Bill C-369 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code (National Day for Truth and Reconciliation)

This enactment amends certain Acts to make National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, observed on September 30, a holiday.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-369, An Act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code (National Day for Truth and Reconciliation), be read the third time and passed.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, today I rise to speak to Bill C-369, an act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code, national day for truth and reconciliation. This was introduced by the member representing Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River.

This bill proposes to amend the relevant legislation in order to establish a paid non-working holiday for all employees under federal jurisdiction. The goal of the bill is to create a statutory holiday that would become a day for truth and reconciliation in order that all Canadians might have some time to reflect on the history and the legacy of Indian residential schools and the deep wounds that have been created in our past and that persist today.

Renewing the relationship with first nations, Inuit and Métis is a priority for Canada and all Canadians. As members know, the Prime Minister has said that there is no relationship more important to this great nation than the one with indigenous peoples. I am confident that we can chart a path to a better, more inclusive future that acknowledges our past and looks forward to building a stronger Canada that we can all reside in together, in a manner that is not only conducive but inclusive to all Canadians.

The work that was done by Canada's Truth and Reconciliation Commission has provided us with a way forward to address indigenous issues in a Canadian society. The commission's final report sets aside a series of 94 calls to action that address a number of important issues, including call to action 80, which states:

We call upon the federal government, in collaboration with Aboriginal peoples, to establish, as a statutory holiday, a National Day for Truth and Reconciliation to honour Survivors, their families, and communities, and ensure that public commemoration of the history and legacy of residential schools remains a vital component of the reconciliation process.

The government remains committed to implementing the recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission as partners in reconciliation and, most important, resurgence.

While it is easy to support the commission's recommendations in principle, the more difficult work comes in taking concrete action, but we are intent on walking the path toward reconciliation together.

Over the past three months, the Standing Commission on Canadian Heritage heard from survivors, leaders of national indigenous organizations and other key stakeholders during the review of the bill. Survivors shared very moving and difficult testimony regarding the history and impact of Indian residential schools. There was also discussion of the importance of giving Canadians opportunities to move together on the journey of reconciliation. It is extremely important that we move together, nation to nation, shoulder to shoulder.

Education, reflection and remembrance are essential components of the reconciliation process. Creating a national day for truth and reconciliation on September 30 will set aside a special day for commemoration and for honouring those whose lives were affected by residential schools. As well, it would also create a space for all Canadians to have important conversations about the dark chapters in our history and to acknowledge that reconciliation is a process that we all do together. As well, it would acknowledge the harm done to first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples.

With just over half of Canadians familiar with residential schools and their lasting impacts, a national day for truth and reconciliation would, in my opinion, improve Canadians' understanding of this legacy of loss.

I applaud the initiative put forward in the bill by the hon. member for Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River. I would also like to recognize the work of those in the community and throughout this great nation who have taken steps to rebuild relationships and further reconciliation. I applaud those who at the grassroots level have shared their stories and helped teach us about our past.

We should all be moved by people like Phyllis (Jack) Webstad and the story of her orange shirt. Her story is remarkable but it is not unique. On her first day of school, Phyllis arrived proudly dressed in her new orange shirt. They made her change out of her clothes. Her orange shirt was taken from her and she never saw it again. That orange shirt is now a symbol of the stripping away of culture, of freedom and of self-esteem that was experienced by indigenous children over generations.

During its mandate, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission engaged extensively with the community. It was guided by principles that ensured broad representation. The commission was advised by a committee of Indian residential school survivors and it travelled to all parts of this great nation to hear from thousands of indigenous peoples who were affected by residential schools, to document their experiences and also to gather ideas that would help to move the reconciliation process. The 94 calls to action are a result of this process.

There have been over the past months a number of petitions expressing support for the creation of a day highlighting reconciliation. We hope that the bill will be a first step toward establishing a holiday that encourages all Canadians, from coast to coast to coast, to take time to reflect on our journey of reconciliation with indigenous peoples, to gather together to honour survivors of residential schools, their families and their communities, and to encourage public commemoration and promotion of the shared values of inclusion and of mutual respect.

