Bill C-11

Online Streaming Act

An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts

This enactment amends the Broadcasting Act to, among other things,
(a) add online undertakings — undertakings for the transmission or retransmission of programs over the Internet — as a distinct class of broadcasting undertakings;
(b) specify that the Act does not apply in respect of programs uploaded to an online undertaking that provides a social media service by a user of the service, unless the programs are prescribed by regulation;
(c) update the broadcasting policy for Canada set out in section 3 of the Act by, among other things, providing that the Canadian broadcasting system should
(i) serve the needs and interests of all Canadians, including Canadians from Black or other racialized communities and Canadians of diverse ethnocultural backgrounds, socio-economic statuses, abilities and disabilities, sexual orientations, gender identities and expressions, and ages, and
(ii) provide opportunities to Indigenous persons, programming that reflects Indigenous cultures and that is in Indigenous languages, and programming that is accessible without barriers to persons with disabilities;
(d) enhance the vitality of official language minority communities in Canada and foster the full recognition and use of both English and French in Canadian society, including by supporting the production and broadcasting of original programs in both languages;
(e) specify that the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (the “Commission”) must regulate and supervise the Canadian broadcasting system in a manner that
(i) takes into account the different characteristics of English, French and Indigenous language broadcasting and the different conditions under which broadcasting undertakings that provide English, French or Indigenous language programming operate,
(ii) takes into account, among other things, the nature and diversity of the services provided by broadcasting undertakings,
(iii) ensures that any broadcasting undertaking that cannot make maximum or predominant use of Canadian creative and other human resources in the creation, production and presentation of programming contributes to those Canadian resources in an equitable manner,
(iv) promotes innovation and is readily adaptable toscientific and technological change,
(v) facilitates the provision to Canadians of Canadian programs in both official languages, including those created and produced by official language minority communities in Canada, as well as Canadian programs in Indigenous languages,
(vi) facilitates the provision of programs that are accessible without barriers to persons with disabilities,
(vii) facilitates the provision to Canadians of programs created and produced by members of Black or other racialized communities,
(viii) protects the privacy of individuals who aremembers of the audience of programs broadcast, and
(ix) takes into account the variety of broadcasting undertakings to which the Act applies and avoids imposing obligations on any class of broadcasting undertakings if that imposition will not contribute in a material manner to the implementation of the broadcasting policy;
(f) amend the procedure relating to the issuance by the Governor in Council of policy directions to the Commission;
(g) replace the Commission’s power to impose conditions on a licence with a power to make orders imposing conditions on the carrying on of broadcasting undertakings;
(h) provide the Commission with the power to require that persons carrying on broadcasting undertakings make expenditures to support the Canadian broadcasting system;
(i) authorize the Commission to provide information to the Minister responsible for that Act, the Chief Statistician of Canada and the Commissioner of Competition, and set out in that Act a process by which a person who submits certain types of information to the Commission may designate the information as confidential;
(j) amend the procedure by which the Governor in Council may, under section 28 of that Act, set aside a decision of the Commission to issue, amend or renew a licence or refer such a decision back to the Commission for reconsideration and hearing;
(k) specify that a person shall not carry on a broadcasting undertaking, other than an online undertaking, unless they do so in accordance with a licence or they are exempt from the requirement to hold a licence;
(l) harmonize the punishments for offences under Part II of that Act and clarify that a due diligence defence applies to the existing offences set out in that Act; and
(m) allow for the imposition of administrative monetary penalties for violations of certain provisions of that Act or of the Accessible Canada Act .
The enactment also makes related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Well, I would like to say to you that as a chair I take my orders from the committee, and a unanimous motion was passed, which is setting the tone for how we deal with this particular issue on Bill C-11.

As far as I'm concerned, that unanimous motion has now achieved what it asked for, so we are now ready to move into amendments and into clause-by-clause. I think that is what we should be talking about, and not going back on a motion that had already been unanimously approved.

I would also like to point out to the committee that there's a hard stop for the minister at 5:45.

Thank you very much.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

And then, yes, of course, that brings us to this place in time, where I have put forward an amendment. Of course, that amendment asks for a more reasonable allotment of time for the deadline for amendments to Bill C-11 to be due at committee. We've asked that they be due three days before the start of clause-by-clause—which seems fairly reasonable—because, of course, we want to make sure that we've heard from all of the witnesses before we are expected to hand in amendments. We want the right allotment of time to be able to go through the testimony we've received at this committee. There have been many important voices that have been heard here. But then in addition to that, there are also voices that have not been heard at this committee, voices that have not been given an opportunity to come and to testify.

Madam Chair, do you wish to speak?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, thank you.

I believe, then, with the committee's having agreed to 20 hours of testimony, it's not a maximum of 20 hours. It's not a hard stop at 20 hours. It's just simply that 20 hours is the starting point.

