Bill C-425 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Citizenship Act (honouring the Canadian Armed Forces)

This enactment amends the Citizenship Act to require the Minister, on application, to reduce by one year the required years of residence in Canada to grant citizenship to any permanent resident who is a member of the Canadian Armed Forces who has signed a minimum three-year contract and who has completed basic training.
It also amends section 9 of the Act to provide that an individual is deemed to have made an application for renunciation of their Canadian citizenship or is deemed to have withdrawn their application for Canadian citizenship, if they engage in an act of war against the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

What I'd like to demonstrate to you, Mr. Chair, is that the subamendment is the entire wording, starting from “Pursuant to Standing Order 97.1” to the end, where it says “tabled in the House not earlier than June 21, 2013”. The subamendment is not just the five words or the 10 words that are changed at the end, but includes the entire wording of the motion that is before us.

Truthfully, Mr. Chair, and respectfully, I must say that the subamendment includes the entire wording that's in front of us under the heading “Sub-amendment of Costas Menegakis”. If I speak to the fact that there's the requesting of the 30 sitting days to consider Bill C-425, that is part of the subamendment.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

It's virtually impossible, Mr. Chair, to speak to all that we heard last week. Basically, it was just material that was being read over and over again, so as much as I'd like to think that I have such a tremendous memory that I would be able to refer back to everything I heard here, certainly that would not be possible given the amount of information that was read out here last week in an attempt to filibuster the process. But there are a number of things I have to speak about, because it is incumbent upon me to try to convince my colleagues around the table of the importance of allowing an extension so that we can properly review the amendments and allow Bill C-425 to move forward.

One of the arguments we heard repeatedly last week was that this was a PMB versus a government bill, and that somehow the PMB was being hijacked by the government. I believe that was the word that was being used by the opposition.

I want to remind all members around the table of the words spoken by the sponsor and the actions of the sponsor of the bill, who would very much like to see the subamendments go through. Mr. Shory, from the inception of the bill, from the presentation of this bill in the House, made it very clear that he was open to amendments. He was open to suggestions from all sides, including the government and the opposition, that would make this bill better.

He has repeatedly said and shown by his actions that any suggestion that would make the bill better would certainly be acceptable to him. In fact, Mr. Chair, you might recall that Mr. Shory, even when he was not being subbed in as a member of this committee, attended all committee meetings to listen very carefully, not only to what members of Parliament had to say but also to what witnesses had to say.

This is a member of Parliament who understands the process and who welcomed input from absolutely everybody. He is very amenable and accepting of the recommendations and the four amendments that have been put forward. He has been a critical player from the outset and has been more than forthright in his acceptance of any suggestion that would make his bill better moving forward.

The suggestion or the inference that the government is somehow hijacking certainly has no merit whatsoever. The importance of private members' legislation, moving forward, is something that can be debated for days and days. But in keeping with your intervention to me, Mr. Chair, I won't go into all of the details of the differences between a private member's bill and government legislation, other than to just conclude that segment of what I wanted to say by saying that any suggestion that the government can have no input whatsoever on any private member's legislation by speaking with the sponsor and making suggestions of their own is questionable at best. Certainly every elected member has an opportunity to weigh in on legislation before us, and that is exactly what everyone has done.

To Mr. Shory's credit, he has been accepting of all of the suggestions, and I might add, he has given his input on some of them, if not all of them, as well.

Mr. Chair, the subamendment asks for a period of time to be able to further evaluate the importance and the significance of these amendments to a piece of legislation that we know is something that Canadians would very much like to see. It speaks to a recognition of the tremendous sacrifice that the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces make on a daily basis. It speaks to the fact that anyone who would want to—

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and welcome back.

