Bill C-22

Canada Disability Benefit Act

An Act to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act

This enactment establishes the Canada disability benefit to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of working-age persons with disabilities. It sets out general provisions for the administration of the benefit and authorizes the Governor in Council to implement most of the benefit’s design elements through regulations. It also makes a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act .

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Gammad, you mentioned the gender lens, diverse genders and trans persons with disabilities. This voice is often not involved in the making of legislation and is often not at the decision-making tables. I also note that LEAF is doing some work around basic income. I'm wondering if you have any best practices or things that you can share with us about how we can get those voices included.

Right now what's in Bill C-22 doesn't necessarily regulate or ensure that those voices will be part of the co-creation. I'm wondering how we can ensure as legislators that those voices are included in the making of regulations and make sure that this voice is not missed.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much to our witnesses.

I'm very fortunate to have worked with Easter Seals over my career and have lots of personal connections to people living with intellectual disabilities as well and have been able to work with them throughout my career. I know how important the work is that you guys and Jen from LEAF are doing. Thank you for what you're doing.

I want to use this six minutes as efficiently as we can. I think we all know that this bill needs to get passed. We all know there is a crisis. I want to dig into the amendments. What things do we need to fix? I know we want to pass the bill quickly, but the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance, the AODA Alliance, watched our committee on Tuesday, and they were concerned.

I'm going to go to Amélie.

One of their concerns is, “Minister Qualtrough tried to defend the Federal Government's choice to enact what they call 'framework legislation' that leaves it to future regulations to sort out all the details.” They went on to say, “What this boils down to is the Government does not want to debate and publicly vote in Parliament on any specifics about the Canada Disability Benefit...”.

What would you recommend? We want to move on it quickly and we want to make sure that it's done properly so that the people who are impacted the most.... What amendments to Bill C-22 would you recommend right now?

[Jen Gammad, Communications and Advocacy Manager, Women's Legal Education and Action Fund]

Good evening, committee members, and thank you for inviting me here today.

My name is Jen Gammad. I am the communications and advocacy manager at the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund, or LEAF for short.

I am grateful to be calling in from Tkaronto, known as Toronto. This land is governed by the dish with one spoon wampum belt covenant.

LEAF is a national charity that works towards ensuring that the law guarantees substantive equality for all women, girls, trans and non-binary people in Canada.

LEAF is here today as an organization allied to disabled communities and organizations that advocate for them. Disability justice is gender justice. Our struggles cannot be separated. We recognize that it is because of the tireless advocacy of these communities that this bill exists in the first place.

I would also like to thank Dr. Sally A. Kimpson, disability scholar and advocate, who authored LEAF's report, “Basic Income, Gender & Disability.” LEAF's brief, which we have submitted to the committee, and our position are based on her work.

It is our position that Bill C-22 must be passed as quickly as possible. Disabled women, trans people and non-binary people are among the poorest people in Canada, and they cannot afford to wait any longer.

Make no mistake: Disability poverty is gendered. Reports show that as high as one in three women with disabilities lives in poverty. On average, they make less than disabled men and non-disabled women. Disabled women who are single, single parents, indigenous, racialized, working class and/or newcomers live in the deepest poverty.

Safety is an often-overlooked basic need that is threatened by both ableism and poverty. Disabled women are twice as likely as non-disabled women to be subjected to violence. They are subjected to a wider range and subtler forms of violence, such as caregiver neglect. For those financially dependent on their family, spouse or caregiver, which may often be the case, it may be impossible to leave a violent or abusive situation.

Disability poverty is a vicious structural cycle that contributes to substantive inequality. Without financial security, disabled women and trans people are deprived of and further excluded from a range of cultural, economic, educational, political and social activities and exposed to more violence. Poverty takes away choice, and policy failures create and exacerbate such conditions.

I will touch on existing disability supports in Canada and how they fail to meet the needs of disabled women and trans people.

Disabled women are three times more likely to rely on government transfers than their non-disabled counterparts and more likely than disabled men. However, this country's current provision of supports keeps women, trans and non-binary people poor. For example, the largest source of income for low-income, working-age, disabled women in Canada is from government transfers, mostly provincial or territorial disability benefits, which make up over three-quarters of their total income on average, yet all provincial and territorial support amounts are set far below the market basket measure for their region, and that's not even accounting for the extraordinary costs of being disabled.

