's opposition to the bill.

As with any effort such as this, the NDP members always have a useless process objection. They want more consultation. My question is, consultation with whom exactly? They talk about Kahnawake. We know there is massive, widespread, multi-million-dollar, hugely profitable criminal smuggling happening in some of these places. Is he suggesting that we should consult with the smugglers?

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in my opinion, the minister’s attitude clearly demonstrates the arrogance of the government. On the question of consultations, a study was done. The National Assembly of Quebec, a government, recommended working not only with the first nations, but also with the federal and provincial governments and the Government of the United States. That clearly demonstrates that the Conservatives do not want to hear anything, that they are following their ideology and imposing their own vision.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

It being 5:30 p.m, the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business, as listed on today's order paper.

Bill S-16--Time Allocation Motion

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I move:

That, in relation to Bill S-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco), not more than one further sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration at second reading stage of the Bill; and

that, 15 minutes before the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders on the day allotted to the consideration at second reading stage of the said Bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this Order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the Bill shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

There will now be a 30 minute question period. The hon. member for Skeena--Bulkley Valley.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Here we are again, Mr. Speaker. It is incredible. I am amazed by the fact that the government House leader has to actually read these orders. He has said them so many times that certainly, they must be put to memory by now.

We are just checking with the Table, but we think this is the 48th time the government has invoked time allocation, which is a way of shutting down debate. It does not really matter whether the official opposition agrees with a bill or whether we have negotiated a timely and orderly fashion for the bill to pass through the House, it is irrelevant. The facts do not interfere with the government's ideology when it comes to Parliament and debating legislation.

This is an important piece of legislation. We had a grand total of 15 minutes of debate last night on this one. Fifteen minutes seems to be sufficient time for the government to understand that something so controversial as this issue is enough for the House to make its decision and pass it on to committee.

This is the way that mistakes are made. When legislation is rammed through Parliament, particularly legislation that would seriously impact Canadians and the communities we represent, big mistakes are made. We know that the Conservative government is not open to amendments, but we go through the process and we hear from witnesses.

I have a simple question for the minister. This is the very tail end of the session. If this were some sort of priority, if this were somehow important for the government, certainly it would have moved something a little sooner than this. Certainly if it were important, the government would also think that the debate on making it better was also important. Why the rush? Why push the panic button? Why is the government shutting down debate for the 48th time over something as critical as this?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in answer to the last part of the member's question about why we are doing this now for this legislation, the House knows we have a very extensive justice agenda, and all of these bills are very important. People might ask why we addressed elder abuse, or why we cracked down on the sexual exploitation of children. They might ask why we are doing these things. All of these things are very important.

Certainly this bill is important. This bill would crack down on contraband tobacco.

That being said, the hon. member made comments about the debate. My understanding is that there were discussions with members. The bill is straightforward. It would get the job done. It is focused on what it is we are supposed to do. A couple of members of the Liberal Party and a couple of members of the Conservative Party were to talk to the bill. The NDP was offered 10 spots but apparently that was not satisfactory. When I was asked if I was surprised that 10 speakers for the NDP were not enough, I said that when it comes to justice legislation for those members 100 or 1,000 speeches would not be enough.

I am pleased that we are moving forward on this legislation, and I think most Canadians would agree with me.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Before we carry on as we customarily do, I will ask for the number of members who wish to participate in this 30-minute question period so I can gauge how much time should be allotted.

A minute and a half is probably going to work well for each intervention.

The hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question to the minister is, why do we go through elections? Why do we have a Parliament, and why is it that the Conservatives decide how many members will speak on a bill? Why is it that the Conservatives get to decide that 10 is enough?

We belong to a party. The citizens know which party we belong to. They have sent us here to be able to debate and vote on bills.

Well, for the NDP, 10 is not enough. I am sorry, but it is none of his business. It is the business of the member who is elected by the citizens to speak here on their behalf. Who are they to take away my right to speak on a bill? That is the problem. They have used time allocation 48 times to take our democratic rights away to get up in the House and argue on a bill that we want and that we have been elected to speak on.

That is the problem with the Conservative government. They should be ashamed of themselves.