Bill C-22 (Historical)

An Act to establish the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians and to make consequential amendments to certain Acts

This enactment establishes the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians and sets out its composition and mandate. In addition, it establishes the Committee’s Secretariat, the role of which is to assist the Committee in fulfilling its mandate. It also makes consequential amendments to certain Acts.

National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians Act

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in a short answer, no, it does not. I appreciate that members of the governing party on a committee may not have a majority position. However, if the member had correctly listened to my speech, I do not really care about that particular section. My main concern is with clause 16 of this bill, which still allows a minister, with this blanket provision, to keep information from that committee. No matter what the membership of the committee is, the problem is not solved if we still have a clause allowing a minister to withhold information. We need proper oversight. We need proper accountability.

I do not know what the government's problem is when we have parliamentarians who are sworn to secrecy, have received security clearance, and basically have waived their right to parliamentary privilege so they will be accountable and fully subject to the law if they break that secrecy. I am not sure why the government cannot trust those parliamentarians when there are members in this House who used to be members of the previous Conservative government who are still maintaining that oath of secrecy.

I think what the member is talking about is window dressing. He did not address our real concerns regarding this bill.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Cowichan—Malahat—Langford for putting the concern so very clearly as to why that parliamentary committee of MPs and senators, with all of the stringent qualifications they would have to undertake to be members of the committee, should have information withheld from them.

I do plan to vote for Bill C-22, because I think it is important to have parliamentary oversight. We have never had it. However, I am still putting forward my own amendment, which I hope the hon. member will support, to delete the clause of the bill which removes parliamentary privilege from MPs. Other countries with parliamentary oversight of intelligence operations do allow their MPs to continue to have parliamentary privilege. I see that one deletion as a way of pushing back on the overall message from the government that MPs are not trusted with information.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Saanich—Gulf Islands for that part. I am still examining her proposed deletion of clause 12, because I think that in our system of checks and balances, in order to afford parliamentarians that privilege of accessing this information, there do need to be some checks. However, I do not think that the government would accept that in any case. Therefore, one of the important amendments that my colleague from Victoria has moved is the deletion of clause 31. If the government rejects everything else, we hope at least that by deleting clause 31 in this bill we can allow that accountability to a federal court, because we know that certain federal judges are sworn to secrecy. They deal with very sensitive information on an ongoing operational basis, and sometimes they have to issue warrants with very sensitive information. We hope that, at the very least, by eliminating clause 31, we have that recourse for the courts to actually enforce some of the things the committee is trying to do.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to address the House today with respect to the passage of Bill C-22, which would establish the national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians, also known as NSICOP.

Canadians want and need to be assured that our national security and intelligence community's activities are conducted responsibly. This means that these important activities fully respect individual rights, including privacy, and that they are carried out according to the rule of law.

Canadians also expect that we as parliamentarians are in a position to hold the government accountable as to the conduct of these activities so that both Canada's national security and Canadians' rights and freedoms are assured.

Bill C-22 provides a well-designed framework within which the government would be able to share highly classified information with a statutory committee of members of the House of Commons and the Senate to be selected on a multi-partisan basis according to the provisions set out in this legislation. As members of this committee, they would be able to review the government's national security and intelligence activities to ensure this highly sensitive work is conducted responsibly and thoroughly.

Such a bill is long overdue. Once it is enacted and when the committee of parliamentarians becomes operational, the committee would be independent of the government for the purposes of its mandate. This would include the ability of the committee to decide which matters to review, in what priority and to what depth, while ensuring that the appropriate safeguards are firmly in place.

Bill C-22 enables the committee to review any federal department or agency that performs national security or intelligence activities. For example, activities at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, CSIS, the Communications Security Establishment, the Canada Border Services Agency, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and a number of other organizations would be part of the committee's responsibility.

The national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians would be unique in Canada in that it would have a government-wide mandate that sets it apart from other bodies established to review a specific agency, for example, either the Security Intelligence Review Committee, the commissioner of the Communications Security Establishment, or the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP. In this way, NSICOP represents the biggest change to the national security review structure in a generation.