We've certainly had a lot of discussion on this issue on this bill over the past week, and I'm delighted today to have an opportunity to speak to the subamendment. I think we all have the subamendment before us, and it reads as follows, just to make sure that we're on the right one:

Pursuant to Standing Order 97.1(1), your Committee is requesting an extension of thirty sitting days to consider Bill C-425, An Act to amend the Citizenship Act (honouring the Canadian Armed Forces), referred to the Committee on Wednesday, February 27, 2013. On Tuesday, April 23, 2013, the Committee recommended to the House that it be granted the power during its consideration of Bill C-425 to expand the scope of the Bill. The Committee is awaiting for a decision of the House before further considering the Bill. Therefore, your Committee requests an extension of thirty sitting days and that this request is to be tabled in the House not earlier than June 21, 2013.

I'm going to speak in favour of the subamendment for a number of reasons, Mr. Chair. First of all, it is my belief that legislation should not die on the table simply because of some kind of procedural tactic, if you will. I think it is important that we have an opportunity to review it, to debate it. Asking for an extension to be able to do so only affords parliamentarians the opportunity to weigh in on the subject and exercise the ultimate right that has been given to them and to all of us by the good citizens of the constituencies that we all have the honour and privilege of representing.

We heard a lot of testimony last week, extensive speeches from members of the opposition, speaking about a number of things. I have to refer to some of that so that I can support my argument for the passing of this very important subamendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Good morning, everyone. This is the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. We are reviewing Mr. Shory's Bill C-425. This is the continuation of meeting number 84.

First of all, I want to thank Ms. Sims for filling in as chair.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am delighted, and I certainly welcome the opportunity to speak to this amendment. I will try to be somewhat brief in my comments, if I may, although I do want to touch on some key points that I think are pertinent to the discussion we've been having in this committee over the last few days.

I do want to say that I have been quite attentive, as you and other members here know well. I have also been somewhat touched, and at times emotional, at some of the personal stories that some of the members have shared with us. I understand when we speak about Canadian citizenship that we are evoking emotions and passion in people because of the deep respect and value that we all put on our citizenship.

From its outset, when the sponsor the bill, Mr. Shory, the honourable member for Calgary Northeast, presented his private member's bill, Bill C-425, he was very clear as to the reasons why he did it. It was based on three fundamental beliefs, key beliefs that he had: his belief that our troops deserve the highest respect, his belief in creating more pathways to integration, and his belief that Canadian citizenship is a privilege and its value should be protected.

I know from personal experience what it means to a family. Mine is a family like so many other Canadian families, a family of immigrants. My parents came to this country in the mid-fifties. In fact, my dearly departed mom, in 1956, and my dad in 1957, boarded a ship from their native country and landed on the shores of Halifax, in Canada, with a dream for a better life. I know how valuable Canadian citizenship was to my parents when I was born and my brothers were born, and how important it was for them to obtain their Canadian citizenship.

Without making this a personal story about me, because that's not what we're here to do today, I will share with you how emotional and how proud I, along with my family, felt as the first born to my family in this country, when I was sworn in as a member of Parliament in this country, so far away from my parents' native country of Greece.

The day I was being sworn in as a member of Parliament, as it was for all of us, was a very special day. I invited 34 family members and friends to attend. Unfortunately, and quite tragically, I lost my mom six months to the day before I was elected. She could not be here to witness that very special moment for me, although I confess that I felt her presence abundantly. But in those 30 seconds when were being sworn in, when we put our hand on our book of worship, I looked in the crowd at the 34 people, Madam Chair. The cameras were going and people were smiling and they were happy with this, and right there sitting in the front row was my dad. He had a red and white tie on with a maple leaf and the word “Canada” across it, and while everybody else was smiling and taking pictures, he had tears streaming down his face, because the moment was not lost on him. Certainly when I saw his face, understanding the life of the immigrant and the hardships they had when they came to this country and the life I have had, having been born in this country and having had every opportunity available to me because of my hard-working parents, that moment was not lost on me either.

