Bill C-22

Canada Disability Benefit Act

An Act to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act

This enactment establishes the Canada disability benefit to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of working-age persons with disabilities. It sets out general provisions for the administration of the benefit and authorizes the Governor in Council to implement most of the benefit’s design elements through regulations. It also makes a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act .

[Michelle Hewitt, Chair, Board of Directors, Disability Without Poverty]

Thank you for inviting us to speak today.

My name is Michelle Hewitt, and I am the chair of Disability Without Poverty. With me is Rabia Khedr, the national director of Disability Without Poverty.

We come before you today to talk about the Canada disability benefit bill, Bill C-22, and the need for it to reach disabled people living in poverty as quickly as possible, including Black, indigenous and racialized people with disabilities, who are even further marginalized in our society.

The statistics relating to disabled people living in poverty are appalling. There are twice as many disabled people living in poverty than those who are not disabled. This is Canada in 2022. No one deserves to live in poverty, and certainly not from the lottery of life that saw them born with a disability or acquire one later on.

Disabled people do not live in poverty because they are worthless to society. It is quite the opposite; it is because their worth is not valued. In fact, people with disabilities contribute over $47 billion to the Canadian economy.

Being disabled is not cheap. Tylenol goes from being a headache pill to a daily pain control medication. Our most personal daily activities, like toileting, are not free. I have a friend who waited three years for a replacement power wheelchair through her provincial program, only to find that the only wheelchair offered does not fit her. It's way too big.

We talk about lifting disabled people out of poverty, but what does that really mean? Canada's official poverty lines use the market basket measure, which fails to take disability into account.

We hear the stories of disabled people living in poverty on a daily basis, as they are our friends and family. We can tell you about the man who approached Rabia in the parking lot of a grocery store offering to swap bus tickets for food, or my friend who lives month to month with MAID approved, wondering if this month will be her last because she can't afford to live.

Throughout these hearings, you are going to hear many unique stories about disabled people living in poverty, but there will be a common theme. We are all united on the fact that there needs to be an end to disability poverty, and that the time is now.

On October 19, we had the honour of being in the gallery when the vote for second reading of Bill C-22 took place in the House. It was very emotional for the 10 members of our delegation to see the unanimous vote unfold in front of us. We are here today to ask that you continue in that spirit of bipartisanship to move this bill along to third reading, get unanimous support there, pass it to the Senate with all speed and ultimately have it receive royal assent.

We believe that this benefit will be most effectively delivered if the details are co-created with disabled people like us. That collaboration cannot happen in this committee, in the House or the Senate. It can happen only in the development of regulations with disabled people as equals in that process of collaboration.

Take a second to reflect on that person in your life that you have crossed paths with who is disabled. Ask yourself what they need this committee to do.

Right now, they need you to move this framework legislation on. Implore your parliamentary colleagues to do the right thing for disabled people by continuing that bipartisanship and moving it through third reading unanimously, with no further debate. Tell your colleagues on the finance committee that they must put money in the spring budget of 2023 to start paying this benefit out in the fall of 2023. Urge the civil servants working on the implementation of the benefit to ask themselves if the processes they create truly benefit disabled people, or if they are caught up in the old ways of ableism that are so endemic in our systems.

Time is of the essence. Food inflation is at 11.6%, yet provincial disability payments are not index-linked. This means that in real terms, disabled people fall further behind every day.

There is yet another hard winter in front of disabled people, but you have the power to make sure it is the last one with so many living below the poverty line. Thank you.

[Thomas Simpson]

Thank you, Bryanna.

Committee members, I ask you to consider several recommended changes to help strengthen Bill C-22.

First, a Canada disability benefit must be implemented in tandem with a national employment strategy for persons with disabilities. This will ensure that the CDB does not keep people with disabilities who can work trapped on social assistance. The CDB must be designed to be a trampoline from poverty to employment rather than a net to catch people. This strategy must target employers and highlight the benefits of hiring people with disabilities, inclusive of sight loss.

While seniors are eligible for OAS and GIS, disability and poverty do not magically go away at age 65. In some provinces, once an individual reaches 65, some of their provincial supports end. For example, the guide dog benefit under the ODSP, which is an extra $84 per month to help with the cost of a guide dog, ends at age 65. Seniors with sight loss in Ontario must cover alone those costs that had been subsidized. Members of this community should remove references to age restrictions within the legislation.

As Bryanna and I work with our Come to Work program, we see first-hand how current and inadequate provincial and territorial disability support programs disincentivize people from finding employment for fear that they will lose their essential medical services or other benefits associated with provincial programs. Quite simply, this legislation needs to address this and ensure that money or other benefits are not clawed back in a way that disincentivizes people who can work and want to work.