Dr. Kimpson accurately described Canada's current range of disability supports as “a fragmented and uncoordinated patchwork of supports” with differing eligibility criteria amounts, types of benefits and definitions of disability. Many find the process of accessing existing supports confusing, which can discourage folks from applying at all.

The Canada disability benefit, if designed and implemented correctly, provides an opportunity to reach more people who need it, to be less stringent and complicated to apply for than existing benefits and to lift disabled people out of poverty— so how do we get there? The cost of living is skyrocketing, and disability supports continue to stagnate. We cannot delay action any longer.

LEAF urges this government to pass Bill C-22 without delay and ensure that disabled communities lead the design, implementation and evaluation of the benefit.

We amplify the demands of disability rights organizations such as Disability Without Poverty and say that what matters most here is that we get the CDB rolled out as soon as possible and that it's done in collaboration and co-development with disabled people and disabled women who have the expertise to ensure that people don't fall through the cracks.

Such a benefit would be dignity-enhancing. It would promote autonomy. It would reduce the substantive inequality that disabled women and trans people face. Most of all, it would give them more choice in how they want to live their lives.

Thank you.

[Samuel Ragot, Senior Policy Analyst and Advocacy Advisor, Quebec Intellectual Disability Society]

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

I would now like to address the importance of working with the provinces and territories. As you know, the provinces and territories all have financial assistance programs for persons with disabilities. It is therefore crucial the federal government works with provincial and territorial governments to avoid penalizing beneficiaries and to avoid disengagement of local governments in the social protection and financial security of persons with disabilities.

In Quebec, as of January 1, 2023, we will have a basic income program, a first in Canada and probably in the world. While this program is not perfect, and we continue to advocate with the provincial government, we must protect it and ensure that the Canadian benefit will not work against local programs in the provinces and territories and, most importantly, that it will actually help those who need it. So far, we are pleased with the approach taken.

We have news from the Quebec government. I spoke to the ministers yesterday, who told us that they were quite supportive of a complementary benefit to provincial programs. So we're satisfied with that collaborative approach, and we will obviously support all the steps taken in that direction. We are confident that such negotiations are possible. We have seen other cases where this has been successful.

In addition to working with the provinces and territories, we think it is equally important that the Canada disability benefit be fully individualized, that it be a cheque for each person and that it should not take into account the income of spouses in order to limit issues of financial dependency, that it should provide a real way out of poverty, and that it should allow people to work without any clawbacks. We think it's a matter of dignity.

In fact, the current provincial and territorial programs are mostly punitive. They are not really aimed at the well-being of individuals, but rather at the minimal maintenance of living conditions. It is imperative to move away from this vision of welfare, which has been described as

“welfarization” of disabilities.

All these fundamental, but very technical elements—emphasis on the word “technical”—should be discussed in the regulatory process and not through amendments to Bill C‑22.

[Amélie Duranleau, Executive Director, Quebec Intellectual Disability Society]

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Chair, allow us to thank you for your invitation.

My name is Amélie Duranleau, and I'm the executive director of the Quebec Intellectual Disability Society. With me is Samuel Ragot, who is a policy analyst at the society and a doctoral student at McGill University's School of Social Work, working on financial security for persons with disabilities. We are very pleased to be here to share our thoughts on Bill C‑22.

First, we must emphasize that we are very much in favour of the swift passing of Bill C‑22, as it is a once-in-a-generation opportunity.

Of course, we are aware that legislators may find voting on a foundational bill, which contains few details, uncomfortable. However, we believe that this is the right thing to do.

On the one hand, consultations with the disability community are still ongoing and will provide key information and expertise. On the other hand, we have had successful experience in developing regulations in relation to a framework legislation in the context of the basic income program in Quebec. In this context, all the modalities of operation had been excluded from the law. We eventually worked with the provincial government for almost four years to come up with a set of regulations that were satisfactory to the majority of the parties involved. As a result, the timeline it set for itself has been met.

In the case of the Canada disability benefit, we think the timeline will be shorter, as many of the consultations with the provinces and territories are already well under way. Since it's possible to achieve success when we work together towards common good, we are confident that this approach is also achievable for the Canadian benefit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Welcome back.