The proposed committee of parliamentarians would review the legal, policy, and administrative frameworks that underpin national security operations. It would also be able to scrutinize the operational aspects of security and intelligence work. To do this, Bill C-22 grants the committee the powers to access the information it would need, including highly classified information.

It is important that hon. members appreciate that Bill C-22 has been carefully crafted to avoid unnecessary duplications of efforts within the broader national security community. This means that relevant information, such as reports, findings, and opinions, may be shared between the committee of parliamentarians and the other review bodies during the conduct of their respective work. This represents an important way of leveraging the good work of these organizations to help NSICOP get up to speed on issues and to fulfill its role in ensuring that national security and intelligence activities are in Canada's best interests.

To ensure accountability and transparency, the national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians would be required to report annually on its work, including its findings and recommendations, as appropriate, and these reports would be tabled in Parliament. The committee would also be able to independently issue special reports as necessary.

Although the bill requires that reports would be submitted to the Prime Minister before tabling for the sole purpose of ensuring that classified information is not contained in the reports, I want to reassure hon. members that the bill does not provide the Prime Minister with the power to change the committee's findings or recommendations. To reiterate, the intent of this provision is to ensure, in the final stages before a report becomes public, that classified information is not inadvertently included. This is in everyone's interest.

It should also be noted that Bill C-22 enables the committee to provide classified reports to a minister or ministers at its own discretion. In doing so, however, the committee would still be required to include an unclassified summary of any such report in its annual report.

While it is vital to involve more parliamentarians in examining how federal national security entities and agencies carry out their national security responsibilities individually or collectively, there must also be some boundaries to ensure that ministers remain fully responsible and accountable for their department's activities. Every department and agency of the security and intelligence community reports to the minister, who is ultimately responsible for its conduct. This minister is accountable to Parliament, and ultimately to Canadians, for ensuring that the organization under her or his charge carries out its duties to keep us safe, while respecting our fundamental rights and freedoms and the rule of law.

With respect to access to information for the committee of parliamentarians, I believe that the amendments proposed by the government at report stage represent a balanced, reasonable approach to some of the changes proposed by the standing committee. Notably, the proposal by the government to reintroduce some of the mandatory exceptions to the committee's access in clause 14 is intended to ensure that certain categories of sensitive, highly restricted information are protected from any inadvertent release that may cause harm to individuals and/or to national security related operations.

The government's proposed reinstatement of clause 16, as it appeared when the bill was tabled, would further provide ministers with a mechanism to ensure that special operational information can be protected, but only where necessary to protect national security.

Bill C-22, with the amendments proposed by the government, provides the necessary checks and balances, and I encourage hon. members to join me in supporting it. For example, if a minister determines it to be necessary to withhold information from the committee at a specific point in time to ensure the integrity of a national security operation, the minister would be required to explain the request to the committee. If disputed by the committee, the committee would have the ability to report this matter to Parliament.

I can assure hon. members that Bill C-22, with the proposed amendments, would give the committee of parliamentarians the ability to hold the government accountable as to its national security and intelligence activities. Also, the committee would be able to play a key role in ensuring that ministers take the necessary action to address problems and to fix deficiencies within their own areas of responsibility.

I want to emphasize that the bill would provide the national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians significant powers with which to conduct its important work. However, it is also important to add that the bill also provides support for the committee by creating a professionally staffed secretariat.

Bill C-22 demonstrates that the government intends to set the bar higher for national security and intelligence matters because of the transparency and accountability it requires. Our government wants Canadians to feel confident that their Parliament will be able to hold the government to account in this regard.

I want to share with hon. members that it is my wish that the bill be seen as one of the building blocks to restore a high level of trust and respect of Canadians in parliamentarians. I hope hon. members from all parties will join me in supporting the enactment of the bill with the amendments we have proposed at this time.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, whether it has been the minister of public services or the minister responsible for House business, we have seen a great deal of working with opposition members and the many different stakeholders. We have seen a number of amendments actually brought through at the committee stage. The presentations from the expert witnesses were very convincing. Now we have a good piece of legislation that all of us can be very proud of.