The value of Canadian citizenship is something we all feel and cherish. When I heard my honourable members opposite speak about their own personal experiences, I felt their emotion, as I have felt on numerous occasions, knowing how blessed I am to be a permanent member of this particular committee of this House of Commons.

When I heard Mr. Shory in that very first reading speak about his bill—and I've had many opportunities to speak with him about it since then—I was struck by how open and welcoming he was in soliciting input in the form of information and amendments from everyone in the House. He was really eager to make something that he felt so strongly about even better.

I have been very cognizant of this because of the personal attachment I feel to this particular piece of legislation. I've been very cognizant of how Mr. Shory has felt about some of the amendments and the changes to his bill since that very first reading. He has in every instance demonstrated his pride of the ownership of this bill and, equally, has accepted the recommendations and amendments that he felt made this piece of legislation even better.

I was also touched by the fact that Mr. Shory, not being a permanent member of the citizenship and immigration committee, attended every single meeting while this bill was being debated. He heard every single witness, he heard every single comment from every member of Parliament who had an opportunity to participate and speak, and in some instances was subbed in when someone could not come.

Further, the fact that he has been present in this marathon of hours in which we have been meeting and discussing this particular amendment testifies to his pride of ownership in this piece of legislation. At no time has he indicated or demonstrated that his member's privileges have been in any way impeded. Therefore, I feel wholeheartedly supportive of the fact that this private member's bill is indeed a private member's bill by a member of Parliament who welcomed any and all input as valuable input to him in moving forward.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Madam Chair, forgive me for insisting, but this is very important to me. I understand that you have been here for a long time and we very much appreciate the efforts you make as well as those of all the people around the table. I congratulate you on your insight. However, with a new perspective—I came in from the outside—it seems to me that my colleague on the other side was raising a point of order on my colleague's statement. Her statement was about the content of Bill C-425. She was comparing the various countries referred to every day as federal countries.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Let me clarify that it is to do with seeking an extension for Bill C-425, an act to amend the Citizenship Act. If you're speaking on an extension for that bill, you can refer back to the bill as you are speaking to the extension. It's the same about the scope. My colleague Rick Dykstra, the parliamentary secretary, did not question that when I explained that earlier, and it has been accepted by the committee.

Let's move on and have Ms. Sitsabaiesan continue her discourse.

Ms. Sellah.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

So, it's fifty-fifty

I understand that it is a broad umbrella. We aren't just referring to the motion, but everything that relates to Bill C-425, correct? Forgive me for insisting on that, but I want to make sure I understand that clearly, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

What I have said is that in order to either say whether you support or oppose the extension motion.... The extension is not about nothing. It's not about a bus. It's not about a train or the timing thereof. It is about Bill C-425, an act to amend the Citizenship Act, and it's also about seeking expansion of the scope of the bill. Therefore, as long as your comments fit within that umbrella then you will not be ruled out of order. That is the chair's position.

Is that a new point of order?

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for your clear explanations which I understood from the start. I was very happy to hear you say that we have the right to return to discussing the content of Bill C-425. Is that correct, Madam Chair?

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

I have given the same clarification a number of times, but I will do it one more time.

We are here to discuss an extension, to give the committee a chance to go to the House to seek an expanded scope to the bill and then for the committee to deal with that. That's what we're here to debate.

In light of that, I have said that as long as a person is speaking to that.... As I said, when you're speaking to a motion like this, it's not a yes or a no; otherwise we would not be here to debate. You can make reference to the content of Bill C-425, as long as it is relevant, and in the same way to the expanded scope. Both those rulings have been made. Clarification is given and has been given again. This particular motion has been read into the record a number of times by me. I am pleased that you had me hear it in French. I did follow the English version because it is right here in front of me.

For any member who speaks on this motion before this committee today, as long as it relates to what is in this motion, it is admissible. There is no time limit on how long they can speak. However, if they use either Bill C-425 or the Citizenship Act or the expansion of the scope as a stepping stone to talk about something totally unrelated, and do not relate it back to these issues, then the chair will gently remind members that it's time to come back to dealing with the motion. That is what the chair has clarified a number of times.