This legislation will confirm important elements of the CDB within regulation. The CNIB recommends that the legislation be amended to require that these regulations are adopted within one year of the legislation coming into force, to ensure no delay for the millions of Canadians waiting for this program.

Finally, we believe that the Canada child benefit is a program that the CDB should mirror. The Universal Child Care Benefit Act, the legislation that governs the Canada child benefit, spells out the amount that the program must remit to Canadians. CNIB suggest that Bill C-22 be amended to identify a mandatory minimum that people with disabilities will receive from the CDB.

In conclusion, the CNIB is supportive of Bill C-22. It must be passed and implemented as quicky as possible. The CNIB would also like to publicly support the briefs provided by the AODA Alliance and the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians.

We'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

[Thomas Simpson, Executive Director, Public Affairs, Canadian National Institute for the Blind]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Thomas Simpson. I'm the executive director of public affairs and Come to Work at CNIB. Joining me today is my colleague Bryanna Regimbald, a coordinator with our Come to Work program.

For 104 years, CNIB has been the largest organization supporting Canadians who are blind or partially sighted. We offer emotional and social support programs for those with sight loss, from coast to coast to coast. CNIB is pleased to appear before HUMA today in support of Bill C-22. Our testimony represents the feedback and opinions of the sight loss community, based on extensive consultation CNIB undertook this year.

Let me be clear. People living with a disability need the Canada disability benefit, and we're pleased to see legislation introduced that removes people with disabilities from poverty. Today we will provide an overview of why people who are blind or partially sighted need this benefit, and we'll offer considerations to strengthen the legislation.

I'll turn it over to my colleague.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Welcome back.

The committee will resume its study of Bill C-22, an act to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act.

To assist the interpreters in their work, I kindly remind all members and witnesses appearing today to introduce themselves when speaking and to speak slowly.

To the witnesses appearing virtually or in the room, you may choose to speak in the official language of your choice. If interpretation services are interrupted, please get my attention. We'll suspend while it's corrected.

Please wait until I recognize you before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. Please mute yourself when you are not speaking. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I will now welcome our witnesses to begin the discussion. We have five minutes for opening remarks, followed by questions.

From the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, we have Thomas Simpson, executive director of public affairs and Bryanna Regimbald, program coordinator; from Disability Without Poverty, we have Michelle Hewitt, chair, board of directors and Rabia Khedr, national director; from the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada, we have Julie Kelndorfer, director of government relations and advocacy and Marie-Ève Simard, marketing and communications director.

We will start with Mr. Simpson for five minutes.

Mr. Simpson, you have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Again, thank you, Minister and departmental staff, Mr. Conrad and Ms. Wilcox.

This concludes the first hour of the committee's hearing on Bill C-22. We'll suspend for a few minutes while we prepare for the witnesses for the second panel.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

The Bill C-22 wider consultation.... Why didn't that consultation make it into the bill, even around the eligibility factor, which the disability community is widely agreed on, and other...?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Minister, you mentioned that Bill C-22 consultations were wide and vast. I'm just wondering why that didn't make it into the bill. That's my first question. Then I have one quick question after that.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I am happy to provide this committee with a list of all the consultations for both Bill C-81 and Bill C-22, because I would suggest it was the most rigorous and fulsome consultation and conversation that any government has ever had on disability in the history of our country.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'm Rosemarie Falk, member of Parliament for Battlefords—Lloydminster, in Saskatchewan.

Thank you, Minister, for taking the time to be here with us today.

We know a benefit for persons with disabilities has the potential—and you've touched on this—to significantly improve the financial and overall well-being of many Canadians. As costs continue to soar and affordability is on everyone's mind, we know there is even greater financial pressure for Canadians with a disability, who already have a higher cost of living. While there seems to be general agreement on the stated intent of Bill C-22, which is the legislation before us, it really is just a shell, which I would say is another word for a framework. All the critical details of this bill have been omitted.

It's very reminiscent of when this committee studied Bill C-22 in the 42nd Parliament. That was when your government chose, once again, to exclude any teeth from the legislation and leave it all up to the regulations.

My question, Minister, is this: Why did you decide to exclude all the critical details from the legislation and ultimately shield it from the scrutiny of Parliament?

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Louise Chabot, member of Parliament for Thérèse-De Blainville, in Quebec.

Minister, thank you for being here with us today to answer the many questions that we have about the bill. You were correct in thanking all parties for supporting this bill in the House so that it could be studied here at the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

You said in your opening statement that your objectives are clear. I tend to agree. The goal is to reduce poverty without creating a race to the bottom. That being said, for the parliamentarians who will have to vote on the bill, there is something awkward from a democratic standpoint. Most of the bill, except for the objectives, will be implemented through regulations.