Let us make sure that the spirit of reconciliation is part of nation building and our national values. In this way, I believe we can aspire to an outcome that is aligned with the commitment to renew the relationship between Canada and indigenous peoples, based on recognition, based on rights, based on respect and based on co-operation.

It is obvious that for too long, first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples have had to fight for rights and recognition. We know that we must make this recognition the basis for all relations with indigenous peoples. The bill represents an ideal way to commemorate and recognize their experience. I am therefore pleased to contribute to today's debate and to call upon the House to support the bill. This support is a part of the work that helps us build a Canada that includes every one of us.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-369, An Act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code (National Indigenous Peoples Day), as reported with amendment from the committee.

Canadian Heritage

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 17th report of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage entitled “Bill C-369, An Act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code (National Indigenous Peoples Day)”.

The committee has studied the bill and has decided to report it back to the House with amendments.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Scarborough—Rouge Park, Lib.]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Just to add a bit of context to Mr. Blaney's reference to the intention of the bill, I would like to quote from Ms. Jolibois' intervention with respect to Bill C-369, when she was here:

Over your study of Bill C-369, you're going to be hearing a lot of remarks about residential schools, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action...specifically call to action number 80 from the TRC, which calls for a national day of truth and reconciliation to honour survivors, their families and their communities so that the legacy and history of residential schools is never forgotten.

It was in the spirit of call to action 80 that I proposed my bill. I understand that it doesn't meet the exact wording of the call to action, but I do believe my bill fulfills its intentions.

Her intention, then, is quite clear, and I think similar statements were made in the House by a number of speakers, including those around the table. I'm assured, then, that this is something that is within the scope of the bill, and therefore amendments thereto should not be an issue.

With respect to conversations regarding the amendments, I think we've had discussions with Ms. Jolibois with respect to all the amendments, including the one that is referenced as amendment LIB-0.1. We've had discussions on it. She was, in fact, supposed to send us a follow-up on that this morning—I can show you the text message. I had conversations with her this morning, and they were relayed to our team.

There was a bit of uncertainty as to her understanding of what it meant, and I was able to add some context to it. If you actually read the amendment, it's quite clear that it just adds more context to the bill in relation to what we heard from the various witnesses, particularly the last witnesses, the ITK, as well as NWAC. I believe it's in that spirit that this amendment is being brought forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We'll mark the beginning of meeting 140 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Today we are doing the clause-by-clause of Bill C-369.

I would like to welcome, as assistance for us, from the Department of Canadian Heritage, Andrew Campbell and Stefan Van Doorn. We also have, from the Department of Employment and Social Development, Sébastien St-Arnaud and Kelly Winter. Thank you for joining us today.

We will now begin. You all have seen the amendments that have been circulated. I will begin with new clause LIB-0.1. Would anyone like to speak to that?

[Steven Blaney, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Hello to my fellow members and thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Obed, your vision is very inspiring. I have no doubt there is an appetite in Canada for an all-encompassing and positive vision of indigenous communities, be they first Nations, Métis or Inuit. That’s why we supported this bill. I listened carefully to what you and Ms. Lomax said.

As a former veterans affairs minister, I used to take part in National Indigenous Peoples Day celebrations on June 21. Here, in Ottawa, we would honour the contribution of indigenous peoples in times of conflict and war, at a ceremony held right next to the National Aboriginal Veterans Monument. It was an opportunity to recognize the contribution indigenous people made for our freedom.

On July 1 last year, I witnessed the paradox of a touching moment while in Beaumont-Hamel, France. I learned that, on that day, Newfoundlanders close all their shutters in the morning, for a half day of sadness to recognize the sacrifice of a generation of Newfoundlanders, whose lives were brutally cut short during the First World War. In the afternoon, however, Newfoundlanders celebrate the province’s union with Canada. It is that sort of paradox we have to deal with.