Ms. Sellah.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Let me finish, Madam Chair, please.

It's An Act to amend the Citizenship Act (honouring the Canadian Armed Forces), referred to committee on Wednesday, February 27, 2013.

Madam Chair, I'm not going back to my first point. In my humble understanding, every time I have come to the committee, points of order on the motion have not held up because, in fact, this motion talks about the bill. So she can cite examples and talk about this bill as much as she wants.

I would like some clarification on this and correct me, Madam Chair, if I'm mistaken.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

You are correct, it is Bill C-425 that we are here to consider, but also, at the same time—

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, it concerns this motion.

If I understand correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong, according to Standing Order 97.1, the committee is requesting an extension of 30 sitting days—and I repeat—to study Bill C-425. Is Bill C-425 actually on this sheet, Madam Chair?

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Actually, Madam Chair—if I don't get interrupted to say that I am off the point again—that was perfect. You've said my last name perfectly. Thank you for your efforts.

This government wants to expand the scope of the bill, and doing that is outside the powers of committee especially when a private member's bill comes to the committee. That was just a response to one of the comments I heard from a member in this committee who seemed uncertain as to whether that was the goal of this. So I just wanted to make it clear that what the government, through the government members, is trying to do is to expand or change the scope of this bill.

Nevertheless, I would like to continue on how the issue of statelessness has been hammered home by witnesses and how we don't need to hear more from witnesses. We don't need to expand the length of study of this bill. As you mentioned, Madam Chair, there are two parts of the motion, the first part being the extension of the time to continue the study another 30 days and the second part being that there has been an application for the extension of the scope. So far I've only touched on the first piece. I have much more to go on the first half before I even comment on the second half.

I just finished showing you that the evidence already put forward to the committee has clearly demonstrated how Australia, another country that we compare ourselves to quite regularly, has safeguards to prevent statelessness with its voluntary renunciation of Australian citizenship. So let's move on to the revocation or the deprivation of citizenship in Australia and what they have in place to ensure that safeguards are available.

I'll let you know that for those who have citizenship by descent or by conferral, the minister may revoke a person's Australian citizenship if the minister is satisfied that it would be contrary to the public interest for the person to remain an Australian citizen. So that was basically capturing the sense of paragraphs 34(1)(c) and 34(2)(c) instead of reading them all to you here. This provides the ability to revoke one's citizenship. The safeguards that they have to prevent statelessness here are within subsection 34(3), which reads that:

However, the Minister must not decide under subsection (2) to revoke a person's Australian citizenship if... (b) the minister is satisfied that the person would, if the Minister were to revoke the person's Australian citizenship, become a person who is not a national or citizen of any country.

So, clearly, in their legislation in the Citizenship Act of 2007 they have a safeguard mechanism to prevent Australian citizens whose citizenship is revoked from becoming stateless. Once again, this is a country we like to make sure we're on a par with or we like to make sure we have better laws than in order to protect people. Yet, witnesses have demonstrated to us that if we move forward with this bill we will be creating situations of statelessness in Canada, which is, of course, in contravention to the convention that we are signatory to. We don't need to debate this further.

We don't need to discuss Bill C-425 further to learn this, because it's already been made quite clear in the comparison between Canada and Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom.

I've gone through all three of these countries that we like to compare ourselves to regularly. This is yet another reason, Madam Chair, why I believe we don't need to extend the time of this study for another 30 days, and it's another reason why, Madam Chair, I will not be voting to support this motion.

Another country is, of course, our biggest neighbour and friend, the United States of America. They also have their legislation, and let's look at the U.S. immigration legislation. I can go quite into detail, but I have a feeling that the members may not want me to go into ultra detail. Much of the evidence that I am reiterating here, Madam Chair, is evidence that all the members of this committee have already read.