In fact, I can recall that there was discussion around this motion that we could take a closer look at it after we had heard from witnesses for that duration of time. If we deemed it necessary, perhaps we could expand it then. That was part of the conversation that ensued around this table. Of course, it was done in good faith.

It would appear that the good faith is no longer good, because there is no longer a willingness from my counterparts at this table to have the discussion around hearing from more witnesses. I believe that is very sad. We still have 33 witnesses who have not been heard just from the Conservative's list. Then we have more witnesses who were submitted by other colleagues at this table who have not been heard.

I believe it is incumbent upon us to be as thorough as we can possibly be. It would be very nice to hear from more witnesses. I don't believe that this request is unreasonable. Again, there are many times when a committee sets out with an intention and with an understanding, again taken in good faith, that the work of the committee can be reassessed or re-evaluated, and tweaks can be made along the way as more information is granted.

In this case, I think, sure, we're coming to the end of our time. Unfortunately, my colleagues at the table have decided to move this motion in the middle of hearing witness testimony. It was first moved when we had stakeholders at the table. Now it continues to be discussed while we have the Minister of Heritage at the table. Again, no doubt, that's a bit of a quarterbacking effort by the Liberal MPs at this committee.

Also, it's interesting to me that my NDP colleague Mr. Julian.... I moved a motion that pertained to Bill C-11 at another committee, and witnesses were present, and he was quite cruel in many of the words he spoke at that time. I won't repeat all of them, because certainly many of them would be unparliamentary—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Sure, Madam Chair. I'd love to. Thank you.

The amendment I have moved is that the deadline for the amendments be three days before the start of clause-by-clause. Of course, we're talking about the time frame that is being granted in order to bring forward those amendments that we might have for Bill C-11.

Madam Chair, you'll recall that this committee agreed to hearing from witnesses for a minimum of some 20 hours. Actually, further to that, the motion, in its original form, said four meetings for five hours each. Obviously, that form has not been followed. We did not do four meetings at five hours each. The meetings have been more sporadic and for a lesser amount of time. Nevertheless, we're in good faith honouring that, but the original motion was for a minimum of 20 hours of witness testimony—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We have the minister here and we shall begin.

Welcome, Minister, to the heritage committee. We're discussing, as you well know, Bill C-11. You have five minutes to present, please, Minister.

[Alexie Labelle]

It reads that “That the deadline for amendments on Bill C-11 be at 4 p.m. on Friday, June 3, Eastern Time.”

In French, the motion reads: « Que la date limite pour les amendements de C-11, Loi modifiant la Loi sur la radiodiffusion et apportant des modifications connexes et corrélatives à d'autres lois, soit le vendredi 3 juin 2022, à 16 heures (HE) ».

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you.

I hear my colleague Ms. Thomas, and even though we differ on a lot of things, I can't imagine for a second that this little sentence is not clear in her mind and that it needs so much clarification.

Her colleague Mr. Patzer himself said earlier that the minister had arrived and that we wanted to ask him questions. We have witnesses here to whom we also want to ask questions. We have a very simple motion before us, which simply states that the deadline for tabling amendments is Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My goodness, my colleague is not doing herself any favours by asking for clarification on this.

I am appealing to the common sense of my conservative colleagues, out of respect for the witnesses who are here today to answer important questions on Bill C-11, so that we can put to a vote the motion that has been tabled and finally move on.

[Daniel Therrien]

It is urgent, to say the least, and should have been done some time ago. I think the government knows there is a problem with trust in the digital economy. That is why Bill C‑11 was introduced at the time. We had certain concerns about the content of the bill.

As to the private sector, the act is 40 years old, and 20 years old for the private sector, preceding the creation of Facebook by five years. The world has completely changed since these laws were passed and there is obviously an urgent need to update them.

[Daniel Therrien]

If we're talking about the private sector, I would refer you again to the two-page key recommendations, including primarily reintroducing in the law the requirement that consent requires the consumer to have knowledge and understanding of the purposes for which the information is about to be used. That requirement was omitted from Bill C-11, and I think that's an important problem. It would not lead to meaningful consent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I will respond.

There is no need, because the issue that we are discussing in the order of business is Bill C-11. The motion pertains to Bill C-11. There is no need to give 48 hours' notice in both languages for this. When a motion is simple—and it is my understanding that this is a very simple, a one-sentence motion.... Most people will understand what it is by now, because this is going to be the third time we're hearing this motion.

When a motion is very long and complicated, it is necessary for people to read it, because they may not understand everything that has been said. As a chair, I make that decision based on the complexity and length of the motion, as opposed to a very short and simple motion that we are now hearing for the fourth time.

Thank you.

Please continue, Mrs. Thomas.

[Daniel Therrien]

We're at the analysis and conceptual stage, obviously, and we're not hiring anyone because there's no legislation that has been adopted, but again, I thought it would be important not to be caught off guard and to think internally how we would we organize and what kinds of professionals we would we need to exercise this or that new responsibility, including adjudication, so that if a new legislation contains similar provisions as Bill C-11, we would have a head start and might be able to hire people, develop procedures and develop policies.