What I now realize is that June 21, the day currently designated National Indigenous People’s Day, is not a holiday. You are teaching us a lot this afternoon. We also learned that no consultations were held on Bill C-369, in its current version, and now there is talk of two days instead of one. How do we balance remembrance and celebration? We don’t know what the date should be. June 21 strikes me as an appropriate day to bring Mr. Obed’s vision to life. I’d like to hear your thoughts, but I just wanted to share my comments with you.

At this point, adding another day so there are two holidays would essentially distort the bill. We would have to either go back to the drawing board or hold more consultations. After listening to everything that’s been said today, I have more questions than answers, but I’d like to give you the remainder of my time to share your thoughts.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I invite you all to grab your earpiece. The lower switches are the ones switching to English and French. Eventually, we may have first languages in the translation services. We actually do have that now in the new House of Commons, which is great news.

I would like to refer everyone to my colleague Ms. Georgina Jolibois’s very short bill, entitled An Act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code (National Indigenous Peoples Day). In the summary, it states that the “enactment amends certain Acts to make National Indigenous Peoples Day a holiday.”

That’s the issue we need to focus on. We’ve talked a lot about this over the past few months. I recall my fellow member, Mr. Blaney, raising the issue of Remembrance Day. Members on both sides spoke passionately on the subject. They all wanted to pay tribute to our armed forces but wondered whether it was a good idea to establish a holiday.

Frankly, this isn’t about selecting a date—granted, we do have to choose one, of course. Ms. Lomax pointed out that we wouldn’t consider combining Canada Day, July 1, with Remembrance Day.

I’m worried about the issue getting bogged down; it’s important to move forward. We’ve heard a range of views, and, yes, there is a risk in terms of combining the days. We need to consider whether designating June 21 as the new holiday is appropriate when orange shirt day exists as well.

Mr. Obed and Ms. Lomax, I’d like you to talk more about that. As you clearly pointed out, Ms. Lomax, we would never consider combining Remembrance Day and Canada Day, a day of celebration. Do you think we should proceed?

I’m worried because the end of the parliamentary session is looming, so I want to make sure that the bill comes to fruition at the end of all this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We are going to begin now. We are here for the 138th meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. Welcome to everyone. Welcome back and to our new meeting space here in the West Block.

We are continuing our study today of Bill C-369, which is on a national indigenous peoples day. We have with us from Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, ITK, the president Natan Obed and political adviser Tim Argetsinger. We have with us from the Native Women's Association of Canada, Virginia Lomax, legal counsel, and Casey Hunley, policy adviser.

We'll go in the order that you appear on the agenda. We will begin with ITK.

[Derrick Hynes, President and Chief Executive Officer, Federally Regulated Employers - Transportation and Communications]

Good afternoon and thank you, Chair.

I represent FETCO, Federally Regulated Employers-Transportation and Communications. Our members are all federally regulated firms operating under the Canada Labour Code. We've existed as an employers' association for over 30 years. Our members are generally large employers within the federal sector.

To give you a sense of colour for who they are, we represent major airlines such as Air Canada, Jazz Aviation and WestJet; telecommunications firms including Bell, Telus, Shaw and Vidéotron; railways including CN, CP and VIA Rail; the ports, the Maritime Employers Association in Montreal, the B.C. Maritime Employers Association in Vancouver; and all the major courier companies in Canada, including Canada Post, UPS, FedEx and Purolator.

FETCO is pleased to submit comments on Bill C-369, regarding National lndigenous Peoples Day. As you know, in its final report the Truth and Reconciliation Commission included 94 recommendations in order to redress the legacy of residential schools and advance the process of Canadian reconciliation. Today we are here to talk about recommendation 80 around a statutory holiday.

I would like to first say that FETCO members are unanimously and strongly supportive of the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. Reconciliation with Canada's indigenous people is most appropriately a high priority of government and members are supportive of these important efforts.