I would ask my colleague to provide some of her thoughts on how important it is that today we will be voting on something that is somewhat historic as this will be Canada's first attempt at having a parliamentary oversight committee, and even though it is our first attempt, it is a very robust system we are putting in place. It is arguably some of the best legislation, even in comparison to other Five Eyes countries that have parliamentary oversight legislation. Perhaps she could provide her thoughts on the significance and importance of providing that oversight for Canadians.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I think all of us the House of Commons can understand that we have a role, a responsibility, and a duty to Canadians. Oftentimes that duty comes with oversight. For something as important as national security and our intelligence agencies, it is members of the House who ultimately must ensure that the rule of law and human rights, that all of these things are always being upheld. In my opinion, it is for that reason that this oversight committee is long overdue. I think it is what Canadians expect of us and expect of a reasonable government.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a sad day. Here we are again, debating important legislation and the Liberals have moved closure on it, not allowing us to have a full debate and denying members the ability to speak to the bill.

The member talks about how great the bill is, but we know that the proposed changes by the opposition in committee were not accepted by the Liberals. We know the Liberals are trying to withhold information from this new security and intelligence committee to do its job. There is censorship. The PMO has oversight over the ability of the non-partisan, all-party committee to get down to the heart of whether our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and privacy are being protected, whether our national security agencies, such as CSIS, CSEC, the RCMP, the National Security Agency or an investigation agency within national defence, are performing their duties and responsibilities in a way that not only protects Canadians, but also protects our privacy rights and our Charter rights.

Does the member agree that the government is doing the right thing by censoring the ability of the committee to call for papers, to call for people, to call for reports, and publish those reports on a public matter without having them edited and censored by the PMO?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in my speech, I clarified the fact that the Prime Minister could not actually alter the recommendations. It is simply a review to ensure that privacy of national security is not inadvertently leaked to the public for obvious reasons. While I appreciate my hon. colleague's comments, saying it is “censorship”, I would think national security and keeping Canadians safe is a non-partisan issue that we all should advocate.

This legislation and this committee is really about balance: how do we ensure we have the right oversight without risking national security? I think Canadians, broadly, will appreciate that we are working on that balance, that it is a sensitive mix. I am proud that our government has that balance right. Frankly, I do not take many lessons from the members of the Conservative Party who, in the previous government, decided never to consult with Canadians on matters like this and instead decided to impose their will and their opinions. This balance is what Canadians expect of us.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to speak today in support of Bill C-22, an act to establish the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians and to make consequential amendments to certain acts.

After considering this bill at second reading and reviewing it in committee, we now have the opportunity to examine it at report stage. The sound parliamentary process has served us well. The bill was carefully reviewed by members from all parties in the House, who listened to advice from expert witnesses, and the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security proposed amendments.

As currently worded, the bill will move our country towards a more accountable and effective national security system. The creation of a new national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians will allow the government to keep one of its major promises to Canadians.

This committee will be a very important addition to our parliamentary landscape and will allow the following: extraordinary access to classified information in order to closely examine intelligence and security operations; increased scrutiny of national security and intelligence activities; a broader mandate than that of corresponding committees in other modern democracies; the ability to develop its own agenda completely independent from government; the duty to be accountable to Canadians by reporting annually to Parliament; and the power to examine activities across the entire federal government, including ongoing operations.

Under the current version of this legislation, the committee must meet the dual objectives we set in that regard at the outset: ensuring that our national security apparatus works properly in order to keep Canadians safe, while also protecting Canadians' rights and freedoms.

When this bill was first introduced, it proposed a more robust committee than those of many of our international allies. The amendments would further broaden the scope, powers, and access we are proposing for the committee, and the government indicated that it would accept most of those amendments.

With respect to the scope, for example, we all agree that the committee must have the authority to examine all operations related to national security and intelligence. As amended, this would now include the activities of crown corporations. Furthermore, according to the amendments, if the minister were to determine that a study would be injurious to national security, his power to delay would be limited to the time during which the activity is under way. The committee could examine the activity afterwards.

