Bill C-22 (Historical)

An Act to establish the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians and to make consequential amendments to certain Acts

This enactment establishes the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians and sets out its composition and mandate. In addition, it establishes the Committee’s Secretariat, the role of which is to assist the Committee in fulfilling its mandate. It also makes consequential amendments to certain Acts.

National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians Act

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Speaker, since we are talking in the House today about what Canadians understand and the fact that Canadians are watching, I wonder if the member could highlight once again for Canadians exactly what is happening. Some of the recent comments by the hon. member from the governing party do not delve into what really is happening and what Canadians are concerned about.

I wonder if my colleague would discuss some of the issues with regard to parliamentary oversight in the counterpart Five Eyes nations and some of the shortcomings that our committee actually mentioned, which were about appointing the chairperson. Does he think there is a risk with no trust from Canadians if the books are not handed over to the government and other information that has been withheld? Maybe the member could expand on some of those shortcomings.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I wish I had more time to speak to this today because it is important that Canadians understand what the government is doing. Actually, it is important that they understand the work that the committee did.

We have a committee with all members on it who worked together to try to make the bill better. They brought back amendments and the government rejected the amendments that were made by a committee on which the government has a majority.

We need to make sure this thing has transparency. The government is going to remove that tonight with its vote. I am told there are multiple locking mechanisms entrenched in Bill C-22 that block committees from accessing information and calling witnesses. The government is making sure that those locks are in place so the committee will not be able to do the work it should.

We need to make sure this committee is non-partisan. The government is not guaranteeing that. Its chair and its members should not be appointed by the Prime Minister. We need to see that happen. Members of the committee need to be appointed by Parliament. Most important, the committee needs to report not to the Prime Minister but to Parliament. If it could do that, perhaps it could do some work that would be really valuable for Canadians.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, although I do not think I agreed with a single thing my friend from Cypress Hills—Grasslands said, we are friends.

I want to know if he can explain why the previous Conservative government in the 41st Parliament in omnibus budget Bill C-38 did not allow for any amendments or any discussion and used time allocation at every stage, eliminated the office of the inspector general for CSIS, the only internal oversight that used to exist for CSIS. I think we need to bring back that office, as well as have the parliamentary committee.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Speaker, we are here today to talk about Bill C-22 and the committee the government is proposing to establish for the future.

We need to come back to the fact that the committee needs to have authority. It needs to report back to Parliament, not to the Prime Minister. It needs to be appointed by Parliament. It also needs to be able to do a good job of intelligence oversight, or else we are just pretending that we have something that we really do not have.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have the great pleasure and honour to speak today to Bill C-22.

This bill will give Canada its first national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians. By enacting legislation to create this new committee, our government is fulfilling its commitment to protecting national security while ensuring the utmost respect for rights and freedoms.

I would also note that the government has made it a priority to make Parliament more useful by consolidating its institutions and mobilizing parliamentarians. The national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians that will be created by Bill C-22 is intended to be a forum where national security agencies will be able to exchange highly classified intelligence with parliamentarians who have received the proper security clearance.

The public wants national security and intelligence activities to be carried out in a responsible way. They are entitled to know that this important work is being done in accordance with the rule of law and in full recognition of individual rights, including the right to privacy. Because our government knows this is possible, it is committed to consolidating the national security framework in order to protect Canadians without compromising their values, rights and freedoms or the openness and inclusivity that this country represents.

Within the strong framework laid down by Bill C-22, the government will be able to disclose highly classified information to a committee that will include members of both Chambers and all parties. The parliamentarians who sit on the committee will have a broad mandate, defined in the bill, that consists of verifying whether the government’s work in the realm of national security and intelligence meets high standards and is carried out rigorously and responsibly. For that reason, I would like to focus on two fundamental aspects of this bill: accountability and transparency.

People expect that we, as parliamentarians, will be able to hold the government to account concerning the work done by national security and intelligence agencies. My esteemed colleagues know that SIRC, the Security Intelligence Review Committee that oversees CSIS, the Office of the Communications Security Establishment Commissioner, for the CSE, and the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP are well established entities that were created many years ago to ensure the transparency and accountability that people expect of the corresponding agencies in their mandatory annual reports.