FETCO represents some of Canada's largest employers with operations providing key products and services to Canadians from coast to coast to coast. Members share the government's commitment to reconciliation.

In its outreach to Canadians, your committee has requested feedback from a wide range of stakeholders on what a national indigenous peoples day should look like. Below are some specific comments from FETCO, on behalf of a large majority of federally regulated employers who are all captured by the Canada Labour Code, where this legislative requirement will reside.

FETCO members support a day being set aside to celebrate and recognize Canada's first peoples and to reflect on the unfortunate legacy of the residential school system. Members believe that healing is required between Canada's indigenous and non-indigenous people and a specific day to recognize this is appropriate, as noted by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

FETCO has no specific comments on what should specifically be included in this important day of commemoration. This is a question best answered by those for whom this day is going to be set aside, that is, Canada's indigenous people. Employers will support the direction recommended by those most affected. We do suggest that government engage stakeholders in a consultative dialogue on recommended courses of action in the event our members have value to add to this important conversation.

FETCO members do not believe it is necessary to add another general holiday, in other words, a paid statutory holiday, to the Canada Labour Code to accomplish this important goal. Currently, the code provides nine statutory holidays. Most FETCO members, as a result of previous negotiations with employees and unions, exceed this minimum number. FETCO employers typically provide between 10 and 13 paid holidays throughout the year. Adding an additional paid holiday to the Canada Labour Code represents substantial productivity losses and business cost increases for Canadian businesses. We do not feel these concerns are in any way inconsistent with our support for the concept of a day being set aside.

Employers in the federal sector have seen significant change in the past three years that has had business cost and productivity loss implications. Two weeks ago, while responding to another parliamentary committee on the most recent budget bill, we stated the following:

Over the past three years, enormous workplace changes have been introduced via the legislative and regulatory process that amount to major cost pressures for business. In the past three years, the following have been introduced (or are currently being contemplated): paid personal leave, family responsibility leave, expanded vacation leave, caregiver leave, indigenous practices leave, leave for victims of domestic violence, medical leave, changes to the EI program, accessibility legislation, flexible work arrangements, pay equity, termination compensation and elimination of wait periods for certain compensatory benefits. On an individual basis (in isolation), each of these changes could be justified. But the cumulative cost effect of these changes on employers is consequential. To FETCO, it seems contradictory for government to be engaging in a national dialogue on concepts like business investment, workplace productivity and economic competitiveness while simultaneously driving up the cost of doing business. FETCO believes it is reasonable to demand that business cost implications receive greater attention from government when workplace changes are introduced.

A paid general holiday can be a double-edged sword from a business perspective. Consider the fact that FETCO members represent some 500,000 employees, or over half of all the private sector employees in the federal sector. Consequences of a paid day off are twofold.

First, it means that most employees are not at their jobs, representing a substantial productivity loss for companies operating in an intensely competitive global marketplace. Customers go elsewhere when a business is not available.

Second, many FETCO members are continuous operations given the essential services they provide. Airlines, railways and marine vessels do not typically stop on a statutory holiday. Those employees obliged to work on those days are paid a premium to do so, so not only are companies paying some employees to not be at work, but they're also providing extra compensation to others to be there.

Our members respectfully suggest that there are other options to consider when setting aside the appropriate time to show respect and reverence for this important issue, outside of paid day off for all employees. If the purpose of National Indigenous Peoples Day is to raise awareness of this issue which contributes to ongoing reconciliation, we're not convinced that a paid holiday is going to achieve this important objective.

Thank you.

[Mojdeh Cox, National Director, Anti-Racism and Human Rights, Canadian Labour Congress]

Thank you.

It's an honour to speak after such powerful and moving testimony. Thank you for your presence here as well.

I would like to first acknowledge that this is the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people. We recognize and deeply appreciate the historic connection to this place. We also recognize the contributions that Métis, Inuit and other indigenous peoples have made in shaping and strengthening our country.