The provision concerning whistle-blowers is another important amendment that would require the committee to inform a minister and the Attorney General of any activity related to national security or intelligence undertaken by a department that may not be in accordance with the law. Like my colleagues, I am pleased to see that this amendment received broad support.

I also agree that the committee chair should have a vote in the event of a tie. I also agree with the many changes regarding exemptions to access to information that the bill initially proposed. The recent amendments, for example, will allow the committee to receive information about activities under way, related to defence intelligence, in support of military activities.

The Committee will also have access to pertinent information collected by the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada and the information protected by the Investment Canada Act. The government also agreed to amend the bill so that the reason for any redaction is provided.

The government was open to reasonable amendments throughout the parliamentary process. Not only did we carry out a careful study of this vital bill, but we also benefited from many years of reflection on the creation of a committee, and a long collaboration with international partners.

Each member of the Five Eyes alliance, including Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States, has a legislative body with access to classified information in order to monitor national security issues.

Canada has tried for more than a decade to create one. It is time for us to give Canadians and parliamentarians a mandate to examine these activities that we all want to have and that we all need.

Today, we are taking one more step toward implementing this important new body. We are getting closer to a system in which parliamentarians are in a better position to hold the government accountable. We can have greater assurance that concrete measures are taken when we target the flaws and problems associated with our security framework and operations.

We have learned lessons from some of our allies’ best practices. We are getting closer to a genuinely Canadian approach to accountability when it comes to national security. This is a major step forward for Canada.

This bill is as bold and progressive as it is well-thought-out and balanced. I am very proud to be part of the Parliament that will finally, I hope, put this essential accountability mechanism in place.

I would like to thank all the members and all the parties for their support, advice, consideration, and discussions, as well as the constructive attitude that has made it possible to craft a better bill. I urge all my colleagues to support the passage of this important legislation.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is very interesting to hear all of the comments with regard to the bill coming forward.

I want to stress for Canadians what is actually happening here. I would like to have the member explain for Canadians why it does not pose a risk to have information withheld from a committee that has the mandate of oversight and why it is not a risk to deny information with regard to financing and books to an auditor.

Could the member explain how this committee can actually move forward and be a bona fide oversight committee with these glaring shortcomings? We expected this to address some of the concerns that came forward with Bill C-51. Now we have something that is toothless.

I am very concerned. Perhaps the member could explain why these risks are acceptable for Canadians to take on, when we are creating this new committee that is supposed to have oversight but actually has no weight whatsoever.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question.

I would remind my hon. colleague that what I have just said is that certain information that is kept confidential during operations will be available to the committee members afterward, so that the committee can analyze national security-related operations.

I would also remind the member that the party to which she belongs was prepared to remove from the legislative landscape the bills that we are trying to improve to ensure Canadians can be safe, which is the basis of this bill, and, most importantly, can have confidence in a committee that will be able to verify and oversee what at least 17 agencies, organizations, and bodies in the security field are doing, to ensure that operations are conducted properly and that their freedoms and rights are upheld.

[The Deputy Speaker, Bruce Stanton]

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Barrie—Innisfil. I will let him know that there are just shy of 10 minutes remaining for his remarks. I will give him the usual indication just before his time is up. He will have approximately eight and a half minutes.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if truth be known, I only expected to speak for four minutes, so I want to thank you for the extra time. I just wish my colleague from Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman would have stood up and asked a question at that point.

However, I want to speak to a very important issue as the last speaker in this debate. What is interesting to me is to see the level of control that is going on within the Liberal government and within the Prime Minister's Office. In the election campaign the Prime Minister talked about doing things differently, holding his hand over his heart saying that for Canada things will be better, yet here we are, dealing with a time allocation situation. There have not been that many speakers, quite frankly, to speak to this very important issue.

The reality is that this was a campaign promise that was made by the Liberal government, and it is effectively fast-tracking it through Parliament.

As I prepared to speak to this issue in the short time that I had, I saw that a Google search on Bill C-22 shows us the level of concern that exists among Canadians, and certainly it has been been editorialized as well that we have to make sure we get this right. Getting it right is important. That means giving oversight of this committee to this body, to Parliament, not having it consolidated through the PMO. It means making sure that information is accessible to this committee. That is extremely important.