Each of these entities oversees a national security or intelligence agency to ensure that it adheres to the rule of law and the directives given by its minister, namely the Minister of Public Safety for SIRC and the CRCC and the Minister of National Defence for the CSE.

To date, however, Canada has not been able to address national security and intelligence issues from a government-wide perspective, that is, to cast a wider net than any of the three entities we just spoke about do, wider even than the three of them together. That is what we want to remedy with Bill C-22. I would like to commend the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security for the fine work it did in its examination of this important bill.

At this stage, the government is proposing to reinstate several important provisions of Bill C-22. More specifically, the government wants to reintroduce three mandatory exemptions relating to the committee’s access to classified information: first, protection of information respecting ongoing law enforcement operations; second, protection of the identity of informants and sources; and third, protection of persons in the witness protection program. This is because it is essential to guarantee the independence of police investigations and the safety and security of individuals who work in national security and intelligence.

The government has also proposed an amendment that reinstates clause 16, so that ministers have the necessary discretion not to disclose certain special operational information, but only if providing the information might be injurious to national security, for example, where operations or the safety of the individuals involved are in issue. As an additional safety measure, the bill provides that a minister who exercises his or her discretion in this regard must do so on a case-by-case basis. Moreover, the minister must, under the bill, inform the committee and provide the reasons why he or she has done so.

I congratulate the government for responding to the concerns of the standing committee while at the same time preserving the necessary protection measures and guarantees specified in the bill. I support the amendments proposed by the government.

I also want to point out that parliamentarians must review the bill every five years, starting from the date on which it comes into force. This is an important provision, because it establishes a legislative basis that gives the committee the ability to make changes.

As parliamentarians, we introduce, debate, and promulgate legislation dealing with matters of national security. The committees of the House and the Senate consider matters of national security policy and carry out studies of the government’s national security and intelligence activities and of the associated laws.

To date, however, Canadians have not had the benefit of an entity that gives parliamentarians a mandate to examine the government’s overall national security and intelligence infrastructure. That is what we are seeking to accomplish with the bill we are proposing, Bill C-22, an act to establish the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians and to make consequential amendments to certain acts.

By creating the committee of parliamentarians proposed in Bill C-22 and holding a debate on the amendments proposed by the government at this stage of the report, we are showing Canadians that the government is resolutely taking a stance as protector of their individual rights, their freedoms, and their values, while at the same time focusing on their security and their safety.

That is why I intend to vote for the bill, and I encourage all my colleagues to do the same.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech, which I listened to with interest.

I would like to go back to 2014, when the Prime Minister, the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, and nine other ministers voted in favour of Bill C-622, which sought to create an oversight committee with complete access and subpoena powers.

Why is the government trying to take these tools away from the committee proposed by Bill C-22? Why are the Liberals flip-flopping today, when they are now in government?

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to recall that the government has made a point of taking the time to consult its colleagues of other authorities, in order to see what the best practices of those parliamentary committees were. The government’s conclusion that the minister should be allowed certain limits is based on reasons of security. That is why the government is maintaining its restrictions, which are still very limited and must be justified to parliamentarians.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it has been interesting to hear the comments and concerns about the lack of transparency of this new committee and yet the party on this side would have the minority of the people on it.

Perhaps because the appointments would be made by the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister would have some enormous power that would actually neuter the voices of those sitting in the opposition preventing them from raising issues as they saw them come up, especially about the process, especially about the transparency. Surely if they saw a problem, they would have the freedom to speak up.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my colleague that obviously the fact that the Prime Minister would appoint the parliamentarians that would sit on the committee would definitely not be an indication that they would be limited in the scope both of their work and of their liberty to do the work as fully as necessary to do their job.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am not at all reassured when I hear my colleagues opposite saying that the fact that the government does not have a majority on a committee means that there is more democracy within that committee.