Thank you for the opportunity to present today on Bill C-369, an act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code.

My name is Mojdeh Cox. I'm here in my capacity as national director for anti-racism and human rights at the Canadian Labour Congress. The congress is the largest labour body in Canada, representing over three million working people.

I will be sharing the time today with my colleague, Ron Rousseau, who will introduce himself momentarily.

First nations, Métis and Inuit peoples in Canada have been subject to gross human rights violations throughout history. Statistics today point to the great need for reconciliation and for a deeper understanding of generational trauma. There is also a great need for people in Canada to deepen their understanding of their resilience and share in celebrations for first nations, Métis and Inuit cultures.

In September 2017, at the United Nations, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made a compelling statement about Canada's long and complicated interaction with first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. In his own words, he delivered hard truths about the legacy of colonialism, the paternalistic Indian Act, forced relocation, marginalization and abuse of Inuit communities, and the disgrace and mistreatment of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and their families, scratching only the surface of the root causes of generational trauma haunting first nations, Métis and Inuit communities.

Since then, the government declared reconciliation with indigenous communities to be a priority for Canada. With Bill C-369, there is an opportunity to turn that language around reconciliation into action.

There may be objections to Canada needing another statutory holiday. To respond to this reluctance, it is critical to take a comparative perspective. Compared to other advanced industrial countries and its most important trading partners, Canada offers relatively few public holidays. Adding another statutory holiday would simply move Canada into the mainstream of OECD comparator countries. Furthermore, Canada will join countries such as Australia, Brazil, the U.S. and New Zealand in formally recognizing indigenous peoples nationally.

As mentioned by the previous speaker, in response to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's call to action number 80, Canada is to designate a day to remember residential schools and reflect on the generational trauma this colonial tactic imposed on indigenous communities for generations.

National Indigenous Peoples Day, June 21, can mark this day as the national statutory holiday to do just that. Although, as the former speaker said, we're not here to particularly advocate for one day over the other, we do feel that taking away from the presence and the sea of orange that we see on September 30 across communities and in schools would really take away from that profound movement that was built on one story and has touched so many people in changing our narrative around reconciliation.

With that said, National Indigenous Peoples Day on June 21 can be that day for us. This day, which marks the summer solstice, has distinct cultural significance for the very communities we aim to honour. It is a day of celebration, setting the stage to change the narrative on Canada's first nations, Métis and Inuit peoples.

An Angus Reid Institute public opinion survey report pointed to a deep gap between what government must do in the spirit of reconciliation and what Canadians really think about the state of indigenous people. A statutory holiday where celebration is the primary focus will make way for everyday people in Canada to engage with indigenous cultures and practices in a way that is inviting and reflects their values across diverse cultures.

Humanizing the plight of first nations, Métis and Inuit peoples is a natural first step to not only participate in reconciliation figuratively, but more literally and in the spirit of many calls to action in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report recommendations. One of the most gripping quotes from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report states, “Too many Canadians know little or nothing about the deep historical roots of these conflicts”, referring to the violent and catastrophic legacy of colonialism in Canada. It goes on to say that this lack of knowledge has serious consequences for first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples, and for Canada at large. If that doesn't make a more compelling business case for why this is a need, I don't know what will.

We don't have to decide whether people in Canada engage with this statutory holiday by celebrating or by reflecting and commemorating. It does not have to be about either-or. We only must decide that the lip service we have paid to real reconciliation calls for action, and action now.

As part of the efforts to foster reconciliation in our workplaces and communities, the Government of Canada must develop a strategy to encourage people in Canada to participate in celebrations taking place on June 21. There is a need for a public awareness strategy to deliver hard truths in the same manner as Prime Minister Justin Trudeau delivered them at the United Nations.