One area where we intend to do some work is again on this question of order-making and adjudication. That activity will most likely require rules of practice, which will have an impact on the regulated entities, who obviously will want us to act fairly in adjudicating complaints. We have started to give some thought to what would be the adjudication process so that we can consult stakeholders as to whether we have it remotely right, and that would accelerate the adoption of these rules.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Actually, Madam Chair, I'd just like to get a clarification from Mr. Bittle, because he proposed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-11. When does he intend that the committee begin clause-by-clause? Is he proposing that it start on Monday? Is that the date he has in mind?

I will resume after his answer, please.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

With regard to the bill, presently there is no policy directive that has been given to the CRTC. In other words, Bill C-11 is vague in some areas, and it will be left up to the CRTC to determine how they are going to apply the bill at large.

Without a policy directive, it is impossible for the CRTC to understand what the minister's intent is. Now, the minister is saying that will come later, and he's asking Parliament to trust him as he requests that this legislation be moved forward. However, that seems out of step. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

My first question is for Mr. Goldberg.

Mr. Goldberg, I'm wondering if you can just talk to me a little bit about the work you do on behalf of Canadian consumers and how Bill C-11 might impact them and what your concerns are around that.

[Andrea Kokonis, Chief Legal Officer and General Counsel, Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada]

Thank you and good afternoon. My name is Andrea Kokonis. I am general counsel at SOCAN. I am pleased to appear before this committee in support of Bill C-11, the online streaming act.

SOCAN congratulates the government on the tabling of Bill C-11. The bill delivers on the minister's promise to regulate online streaming services while excluding its application to individual content creators. This represents a big step in the right direction for Canadian creative sector and for Canadian audiences.

Modernizing Canada's broadcasting legislation today is necessary. The Broadcasting Act was enacted long before the Internet became a dominant platform for the delivery of music. Online streaming has experienced explosive growth in recent years, but Canadian songwriters and composers are not benefiting from that growth. This inequity is due in part to the fact that the streaming services that have benefited greatly from operating in Canada are not required to contribute to Canadian culture.

SOCAN itself has experienced considerable growth in revenues from online streaming. In 2021, SOCAN collected $416 million on behalf of Canadian and foreign rights holders, of which $100 million was from digital sources. SOCAN's collections from digital platforms will soon overtake collections from more traditional sources, such as radio and television. Unfortunately, only a fraction of this digital licensing revenue stays in Canada. For every dollar generated from Canadian TV and radio broadcasters, approximately 34 cents is distributed to Canadian songwriters and composers. But of the revenues generated from online streaming services, only 10 cents is distributed to Canadians.

The situation is even more dire for francophone songwriters and composers who receive only 1.8 cents per dollar generated from online streaming services as compared to 7.4 cents from Canadian broadcasters.

The difference between broadcasting and online revenues that flow to Canadian songwriters and composers is due at least in part to the fact that streaming services are not required to support or promote Canadian creators to Canadian audiences. The market alone has not and will not solve this problem. Only legislative reform can do that, and the online streaming act sets the stage.

Online streaming services like traditional broadcasters must contribute to Canadian culture by participating in financial support programs that help foster the creation of Canadian music. Online streaming services like traditional broadcasters must also participate in the promotion of Canadian music. Canadian content must continue to hold a prominent place for Canadian audiences whether broadcast on television, radio or streaming platforms.

Foreign streaming giants that benefit from unfettered access to Canadian audiences should be supporting our cultural community and the next generation of Canadian songwriters and composers. As online streaming becomes the dominant medium for music distribution, that support becomes even more important. It is vital to the survival of our culture and our cultural sovereignty.

Canadian music creators need to be actively promoted by the streaming services that provide content to Canadian audiences. Promotion helps Canadian songwriters, composers and music publishers find an audience and generate revenue for themselves so they can reinvest in others.

Viewer choice is not enough and frankly misconstrues the role that online streamers play. Online platforms already decide who to promote and who to demote on their services. They already play those curatorial and editorial roles and should fulfill those roles by showcasing Canadians to Canadians. Online platforms must help emerging Canadian talent get discovered and reach Canadian audiences. It is not just Canadian songwriters and composers who will benefit; listeners will too. We all benefit when our cultural policies reflect and encourage the Canadian experience and the creation and dissemination of Canadian stories and songs.

We implore the government to require streaming services to play their part in making it easier to find Canadian music and stories on online platforms in Canada.

SOCAN does not propose any amendments to Bill C-11. The bill must remain broad so that it can adapt to future online services, the models of content delivery from which are not yet known. A bill that is tailored only to services in operation today or that carves out specific services as they exist today will not be flexible enough or have staying power for the future of broadcasting online.

For all of these reasons, we urge the government to pass Bill C-11 as soon as possible. The creative industry is an important economic sector in our country. The best way to support it is through legislative reform and the online streaming act.

Thank you for your consideration. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.