Let us recall the electoral reform committee. When a committee says the opposite of what the government wants to hear, the government could not care less about the committee’s recommendations and decides to make the decisions itself. That is our criticism of Bill C-22. Let us have a real parliamentary committee that will really have its say, and not a committee managed by the Prime Minister’s Office. The proof is that this bill is being passed under a gag order, because they are tired of hearing opposition representatives tell the truth about Bill C-22.

What does the member have to say about that?

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member on this side has a good memory and recalls very clearly the 10 years of Conservative government during which the infamous gag order was imposed on us at nearly every turn, and during which that committee never had a chance to see the light of day because the government refused to allow it.

I really do not need any lectures from my opposition colleagues.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, would the member provide some of her thoughts with regard to the valuable work that we saw at the committee stage, in particular, those who made presentations and the committee members who got together with some amendments?

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I absolutely commend the work done by the committee members. It was a very thoughtful process. They took the time to examine and to receive all the witnesses they could to provide as much information as possible in coming up with their recommendations. I think the government was also thoughtful in coming back with some acceptance and some non-acceptance of the recommendations from the committee. I have to commend the work done by the committee.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a great honour to rise today to take part in this very important debate on Bill C-22.

I feel honoured to give voice to the serious concerns that many of my constituents have in the great riding of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford. I also want to note that this debate is taking place under the yoke of time allocation. In other words, the ability of parliamentarians to provide oversight on a bill dealing with oversight has now been curtailed by the government.

Bill C-22 cannot be debated without being properly placed in the context of Bill C-51 from the 41st Parliament. Bill C-51 was one of the most draconian pieces of security legislation to emanate from the previous Conservative government. Indeed, more than 100 of Canada's brightest legal experts from institutions across the country sent an open letter to all members of Parliament at the time, expressing their deep concern about Bill C-51. They called that bill a dangerous piece of legislation, in terms of the potential impacts on the rule of law, on constitutionally and internationally protected rights, and on the health of Canada's democracy.

We had former prime ministers, former justices of the Supreme Court of Canada, and all sorts of experts who gave close scrutiny to Bill C-51 and were convinced it was unconstitutional. Many of my constituents were very vocally opposed to Bill C-51, and indeed many of them took part in the protests that erupted across Canada during that time.

It was a sad day in Parliament when the Liberals joined with the Conservatives to pass that bill. I think, and many of my colleagues will agree with me, that on Bill C-51, the Liberals were indecisive, unreliable, and plain wrong to support it at the time. I do not think they realized how much of a serious misjudgement they had made with the Canadian public on the mood of Canadians.

Then, when we edged closer to the 2015 election, we suddenly saw a commitment in the Liberal campaign platform to introduce new legislation that would balance collective security with our rights and freedoms. Part of that promise was to establish an all-party national oversight committee, which we see today in Bill C-22.

In our system today, we have a history of having opposition chairs in oversight committees. Committees on ethics, public accounts, status of women, and government operations all have elected opposition chairs to ensure proper accountability and oversight. It is most unfortunate that the government, through clause 6 of the bill, has provided for the Governor in Council to designate the chair of the committee. In fact, the government has not even bothered to wait for the passage of this bill, because, as we all know, it has been widely reported that the member for Ottawa South is to be the chair. The government has also rejected attempts at the committee stage to allow for the committee to elect its chair, something which I think is unfortunate.

If I could deliver one message today, it is that Canadians expect to have a watchdog and oversight committee that has real teeth. I think this committee must have full access to classified information, have adequate resources, and, most importantly, it must have independence subject only to justifiable limits and the power to share its findings with Canadians in an informative and transparent manner.

Without adequate access to information, the committee will not be able to do its job effectively. I think this work is far too important to do half-heartedly or ineffectively. I will not support creating a committee that cannot properly provide oversight in accordance with what Canadians expect.

One of the government's proposals is to allow cabinet ministers to withhold information from the oversight committee. This is evident in Motion No. 5, which the government has presented, which seeks to reinstate clause 16. It is worded in a way that allows a minister to withhold information if he or she feels that it is special operational information or that the provision of the information would be injurious to national security.