For example, subsection 11(1) mentions eligibility criteria for a Canada disability benefit. However, we do not know what the criteria are. We also do not know the amount of the benefit or how it is calculated. Both of these elements will be implemented through regulations. Without any more details, passing this bill would be akin to giving the government a blank cheque.

You tabled Bill C‑35, and then Bill C‑22 a year later. We know why Bill C‑35 did not go any further.

It would be important for us to know two things. First, regarding the poverty line, do you have a minimum amount in mind? Second, you said in your speech that a lot of people have an annual income of $12,600 and that the poverty line ranges from $19,000 to $25,000. What is your department planning to do to actually lift people out of poverty? Surely you must have some idea.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

You know, we did a lot of thinking around how we would structure this legislation that would ultimately become law.

Very early on, in working towards what is now in front of us as Bill C-22, we recognized fundamentally that we needed to reflect in our process, as well as our outcomes, our commitment to “nothing without us” and ongoing engagement with the disability community. We needed to put ourselves in a strong position, almost strategically, in dealing with the provinces and territories, the complexity of their systems and how this benefit would interact.

We wanted to find the quickest way forward, the fastest way to put money in people's hands, and that's why we determined that framework legislation was the best vehicle to achieve those three outcomes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Assuming Bill C-22 becomes law, how long will it be before persons with disabilities receive the benefit?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

That's a really important question.

As I explained, we are working, at this stage, to create the legal framework for Bill C-22. In subsequent stages, based on feedback from the disability community and working in collaboration with the community and provinces and territories, the amount will be established through the regulatory process. Our common goal, of course, is to lift people out of poverty. We know what people are getting across the country in social assistance. We're trying to fill the gap, not only between what they get in social assistance and poverty, but also in the time frame between people's getting the Canada child benefit and the OAS and GIS.

Very loosely speaking, we want the benefit to be fair. We want it to be consistent across the country. We want it to be accessible—

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Minister of Employment]

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, committee members.

I would like to thank the committee for its work to create a more inclusive country for persons with disabilities. I also thank all parties for supporting Bill C‑22 at second reading.

Colleagues, you have before you legislation that is very straightforward in both its objective and its format. Bill C-22 would create the new Canada disability benefit, a monthly supplemental income payment modelled after the GIS and to be paid directly to working-age, low-income persons with disabilities. The objectives of Bill C-22 are poverty reduction and financial security. The harsh reality is that working-age persons with disabilities in Canada are twice as likely to live in poverty as those without. Approximately one in four working-age persons with disabilities lives below the poverty line.

Many persons with disabilities in Canada experience a modest level of financial security for the first time in their adult lives when they turn 65 and have access to OAS and GIS. The poverty level drops by over 60% for persons with disabilities between the ages of 64 and 65—from 23% to 9%. I know you all agree that is unacceptable—not the poverty drop, but the fact that it was 23%.

The Canada disability benefit would be established and implemented through Bill C-22, which is the legal framework to create the benefit, and a subsequent public regulatory process through which the specific details of the benefit would be established. This is by design. This is intentional. This approach recognizes the important role the disability community must play in this process, as well as the complexity of existing provincial and territorial disability service and support systems.

Let me back up for a moment. From the outset, I have had two priorities in developing this benefit: first, that the disability community be involved at every stage of the process, and second, that there be rigour in dealing with provinces and territories, in order to ensure that people are better off and that existing benefits and services are not clawed back.

To my first priority, we worked very closely with the disability community. The principle of “nothing without us” is embedded in Bill C-22. The Accessible Canada Act requirement that persons with disabilities be involved in the development and design of laws, policies, programs and services is embedded in Bill C-22, and Canada's obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities are embedded in Bill C-22.

We invested $12 million over three years in budget 2021 to work with the disability community on the design of the proposed benefit. We did an online survey, held roundtables and other forms of consultations. We also funded national disability organizations to engage the community directly.

We will not impose upon this community, and we will not create a race to the bottom.

Stakeholders such as Inclusion Canada have made it clear they don't want decisions being made without the disability community's meaningful participation. People First of Canada raised the key principle of having people with intellectual disabilities at the table during the design stage of the benefit. Disability Without Poverty wants this legislation to pass quickly through Parliament and is eager to participate in the regulatory process, so that a range of lived experiences are heard and listened to. There are more.

We've worked with the community at every step and will continue to engage, seek input from and respond to the community through this and every subsequent phase of benefit development and delivery, including the regulatory process.

With respect to my second priority, it is through the work with the provinces and territories where the rubber hits the road on both the delivery and potential impact of this proposed benefit.

Bill C‑22 recognizes the leading role that the provinces and territories play in providing supports and services to persons with disabilities. Each jurisdiction in Canada has a unique policy environment with respect to disability benefits and supports.