I know that the NSICOP would report to the Prime Minister's Office when it should be reporting to Parliament. The Prime Minister campaigned on a reduced role for the Prime Minister's Office, but again his actions do not speak to and certainly do not follow those words. There were several amendments that were proposed at the public safety committee to make this security committee much more effective. Some of those proposals and amendments would have provided truly effective scrutiny for members of Parliament on this oversight committee, yet they were rejected. As a result, the committee will not have the power it needs in order to have true oversight.

A lot of discussion has gone on about our Five Eyes allies. What the government has done is it has not used some of the examples from the United Kingdom with respect to a very similar parliamentary committee that the U.K. has. The new committee does need the powers to ensure that it has this democratic oversight.

One of the issues that is concerning all of us is that this bill, Bill C-22, was tabled in the final hours of the last session of Parliament to ensure there would be virtually no debate. That is effectively what is happening here. The government is shutting down debate on this issue. My colleagues and I on this side do not think that needs to be done. However, it is a systemic pattern of the current government.

I go back to the campaign. I know the government can criticize the time allocations brought by the previous government all it wants, but when we go back to the throne speech, when the Prime Minister's words were delivered by the Governor General in the Senate, it said that every voice in this chamber would be heard. In the throne speech it said that every member who represents Canadians will have their say, yet so far, not many voices in this chamber have been heard. Those voices were even echoed at committee, yet the Liberals, through the committee, decided that they would not accept any of the amendments.

I am pleased to say that there are a couple of amendments that we will be voting on this evening. One is from the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands. This motion was moved to remove the provision of the bill that states that the national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians is not protected by parliamentary privilege. This is an amendment that is easily supportable, because the committee proposed by the legislation would make any type of disclosure or whistle-blowing from the proposed committee liable to prosecution under the Security of Information Act. That is a critical element.

The member for Beloeil—Chambly is also proposing an amendment to the motion, and this amendment to the motion is due for consideration because it would partially stifle the Liberal attempt to remove powers of the proposed committee. That really is the basis of concern with respect to this piece of legislation. Just what powers will the committee have, and how much of that power will be controlled by the Prime Minister's Office?

The other area of concern, and it has been mentioned several times, is that the committee chair has already been appointed. The committee chair was known a year ago, even before this legislation came to Parliament. Do we know the qualifications of the chair? Is this just a partisan play, in saying to a member that the member will not be in cabinet but will be put in charge of this important committee? It is not a committee of Parliament but effectively is turning out to be a committee of the Prime Minister's Office. Will it be a political arm of the Prime Minister's Office? A fair question for Canadians to ask is, what are the qualifications of the members who are going to be on this committee?

We on this side of the aisle understand how important it is for government to look after the safety and security of its citizens. Many times in the history of this Parliament it has been argued, and I would argue the same thing, that this is the number one priority of government.

The committee will view a lot of information, but unfortunately the truth is that it is not going to get to see all the information that it needs. In order for the committee to be effective, in order for it to achieve its objective as a true national security committee of Parliament, it needs as much information as it can get.

Furthermore, the committee should report to Parliament. Parliament represents Canadians. We are the ones that the committee should report to.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I will take this opportunity to emphasize how important this legislation is. We went through a process at committee stage. The member made reference to the number of people who spoke to this legislation. Well over 40 members have spoken to the bill here in the House, not to mention the over 120 opportunities for people to get engaged in the House. There was plenty of feedback at committee stage.

All the fine work that has been done has led to a number of amendments that ultimately have given more strength to the legislation. I wonder if the member could provide some comments in terms of the effectiveness of the committee at proposing amendments.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as we have heard throughout the day, many of the more significant amendments to this piece of legislation were rejected by the Liberal majority on the committee.

This speaks to the issue of the openness of this Parliament. As I said earlier, the Prime Minister said that members of the House will have a voice for Canadians, but that voice is being denied because of the actions of the Liberal government.