The committee will resume its study of Bill C-22, an act to reduce poverty and support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making consequential amendments to the Income Tax Act.

To assist the interpreters in their work, I kindly remind all members and witnesses appearing today to introduce themselves when speaking and to speak slowly. Nobody did that in the first round.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for the meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen if you're appearing virtually of either “floor”, “English”, or “French”. Please wait until I recognize you before speaking.

For those participating via video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly.

I want to emphasize that we are doing interpretation and interpretation in sign language as well.

I would like to welcome our witnesses to begin our discussion, with but before I do, I forgot to acknowledge Ms. Shelby Kramp-Neuman, who joins us this afternoon. Mr. Morrice is going to join us as well.

From Easter Seals Ontario, we have Alison Morse, senior manager for efficacy and family engagement.

From the Quebec Intellectual Disability Society, we have Amélie Duranleau, executive director, and Samuel Ragot, senior policy analyst and advocacy advisor.

From the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund, we have Jen Gammad, communications and advocacy manager.

We will start with Ms. Morse for five minutes, please.

Go ahead, Ms. Morse.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to continue on the issue of the urgent need for action and the call for parliamentarians to pass Bill C‑22 as quickly as possible.

We hear and understand the call, because what is being sought is in the title of the bill: reducing poverty and supporting the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit.

However, I would like you to give me your opinion, because this bill is a framework bill that talks about what you are talking about, which is having an adequate income, applying the principle of complementarity with the provinces and having a benefit that does not deprive recipients who are already receiving support for their disability. None of that is provided for in the bill. For us, as parliamentarians, this part of the bill is a blank page. What's more, the bill provides that anything you want will be done by regulation. We asked Minister Qualtrough how long it might take to implement this bill, and we haven't received any indication.

Why is it important that the regulations be implemented with the participation of all the organizations representing people with disabilities? It means that there will be delays.

Do you think we'll be able to act on it with a deadline that is perhaps very tight?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you.

I was watching the news a few days ago. They were talking about Bill C-22, and someone used the word “lifesaver” in many ways. When you talk about choice and dignity, recovering independence and real choices, it just says to me as a parliamentarian that we have to ensure that this is a non-partisan issue with a non-partisan approach and that we work together on this committee to get it done as quickly as possible and support that framework that the minister believes can take us there quickest.

I want to say thank you for your time for being here today and for the work both of your organizations do and you do individually.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That's great.

This idea of co-creation has come up before in testimony here. Again, in Bill C-22, we don't see it actually written into regulation that there needs to be a co-creation piece.

Mr. Gladstone, would you support an amendment that explicitly says this needs to be jointly fashioned with the disability community?

Mr. Neven, I would ask you that same question.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I've heard from a number of women and women living with a disability that they're concerned that it will be a household measurement or that they won't have the autonomy that they deserve in Bill C-22. Do you see any space in Bill C-22 where their autonomy would be at risk because it's not really written into the bill at this point in time?

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Right. Was that on Bill C-22, though, or was that on a separate housing initiative?

[Gary Gladstone, Head of Stakeholder Relations, Reena]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

My name is Gary Gladstone. I am the lead of stakeholder relations at Reena as well as the convenor of the Intentional Community Consortium.

Reena, celebrating our 50th anniversary next year, promotes dignity, individuality, independence, personal growth and community inclusion for people with diverse abilities within a framework of Jewish culture and values. Open to all, Reena provides supportive housing, programming and employment services to over 1,000 individuals with developmental disabilities, including autism and those with mental health challenges.

The Intentional Community Consortium represents 26 agencies that are advocating and building not-for-profit, deeply affordable housing for the most vulnerable in society: those with developmental disabilities.

Reena is the fourth-largest developmental service provider in Ontario, currently operating 32 group homes and supporting an additional 140 individuals in supported independent living units. There are 252 community participants in our daily programming, with over 700 full- and part-time employees. Reena has an overall budget of $75 million.

On behalf of those we support with varied abilities and specifically those with developmental disabilities and severe mental health challenges, I am pleased to be present to support Bill C-22, an act to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act. I request that this legislation be passed as soon as possible, with a tight timeline of six months to complete regulations.