People in Canada deserve truth, even when the truth is uncomfortable, and they deserve truth on multiple occasions. Indigenous, Métis and Inuit peoples in Canada deserve reconciliation. As per the TRC report, reconciliation “is about establishing and maintaining a mutually respectful relationship between [indigenous] and [non-indigenous] peoples in this country. For that to happen, there has to be awareness of the past, acknowledgement of the harm that has been inflicted, atonement for the causes, and action to change behaviour.” We can do that through celebration, in light of change and progress, and moving forward with June 21.

[Phyllis Webstad, Founder and President, Orange Shirt Society]

Thank you and good morning. Weyt-kp, hello to everyone. My name is Phyllis Webstad. I'm from the Stswecem’c Xgat’tem First Nation, the Canoe Creek/Dog Creek First Nation, in Secwepemc, Shuswap, territory. Stswecem'c Xgat'tem is approximately one and a half hours southwest of Williams Lake, B.C.

Kukstemcw, thank you for the invitation to speak on Bill C-369, regarding National Indigenous Peoples Day.

It is my story of losing my shiny orange shirt that has spread across Canada and beyond. September 30, Orange Shirt Day, is bringing awareness of the history of Indian residential schools and the impact on the generations. It is a day to honour residential school survivors and their families, and remember those who never made it home or have since passed.

Orange Shirt Day is all about reconciliation. It was born out of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the TRC, event in Williams Lake, B.C., in May 2013. Our theme was “Remembering, Recovering and Reconciling”. First nations, local government, schools and the RCMP all came together to hear the truth from residential school survivors. Chief Justice Sinclair challenged us to keep the conversation happening after the TRC event in May 2013 was over. I was part of the planning for our TRC event, where I told my story of my orange shirt for the first time.

In July 1974, I turned six years old. The age of six was when children in my family were taken away, and I was no different. My grandmother, whom I lived with until the age of 10, brought me to town, to Williams Lake, to choose something for my first day of school. I picked out a shiny orange shirt. When I got to the residential school, my clothing was taken away and I never wore my shirt again. That was the story that I told at our TRC event.

We picked September 30 because September was the time when children were taken away from their homes. We chose the 30th to give teachers time to settle into their classrooms, to prepare an event and to teach the children about the history of residential schools. At the last TRC event in Vancouver in May 2013, I heard an elder say that September was “crying month”. I knew then that we had chosen the right day. If September 30 falls on a weekend, the schools or communities can have the event before or after the 30th.

Our slogan, “every child matters”, comes from my story of how I felt, at residential school, that I didn't matter. When we talked more about it, we realized it fit for all residential school survivors, that they matter as children being taken away. It also fit for those children who never returned home. They matter, too. On the day of reconciliation, every child matters. It fits in the current day, and it's inclusive of all people to find a better way forward together.

This past year I published a book. This is the French version. It's called The Orange Shirt Story. It's available in English, French and Shuswap. It was on the bestseller list in Canada for most of September.

Regarding TRC recommendation number 80, I've gone over and over the wording of the recommendation, and it is specific to residential schools. June 21 is a day of celebration, and a celebration of indigenous peoples overall. It's an overarching day for indigenous people. Orange Shirt Day on September 30 is a fit for the implementation of TRC call to action number 80, as Orange Shirt Day is a day to honour and remember residential school survivors and their families and those who have passed on. I'm not here to advocate for any particular day. Both days are important.

Honourable members, we the Orange Shirt Society hope you decide that Orange Shirt Day will be a nationally recognized day. September 30, 2019 will be the seventh Orange Shirt Day.

Kukstemcw. Thank you for having me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Can I just put this budget to a vote so that we can give it to the clerk?

Is everyone in favour of proposed budget for Bill C-369?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I will pass it on to the clerk to answer the questions about how he organized this budget for Bill C-369.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Now we're going to do a little committee business.

I will start telling you what this is, and perhaps you can share.

We have before us a request for a budget for Bill C-369. Can you please take a look at it? When your friends come back, we can vote on it. Thank you.

Let's do this quickly, because I know people want to move on.

Go ahead, Mr. Shields.