Quite frankly, I cannot overstate the complexities of the systems we are working with. There are 13 different provincial and territorial systems in play, each with its own combination of supports and services. Some are grounded in legislation or regulations, while others are related to program delivery. There are different definitions of “disability” and a variety of eligibility criteria, not only across jurisdictions but also within them.

In some cases, eligibility for one disability program opens up access to another. In other cases, being enrolled in one disability program can exclude individuals from accessing others, or reduce the benefits provided. Across jurisdictions, there are differences in the treatment of other forms of income, different reduction rates and different treatment of spousal or family income and support.

For example, Alberta has a benefit structure focused on people with severe disabilities. Clients must be substantially limited in their ability to work, and their disabilities must qualify as likely to be permanent. The benefit dollar is significant, and couples can retain more than twice as much employment income as singles before they start to lose benefits.

Ontario provides broader, less targeted assistance. Qualifying disabilities need not be severe and can affect work, personal care or participation in community life. The disability must be expected to last at least one year. Benefits are calculated on a family basis. The employment income exemption is calculated separately for each member of a couple.

The Northwest Territories provides benefits that are geared to the high cost of living in the north. Eligibility is based on the ability to perform the activities of daily living. Benefit amounts cover the actual cost of low-cost shelter and utilities, with no fixed cap. Employment income exemptions are household-based.

These are just three of the 13 we're working with in here.

Bill C-22 grants the authority to enter into agreements with provinces and territories to carry out the purposes of this act. That's really important. The CDB is intended to supplement existing provincial and territorial support, not replace it.

Within this complex ecosystem I just described, we really need to harmonize our systems to ensure that there are no clawbacks and that everyone who receives the CDB is better off. This means ensuring that income supports are not negatively impacted and that eligibility for related services and programs is not negatively impacted. We need to lift people up. We need to lift people out of poverty. Across Canada, most disability programs and income benefit amounts leave recipients well below the poverty line. The average total annual income of working-age persons with disabilities who receive social assistance is $12,600. This comes nowhere close to the national poverty line, which ranges from $19,000 to $25,000 per year, depending on where you live.

I'm pleased to report that work with the provinces and territories is going well. There's an FTP work plan that all jurisdictions have agreed to. PTs are very supportive of the framework legislation approach. They appreciate and understand that there's no one-size-fits-all that will optimize the impact of this new federal benefit within the complex array of provincial-territorial systems, and they share our commitment to making people better off and lifting people out of poverty. This is really important. We absolutely need flexibility in working with the provinces and territories. I'll note quickly that we're also working across the Government of Canada on federal benefit interaction.

Colleagues, we have the opportunity for a once-in-a-generation change here. With Bill C-22, we are doing things differently on purpose. Bill C-22 will allow us to work collaboratively with the disability community, as well as with the provinces and territories, to ensure that the benefit achieves its objective of reducing poverty among working-age persons with disabilities.

I'd be happy now to take your questions.

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The clerk has advised me that we have quorum. I will call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 41 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. Today's meeting is again taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. People are attending in person and remotely using the Zoom application.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For those participating virtually, please use the “raise hand” icon. Before speaking, click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike. For those in the room, it will be controlled by the proceedings and verification officer. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. If translation is interrupted, please get my attention. We'll suspend while it is being corrected. I would remind all participants that when the meeting is in progress, no screenshots shall be taken.

Pursuant to the order of Tuesday, October 18, 2022, the committee will commence its study of Bill C-22, an act to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act.

I would like to take a moment to remind those participating in today's meeting, as well as those observing the proceedings in person and on video, that the committee adopted a motion on October 24 that included instructions for the clerk to explore options to allow for the full participation of all witnesses and members of the public in the context of consideration of Bill C-22. In planning inclusive and accessible meetings, the committee has made arrangements for sign language interpretation in both American Sign Language and Quebec Sign Language for those witnesses appearing in person and by Zoom, and for those in our audience. The sign language interpreters are being videorecorded to be incorporated into the archived video recording of the proceedings, which will be made available at a later date on ParlVU via the committee's website. To assist the interpreters in their work, I kindly ask all members and witnesses appearing today to introduce themselves when speaking, and to speak slowly.

Finally, if a member of the audience requires assistance at any time, please notify a member of the staff or the committee clerk.

I would like to inform all members that the witnesses appearing virtually today have completed the technical test to check their connectivity, equipment and verification for interpretation in both official languages.

I would like to welcome our witnesses to begin our discussion with five minutes of opening remarks.

It is our pleasure to have with us in the room today the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion, and from the departmental staff, Alexis Conrad, senior assistant deputy minister, income security and social development branch and Policy Horizons Canada. Appearing virtually is Krista Wilcox, director general at the office for disability issues.

We'll start with Minister Qualtrough for five minutes, at which time I will open the floor for questions from the members.

Yes, Madam Gray.