As I thank Minister Carla Qualtrough for bringing this important legislation forward, I would also like to thank all members and parties in the House for expediting this bill through the House to committee to have a full discussion.

About 100,000 Ontario adults have a developmental disability. Eighteen per cent to 30% of people in homeless shelters have a developmental disability. Fifty per cent of those with developmental disabilities live with significant medical issues. Ninety per cent of those with developmental disabilities live below the poverty line and require deeply affordable rent for adequate housing, with supports that amount to about $522 in Ontario. Women with a developmental disability are 65% more likely to experience abuse than a typical female.

Honourable members of the committee, as I have said to you before, there is a waiting list of over 40 years for housing with supports for those with developmental disabilities, although things are getting a bit better, thanks to the targeted carve-out of the national housing strategy for this targeted vulnerable community.

Bill C-22 is a vital piece of legislation that will impact the lives of those we support and those with disabilities from coast to coast to coast. We need to pass this legislation as soon as possible with all-party support so that we can immediately get working on the regulations that will address critical issues about the design and structure of the benefit.

I would urge that the following be in the regulations. Number one is a safeguard against provincial and territorial government clawbacks, as we want to ensure that there is a net benefit and that there will not be a clawback from the provinces of any additional funds provided by the federal government.

Number two is indexing for inflation. As inflation and the increased cost of living are on everyone’s mind now, it's imperative that any benefit be indexed to the rate of inflation.

Number three is that we would also like to see representatives from the disabled community at the table when decisions are made with respect to Bill C-22, as well as all disability acts and regulations.

It's imperative that we enact the bill and work on the regulations immediately so that we can get the benefits out to the most vulnerable, those who need them now, as soon as possible. Reena and the Intentional Community Consortium recommend that a deadline for the recommendations and actionable items be no more than six months.

In preparation for this presentation, I have read briefs from many outstanding organizations in the disability sector. I would like it noted that Reena and the Intentional Community Consortium share some of the concerns of the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance. We would like them addressed—without slowing down the passage of this legislation, when possible—within six months, to ensure that the benefit gets out the door as soon as possible.

“A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members” is a quote attributed to Mahatma Gandhi. Through the proposed act, you can ensure that Canada takes care of those who cannot advocate for themselves. With your support, we need to ensure that those with developmental disabilities are never left behind again.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak in support of Bill C-22 with the request that it be quickly passed into law, with unanimous all-party support, with regulations brought forth within six months.

For further information on Reena and the consortium, please visit our website, www.reena.org. Thank you very much.

[Jeffrey Neven, Chief Executive Officer, Indwell Community Homes]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As you mentioned, my name is Jeff Neven and I am the CEO at Indwell.

Indwell is a Christian charity that creates affordable housing communities that support people seeking health, wellness and belonging. Our three core values are dignity, love and hope.

We serve more than 1,200 people with housing and support programs in southwestern and southern Ontario. These include places like Hamilton, London and Kitchener-Waterloo, and smaller communities like Woodstock, Norfolk County and St. Thomas.

One in five people in Canada lives with a disability, and over one million Canadians with disabilities live in poverty. As a leading provider of supportive affordable housing for people with disabilities, Indwell walks alongside many vulnerable Canadians whose income bears no resemblance to the actual costs of living.

In Ontario, for example, the current housing allowance for a person receiving the Ontario disability support benefit is $522 per month. The complete disconnection between the provided housing allowance and the actual cost of housing has produced homelessness, an impossible demand for specialized housing and an oversubscription of every housing subsidy program.

Indwell supports the immediate introduction of the Canada disability benefit act as a vital tool to promote the choice and dignity of Canadians with disabilities. We firmly believe that every Canadian deserves the opportunity to access quality housing of their choice. When Canadians have enough income to access the necessities of living, it creates a pathway for recovery and independence. Adequate income support that matches the cost of living increases opportunities for people with disabilities to make real choices about where they live.

As a supportive housing provider, we also recognize that chronically low disability benefits contribute to the increased cost of providing quality and deeply affordable housing and supports. Currently in Ontario, people with disabilities can cover only a small portion of the actual cost of their housing, requiring reliance on limited subsidy programs and resources. In terms of housing development, this severely impacts the ability of any developer to create a suitable and sustainable business case for housing geared to people with disabilities. When people have the opportunity to purchase their housing from the market, it will fuel the construction of new affordable housing stock by both the non-profit and for-profit sectors.