If injurious to national security is not a blanket statement to cover any kind of reason, I do not know what is. I have heard Liberal MPs say that there is a proper accountability in oversight because the minister simply has to inform the committee of his or her decision and the reasons for it, as if that somehow makes everything okay.

I cannot support such a reinstatement of that clause. The public safety committee and the experts who were heard made it very clear that the the executive branch having this kind of power over an oversight committee simply will not fly. It would make the committee completely ineffective anytime that a minister wanted to withhold information. With regard to the way that the government wants to write the bill, the minister could claim that a confidential inquiry somehow jeopardizes the country's national security. I think that giving the government the ability to shut down any kind of investigation into its actions is too dangerous for a functioning and accountable democracy.

The other thing is that we need to build Canadians' trust in our security and intelligence community, and the way to do that is to create meaningful parliamentary oversight. We need to have a fully briefed parliamentary oversight committee that can issue authoritative reports to Canadians. Without full access and full trust from the agencies, the oversight committee cannot help those agencies earn the trust of Canadians. It is very disappointing and frustrating that the Liberals are not living up to the commitments they made trying to fix Bill C-51. To rebuild this trust, the committee must be strong, independent, and effective. The Liberals must fulfill their promise to “repeal the problematic elements of Bill C-51”.

I find it very troubling that the government cannot seem to place its trust in a select group of parliamentarians who will be security cleared, sworn to secrecy, and who will have waived all immunity based on parliamentary privilege. To underline how ridiculous this premise is, I would like to point out that there are members of the Conservative Party in opposition who were once members of cabinet in the previous Parliament. At that time, they had access to all kinds of sensitive information and are still bound by secrecy. Why the government will not now trust this committee to have full access and provide proper oversight remains an elusive mystery.

All parties worked hard during the committee process to improve Bill C-22. The final product, as was reported back to this House, was praised by four of Canada's leading authorities on intelligence and oversight issues. They wrote a joint op-ed in The Globe and Mail, calling on the government to accept the improvements and pass the bill. The last-minute changes that the government is now trying to make are unsupported by evidence heard at the committee, and they would undermine the effectiveness of the committee and the trust of Canadians. The Information Commissioner and the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Kent Roach and Craig Forcese, the first chair of the Security Intelligence Review Committee, and a representative of the Canadian Bar Association, all testified that the oversight committee should not be restricted in its access to necessary information. I do not understand why the government is attempting to reject that expert evidence.

There are three core agencies responsible for security and intelligence work in Canada: CSIS, CSE, and the RCMP. They have a combined budget of approaching $4 billion, and they employ close to 34,000 people. Clearly such a vast network needs to have the accountability and oversight of Parliament in order to regain Canadians' trust. The role of Parliament is to scrutinize the government, represent the Canadian people, and bring forth good laws to govern our people.

I call on the Liberal MPs sitting in the back rows to go back to that special day on March 8 during the vote on Bill S-201, when they had the courage to stand up and assert their power as legislators in the face of the opposition from cabinet. As they did then, those Liberal MPs should reject the government's 11th-hour amendments to this bill, and instead listen to the evidence that was so clearly presented to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. I ask all MPs in this House to remember that the government is accountable to Parliament, not the other way around.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments from the member, but I disagree with a number of the points. I was there when there was a great deal of opposition to Bill C-51. The Liberal Party was different from the NDP back then. We believed there was a need to see Bill C-51 passed because of a wide variety of reasons. The security of Canadians was the predominant reason. We also made the commitment back then that we would bring in the parliamentary oversight. This bill would do just that.

My question for the member is this. I have been a parliamentarian now for about 25 years. I know how committees work. At the end of the day, I believe in the integrity of the members who would make up that committee. A majority of that committee would not be held by government members of Parliament. The government members of Parliament would be in a minority. It would take others to be onside in order to get something passed. Does that not provide any reassurances whatsoever for members across the way?