We strongly support the Canada disability benefit act as a high-impact opportunity to change the lives of people with disabilities in Canada. We strongly encourage the government and all members of Parliament to act and to implement this program.

We believe the impact of this program will be significant if the benefit amount is in keeping with the actual costs of the necessities of life, if the program functions as a direct increase in income with no provisions for clawbacks from any provincial income programs, if housing allowance programs are indexed to current available market rents, if individuals receiving the benefit are empowered to use their income freely and if implementation of the program does not replace existing housing subsidy programs.

In conclusion, the Canada disability benefit act has the potential to transform the lives of those living with disabilities by pulling thousands out of poverty and affirming their human dignity. In addition, it will bring the for-profit housing sector back into providing housing solutions for thousands of Canadians.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this important bill.

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 42 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person and remotely by using the Zoom application.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would ask you to please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating virtually, please use the “raise hand” function. Before speaking, click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike. When you are done speaking, please put your mike on mute to minimize interference.

For those in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. Your microphone will be controlled by the proceedings and verification officer. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order. We appreciate your patience and understanding.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available by choosing either English or French if you're attending remotely. I would also advise that unless there are exceptional circumstances, I will recognize those appearing virtually only if they have an approved House of Commons headset.

I would also remind you that screenshots are prohibited when the meeting is in session. Should any technical issues arise, please advise me and we'll suspend for a few minutes to ensure that everyone may participate fully.

Pursuant to order of reference of Tuesday, October 18, 2022, the committee will resume its study of Bill C-22, an act to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act.

I would like to take a moment to remind those participating in today's meeting as well as those observing the proceedings in person on video that the committee adopted a motion on Monday, October 24, 2022, that included instructions for the clerk to explore options to allow for the participation of all witnesses and members of the public in the context of the consideration of Bill C-22. In planning inclusive and accessible meetings, the committee has made arrangements for sign language interpretation in both American Sign Language and Quebec sign language for those witnesses appearing in person, and by Zoom for those individuals in our audience.

The sign language interpreters are being video recorded to be incorporated into a video recording of the proceedings today. That would be made available at a later date on ParlVU via the committee's website. To assist the interpreters in their work, I kindly ask all members and witnesses appearing today to introduce themselves when speaking. When I recognize you, before you begin, introduce yourself and speak slowly.

Finally, if a member of the audience requires assistance at any time, please notify a member of the staff or the committee clerk.

I would like to inform all members that the witnesses appearing virtually today have completed the technical test to check their connectivity and equipment.

I would like to welcome our witnesses to begin our discussions with five minutes of opening remarks, followed by questions.

We will begin with Indwell Community Homes and Jeffrey Neven, chief executive officer.

From Reena, we have Gary Gladstone, head of stakeholder relations.

We have Vincent Calderhead, legal counsel, appearing as an individual, but we have not been able to connect with him at this time.

I will start with five minutes for Jeffrey Neven, chief executive officer of Indwell Community Homes.

Mr. Neven, you have the floor.

Indigenous Disability Awareness Month

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Speaker, November is Indigenous Disability Awareness Month. Many may be surprised to know that indigenous people have rates of disabilities three times higher than the average Canadian, many times without the support that many Canadians enjoy. However, they are some of the most resilient, kind and humble people in our communities.

One particular constituent comes to mind, and I would like to acknowledge Keenan Denny, fondly known in the Mi'kmaw community of Eskasoni as “Jinko”.

Despite having been diagnosed with BBS at the age of 15, Jinko has never let his disability stand in the way of his daily walk with the use of a cane to pick up the mail, or a visit with neighbours while fundraising for the National Institute for the Blind. From time to time, Jinko may fall, but he always gets up. He knows that he has a community that supports him, and so will the government that I am proud to stand with as we put forward the first-ever federal disability benefit in Canadian history with Bill C-22.

For all of the resilient indigenous people with disabilities in Canada, November is our time to recognize them, appreciate them and ensure that we take the necessary steps to help them.